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Old November 1st, 2017, 01:39 AM   #201
Kpc21
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And it turns out that the replacement buses, even though they had over half shorter times in the timetable, have had delays reaching even 1 hour. Mainly because of the traffic jams on the border of Zgierz and Łódź (it's a narrow throat where the 2x2/4x1 road is narrowed down to 2x1).
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Old November 1st, 2017, 11:30 AM   #202
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So a tram service with maybe some kind of skip-stop solution would be the fastest?
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Old November 1st, 2017, 07:13 PM   #203
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Just now, the best solution would be a tram to Zgierz. Theoretically it could reach to the Przedmieście stop, just after which there is a catenary division, but it would need bidirectional trams and the depot which services the line to Ozorków (Telefoniczna) hasn't got enough of them. The other one (Chocianowice) has, but MPK probably doesn't want to make a shift, because the Chocianowice depot is on the other end of the city.

And there is no place for the bus to do a U-turn in the neighborhood of this tram stop.

The line 46 could also go on the standard route to the Kurak stop, and then go to the Kilińskiego square in Zgierz, same as the line 45 (then there would be no need for bidirectional rolling stock), and then the bustitution would have to start at the Kurak stop. And theoretically there is even a bus loop there, but... the unions in the MPK demand that there must be a social point for the drivers (where they have conditions to wait, to eat something etc.) at least at one of the terminal stops, and there is no such one at the Kurak stop. This loop is normally used by the bus operator of Zgierz - Markab - but they are smaller, they have no unions (or at least no so powerful ones - I am not sure if they have them or not), so in case of them, the lack of social points at the loops is not a problem. However, the MPK demands such a point.

Therefore, the buses start at the Świtezianki loop, close to the Łódź border, where there is a social point.

And they wait in the traffic jams at the border of Łódź and Zgierz.

I have driven through there a few times and it's quite weird for me that those jams are actually so big... Maybe the timetable for the suburban part of the route was just calculated incorrectly.

Tram service with skip-stop solution, you say? The problem is, the MPK has even no request bus stops at all just now. There were an idea to introduce them together with the recent changes, but it seems the MPK had some problems with that because they finally didn't do it. Also, skipping some stops by some departures of the tram and not skipping them by others is not really a good idea, because some trams would have shorter timings than others, which would break the regularity and the tact in the timetable.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 05:15 PM   #204
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First question: Is this a tempary problem while the roof e.t.c. at the substation is being repaired, or has someone decided to close the service permanently due to the bad contition of the substation?


What exactly does the union require?

In Gothenburg such places usually look like one of those "portable temporary house units" that construction workers usually use as a place to change clothes, shower, have their meal breaks e.t.c.

Perhaps it would be possible to place one of theese at the Kurak stop?


Which wehicles is used for this line? Is it technically possible to connect two wehicles rear to rear? If so, maybe some trams could be used backwards just to be able to drive a set of trams in both directions?

I.E. tram 46 comes from Łódź to the Kurak stop, and then drives onto the single track section.
Another tram is stored on the southbound track and that tram backs up rear to rear to the just arrived car.
The two connected trams drives to Przedmieście.
The tram facing nortwhards lets passengers leave the tram while the tram facing southwards lets passengers board the tram.
The set of trams drives back just before the switch north of Kurak.
Then they decouple.
The southwards facing tram continues as line 46 usually does.
The northwards facing tram then reverses onto the northbound track at Kurak, passes the switch that leads to Kilińskiego square and then drives forward and reverses at Kilińskiego square. Then it is back at the Kurak stop again facing souhbound. At Kurak stop it drives backwards on the northbound line towards Ozorków until it has passed the switch that joins both tracks to a single track.
Then it runs through the switch again, but this time onto the soutbound track but stops before it is in the way of the tracks to Kilińskiego square.
Now everything is in the same place as it was before.

If it could be possible to time the arrival of a northbound 46 at Kurak at the same time as a "reversing helper tram" arrives at Kurak from Kilińskiego square, then the last part of the procedure isn't needed as the northbound tram can wait for the "helper" tram just north of the Ozorków/Kilińskiego square switches at Kurak.

I don't know how many trams that's usually coupled on line 46, and I also don't know how many trams there is room for between the Ozorków/Kilińskiego square switches and the single track switch at Kurak. I also don't know what the rules say about running a one-direction tram backwards (with or without passengers) for a short stretch.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 06:41 PM   #205
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It's a temporary closure. And today I've read that it's likely that the traffic will be restored within a short period, say a week or two. Which was quite surprising, taking into account that recently in case of the line to Lutomiersk, in a similar situation (tracks needed some repair works after a heavy rain), it took many months.

But anyway the MPK says that the condition of the substation is very bad and if nothing will be done with it, it might become necessary to close the line permanently.

And there is a problem here, as this substation (same as the whole tram infrastructure between Zgierz and Ozorków) belongs to the municipality of Zgierz (Gmina Zgierz - which has nothing to do with the town of Zgierz, which is a separate municipality on its own, same as Ozorków; there is also Gmina Ozorków, but the tram does not cross it). From all the municipalities this line crosses (city of Łódź, town of Zgierz, municipality of Zgierz, town of Ozorków), this is the poorest of them and the least interested (politically) one in maintaining the tram service.

But in case of Pabianice, the village of Ksawerów lying between Zgierz and Pabianice finally found some money for their contribution to the tram renovation, so maybe this will happen in case of the line to Ozorków... We will see.

Considering the unions, those are rather guesses of the forum users (although some of them work in MPK or have other connections with the public transport in Łódź) - but it seems that they need a social point at at least one of the ends of the route. And there is a social point in Ozorków, but it's just next to the tram loop, and the replacement terminal bus stop is at some distance from it - so, supposedly, the drivers complain that they cannot observe the bus from there, and they are obliged to take care of it and react if they notice any trials of vandalism. On the other hand, it's not the only bus loop where the bus cannot be observed directly from the social point.

Generally, it's a weird situation.

In Łódź, such "portable house units" are also often used as social points for drivers. In the 1990s, such modular kiosks were often used: https://goo.gl/maps/5qRn23Gw6wK2
If I remember well, it's a Czechoslovak or Yugoslavian design. Which was also very popular in 1990s as a newspaper stand or as a shelter at tram and bus stops.

Would it be possible to place one at the Kurak stop? For sure, one could find a way to organize a social point for drivers there. But it seems that in the situation when they didn't know how much time it would take, they wouldn't want to take such a decision since it would probably cause some comparatively big spending - for transporting this "mobile house" there, maybe even for buying a new one, and for renting a piece of ground, as it is outside of the city borders.

On the line 46, really many types of rolling stock can be seen and many of them only on this line. The ones dedicated for it are the ones imported from Germany: GT6 and GT8 in different versions (brought from different cities - the most recent ones were partially low-floor GT8 units imported from... Helsinki in 2014), ex-Bochum/Gelsenkirchen M6S and Konstal 805Na - mostly the ones without modernized electrical systems, because those with modern electrical systems could have problems there due to big voltage drops. Also the ex-Bielefeld M8C would have problems there, because they are designed for the supply voltage 750 V, they are used in the city where the supply voltage is, basically, 600 V, so it's already too low (although still within the tolerance), but when there are drops from 600 V to, let's say, 400 V, then an M8C tram would just stop there and refuse to work.

Considering GT6, GT8 and M6S, it's not possible to operate the line using them coupled rear-to-rear because such a set of trams would be too long for some stops. Notice that some stops are right before or right behind an intersection of streets.

Considering 805Na - they could be connected rear-to-rear, which has already been used by MPK for a few times. Since they have doors on only one side, only one of the tram units is then accessible for the passengers. And this could be problem, because the trams on this line can be really full, at least between Łódź and Zgierz, so if only one unit of the tram set would be available for passengers, then it would be very overcrowded. Also, the 805Na trams are not really good for long suburban routes, as they have only two rows of seats inside.

With the manipulation proposed by you, there is a problem, that on the Kilińskiego square in Zgierz, the tram loop has only one track, on which there is usually a tram of the line 45 (Łódź - Zgierz) awaiting the departure time. If the loop was closed, then it would be possible to bypass it (although it would interrupt the driver of the 45 tram, who should have a break instead of taking part in maneuvers) in such a way, that the 45 tram could make a circle and let the 45 technical tram through. But it's open, it doesn't have a shape of an O letter, but of a U letter.

Another problem is that in case of 805Na trams, each pair of them must be "tuned" in workshop conditions, so that they start the engines exactly at the same time, etc. - so they are always connected in the same pairs and the trams from two pairs cannot be quickly exchanged. What's more, coupling and decoupling trams "in the city" by drivers hasn't been done for years in Łódź, so lack of experience can also be a problem.

Maybe it could be possible to do it using GT6 trams (they have never been used coupled in Łódź, but they used to in Germany, so it should be possible), but still connecting them rear-to-rear, if possible at all, would demand some bureaucratic procedures, same as it was when they wanted to start connecting 805Na in such a way. And maybe also some changes in the electrical installations. Which could be easier in 805Na then it would be in case of GT6, because the MPK has much more experience with 805Na than with the German trams, which they started using and servicing in 2012 (805Na in 1979 and from then on, for years, the whole or almost the whole rolling stock of the MPK was this tram type only).

Considering running a tram backwards on a short stretch - from what I know, all the German trams in Łódź can be controlled from the rear side. Same is valid in case of a number of 805Na trams used on the line 43A (formerly 9), as they have to maneuver on a "Gleisdreieck" in Konstantynów Łódzki. Otherwise (all the other 805Na trams), running a tram backwards is allowed only with an assist of an extra person.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 11:11 PM   #206
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Thanks for your reply!

Is there a speed limit when driving the german trams or the 805Na trams from the control in the rear end?

(In Gothenburg atleast the M31 trams, built in Sweden in the 80's, has some speed limit when using the controls in the rear).

If it's possible to drive at a reasonable speed the tram might be driven from the rear end in one direction between Przedmieście and Karok, and then use Kilińskiego square to get the tram in the correct direction. It could also be done the other way around. Since there should be plenty of trams not needed due to shorter line there shouldn't be any real operational problem of having a tram on route 46 waiting for a tram on route 45 to leave Kilińskiego square.

But I don't know how the passenger flow is. If there isn't any true rush direction, i.e. in the rush hour people travel both ways, then this might nog be such a good idea.

Perhaps it could be done only in the few (?) hours that the roads are severly cognested?
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Old November 3rd, 2017, 12:56 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaM View Post
Is there a speed limit when driving the german trams or the 805Na trams from the control in the rear end?
No idea. It's rather limited since such driving takes place with open doors. Therefore, it's also impossible to drive in such a way with passengers inside.

(In Gothenburg atleast the M31 trams, built in Sweden in the 80's, has some speed limit when using the controls in the rear).

Quote:
If it's possible to drive at a reasonable speed the tram might be driven from the rear end in one direction between Przedmieście and Karok, and then use Kilińskiego square to get the tram in the correct direction. It could also be done the other way around. Since there should be plenty of trams not needed due to shorter line there shouldn't be any real operational problem of having a tram on route 46 waiting for a tram on route 45 to leave Kilińskiego square.
The most sensible option would be just to send bidirectional trams on this line. Or, even simpler, just send them to Plac Kilińskiego and bustitution from Kurak to Ozorków. The section through Zgierz is not so long, after all, it doesn't change much. Especially taking into account that the replacement buses cannot start from Przedmieście for lack of a proper place for that and they would have to start from somewhere in the center of Zgierz anyway.

Anyway, just now it's only an academic discussion since we know that the tram traffic will be restored in a week or so.

Quote:
Perhaps it could be done only in the few (?) hours that the roads are severly cognested?
You know. If there were people (decisive people) who really think of how to make public transport as friendly for passengers as possible, such decisions could be taken. Unfortunately, the current authorities of Łódź do not really care about neither public transport nor roads. Much has changed to better throughout the last years, but this is due to the work of local activists and public transport fans. Much has also changed to worse - like the departure frequencies - because the activists have no way of influencing it.

By the way, I forgot about it... On Tuesday, the offers in the tender for delivery of second-hand low-floor trams were open. And it's no surprise that the only sent offer is the one of Bogestra (Bochum-Gelsenkirchen-Straßenbahn) from Germany with their NF6D trams. One of them has been tested in Łódź in the last months.

Unfortunately, a second-hand track grinder (whose purchase from Bogestra was postulated by local SSC users) wasn't included in the tender. Which is bad, because the MPK has no track grinder. Meanwhile, Bogestra has recently built a new one (based on M6S tram) and they are able to sell the old one, based on GT6 tram, which they no more use. Having a track grinder and grinding the tracks regularly has a positive effect on the condition of both tracks and the rolling stock and reduces the noise. The biggest Polish tram networks, like Warsaw or Cracow, have such machines - but not Łódź.

Anyway, buying the NF6D trams was really a good decision which will allow renewing a big part of the MPK rolling stock and increasing the share of low-floor trams very much.

32 vehicles will be delivered throughout the time till the end of 2020.



Unfortunately, the availability of such second-hand narrow-gauge low-floor trams in Europe is quite limited. A good option will also be offered by Helsinki, but their trams are much newer (they are selling them because they are not appropriate for their tight curves, buying them by Helsinki was a mistake) and, what's more, it seems that also one of German cities is interested in them and they are likely to offer a better price for them.
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Old November 3rd, 2017, 07:36 PM   #208
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The tram to Ozorków will be restored on Sunday late in the evening.

The first tram - from Kurak to Ozorków at 23:13.
The last replacement bus - from Ozorków to Łódź at 23:45.

So already on the night from Sunday to Monday, there will already be trams.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/mpklodz/vid...tG6eNZhyX0Guxk - I recommend the video available there. It shows the whole route of the line 46, from Stoki to Ozorków.
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Old November 25th, 2017, 06:36 PM   #209
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Trams in Łódź by The Lowfloorer:

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Old December 25th, 2017, 09:50 PM   #210
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Unfortunately, the tracks to Ozorków are endangered again. The condition of tracks makes it necessary to decrease the speed of trams so that the longest one-track section will be driven in one direction in 20 minutes. Which will force decreasing the frequency of trams from the current 24 minutes to 40 minutes. Because of that, suspending the trams is considered.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 07:58 PM   #211
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A contract with the contractor for the construction of the railway tunnel in Łódź was signed today.

This will be the continuation of the tunnel ending now at the Łódź Fabryczna station. It will be used by metropolitan, regional and long-distance trains. It will be drilled with TBM heads under the very city center.
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