daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 18th, 2016, 04:22 AM   #101
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

The difference between Stadler and Newag was very small.

We hope that there will be no appeals from the side of Newag and Pesa, and therefore no delays. But it can always happen.

Flirts of Stadler are very good trains and ŁKA does it very well ordering the trains together with long-term service.

I have once used a Flirt of Deutsche Bahn (DB Regio) from the "Süwex" project and their condition is very bad compared to those of ŁKA.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 26th, 2016, 08:45 PM   #102
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

fRegarding the new ŁKA trains, they cancelled the choice of Stadler because they found some errors in their offer, and it turned out that actually the offer of Newag was better.

Stadler has appealed and their appeal will be judged probably on Wednesday.

It turned out Stadler had some errors in their offer concerning the energy consumption.

According to a local newspaper: http://www.dzienniklodzki.pl/komunik...ewag,11420983/
Quote:
The purchaser asked an independent expert in power electronics for an opinion. After analysis of the tender documentation, the expert stated there were errors in both the offer and the explanation filed in by Stadler. Those errors concern the calculation model of the energy drawn for the traction and non-traction purposes, which was the basis for calculating the cost efficiency coefficient, subject to assessment according to the criteria of the tender.
Newag is a producer which is cooperating with Stadler, for example the Stadler Flirt trains for PKP Intercity were assembled by Newag - so the result should be positive anyway.

Meanwhile, the new Łódź Fabryczna station, which will be used also by ŁKA, and which involved new sections of tram tracks being built as well, is gonna open in only 2 weeks and one day!

I will quote my post from the thread on railway in Poland:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
The new Łódź Fabryczna station is gonna open in 2 weeks and 1 day only!

Many photos here and on the previous pages:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post136824481

Samples:


(Tomzaw999)


(MiBac)


(karol.ldz)

Before-after comparisons (Matticitt):





__________________
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2016, 11:30 AM   #103
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,342
Likes (Received): 26132

Taken from Polish railways thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ufonut View Post
First train at Lodz Fabryczna station



Almost ready....

__________________
Для Вас:
Страница в ВК:

For you:
Facebook & Flickr pages

MiaM, geometarkv liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2016, 12:19 PM   #104
Ghostpoet
Registered User
 
Ghostpoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 66
Likes (Received): 34

When is the opening of the new station?

Thnx!
Ghostpoet no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2016, 12:22 PM   #105
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,342
Likes (Received): 26132

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostpoet View Post
When is the opening of the new station?

Thnx!
Planned for 11th December
__________________
Для Вас:
Страница в ВК:

For you:
Facebook & Flickr pages
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 30th, 2016, 12:30 PM   #106
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,342
Likes (Received): 26132

First tram on relaid tracks near Lodz Fabryczna station:
https://www.facebook.com/mpklodz

__________________
Для Вас:
Страница в ВК:

For you:
Facebook & Flickr pages

MiaM, rakcancer liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2016, 01:40 AM   #107
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

It has already appeared in the Polish railways thread, but here it's actually more proper.

Trams:



Buses:



The appeal of Stadler about the trains for ŁKA is still not resolved, unfortunately.
__________________

dimlys1994, MiaM liked this post
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2016, 12:50 AM   #108
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

Maybe not everyone follows the railway division of SSC...

Tomorrow opening!

Fabryczny live: https://go.toya.net.pl/25/13758/4444137585/play https://go.toya.net.pl/25/13758/4444137584/play

People already passing by.
Cars already driving by.
Trams not yet. But wait just a few hours.

It's a great moment for Łódź.
__________________

MiaM liked this post
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2016, 12:39 PM   #109
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

Tram interchange at the new Łódź Fabryczna - photos by the Łódzka Inicjatywa na Rzecz Przyjaznego Transportu (Łódź Initiative for the Passenger-Friendly Transport) association:















As for now, it seems that it takes too much time for the trams to wait for a green light at the new intersections (4 minutes of total waiting time, 4 intersections where the trams turn instead of 2 intersections where they go forward) and they have problems with catching up with the timetable - but we all hope it will be corrected. There is really no reason for such a long waiting time, as all the tracks next to the station are in public-transport-only areas.
__________________

dimlys1994, Patryk, MiaM, geometarkv liked this post
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2016, 10:36 AM   #110
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,342
Likes (Received): 26132

Updated tram map on urbanrail.net, with changes around Łódź Fabryczna station:
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/pl/lodz/lodz.htm

__________________
Для Вас:
Страница в ВК:

For you:
Facebook & Flickr pages

Kpc21, MiaM, Swede, geometarkv liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2016, 12:50 AM   #111
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

There will be a change from Monday 19th December.

The lines: 9A, 12A will no longer go through the new tram interchange stop next to the station, they will go forward Narutowicza street instead, as before the station opening.
__________________

dimlys1994, MiaM liked this post
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2016, 01:36 AM   #112
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

Finally there is the court sentence concerning the trains for Łódzka Kolej Aglomeracyjna (Łódź Metropolitan Railway) - they will be delivered by Newag.

Source: http://www.rynek-kolejowy.pl/wiadomo...lka-79550.html (PL)
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2017, 02:19 AM   #113
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

From Monday 9th January also the line 9 omits the new stop in front of the new Łódź Fabryczna station and goes just forward the Narutowicza street.
__________________

dimlys1994 liked this post
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2017, 03:50 PM   #114
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

The trams and buses (mostly buses, small changes in trams) are going to be rerouted from 2nd April 2017.

The new routes of:
- trams: http://uml.lodz.pl/get.php?id=21133
- buses: http://uml.lodz.pl/get.php?id=21083
- night buses: http://uml.lodz.pl/get.php?id=21132

The bus map in fragments: http://uml.lodz.pl/lodzlaczy

The lines and their frequencies in minutes (and reasons for such routes - but in Polish): http://uml.lodz.pl/get.php?id=21080

The idea is to make the public transport system based more on trams than on buses, and make buses serve the residential areas better.

I don't know if it's a good idea because the trams on the main routes are already overcrowded - and there is not enough rolling stock to increase their frequency.

But we will see how it will work. A revision of the new routes is planned for the autumn, once the passengers will have a chance to get used to them.

For comparison, the current routes:
- trams: http://www.mpk.lodz.pl/files/tramwaje_roboty.pdf (with temporary changes because of tracks renovations)
- buses: http://zdit.uml.lodz.pl/files/schema...r_f69d60c1.pdf (without changes after opening the Łódź Fabryczna station)
- night buses: http://www.mpk.lodz.pl/files/autobus...03_12_2007.pdf
__________________

dimlys1994, FrankYCH liked this post
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2017, 05:57 PM   #115
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,599
Likes (Received): 5963

Easy solution: get more rolling stock. It does seem like a lot of the corridors could handle higher frequencies.

Of course, they may not have the money for it, but if you you want to enlarge PT service, this can't be done for free.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2017, 09:37 PM   #116
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

Easier said than done. We have to exchange the old rolling stock first of all since it's in bad technical condition. There are orders for brand new trams being prepared (over 40 or even 50 units in total - first such a big rolling stock purchase in the city for years) and we hope to manage to get some trams withdrawn by Germans because of problems with bogeys of axles (they can be used with a limited velocity, but those limits are anyway rarely exceeded in Łódź) - but this is still too few.

And the length of trams cannot be increased because of the length of the currently built stop platforms.

When I travel by trams in Łódź, in probably 45% of cases I meet:



Konstal 805Na renovated. Their technical condition is usually not so bad because they underwent a renovation, but the comfort in them is anyway low and they have very draughty doors. They don't fulfill the modern standards.

In 40% of cases I meet:



The same problem as with the renovated version + their technical condition is usually bad, they have much corrosion. And they are noisy because they still use rotary DC-to-DC converters (built up of a DC motor and a DC generator connected by a shaft). Some of the renovated ones also do, but they usually have electronic ones.

In 10% - one of those:







In 5% of cases I meet one of those:



The new version of the Konstal 805Na renovation. They have tight doors and the interior is designed better.

So it looks:



For comparison, the old renovated version:



Rarely:



Most rarely (rather because they occur only on specific lines, I don't usually use):







__________________

Urbanista1, dimlys1994 liked this post

Last edited by Kpc21; February 3rd, 2017 at 10:08 PM.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2017, 11:24 AM   #117
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,599
Likes (Received): 5963

Vienna just recently placed an order for up to 165 new trams between 2018 and 2026

No seriously, I do get it that rolling stock is a challenge for in cases like these where the rolling stock needs serious updating while at the same time one could make use of an enlarged rolling stock. Add to that that the financial means are probably already stressed and you get to a situation which I would not like to be in. However, if you redesign the PT network, shifting importance from busses to trams, while you have no created the means for the tram network to cope with that change, you are heading for problems.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK

Kpc21 liked this post
Slartibartfas está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2017, 03:29 PM   #118
0tomek0
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Wrocław
Posts: 1,289
Likes (Received): 585

Of course, money is the major problem but it's also about the scale of rolling stock exchange.

If you take a look at mentioned Vienna, it has been replacing outdated E1/E2-type trams for several years now, purchasing ULFs. Recent contract for the tram purchase is a continuation of this. Same will concern major western-european networks like Berlin (replacing CKD T6 and KT4s by GT6N and recently by Flexity trams), Munich and Amsterdam.

Łódź, however has purchased very few new modern trams between 1992 and 2014 - 25 units that is. 22 trams purchased in 2015/16 were not only a replacement for 805Na cars but also a necessary fleet addition due to opening of a network extension.
This means that replacement of old models hasn't been functioning for several years and Łódź will have to face a huge fleet renewal program within next years.

Similar cases occur in most networks of Poland, though Łódź has purchased the smallest ammount of new rolling stock out of the large networks in Poland within 8-10 years time.
__________________

Kpc21 liked this post
0tomek0 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2017, 05:06 PM   #119
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,599
Likes (Received): 5963

What is the age range of the major bulk of tram vehicle in Lodz?

You are of course right that the challenge may bigger for Lodz as finances are tight, yet the demand for replacement of vehicles alone is greater.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2017, 11:43 PM   #120
Kpc21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Łódź
Posts: 18,377
Likes (Received): 6779

It's difficult to say because the 805Na trams were being delivered from 1977 to 1990.

But even though they were delivered till 1990, they were already an outdated construction in these times. It's basically a developed version of Konstal 13N, which was a copy of Tatra T1.
Kpc21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium