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Old February 5th, 2017, 01:07 PM   #121
Slartibartfas
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1977 to 1990? 27-40 years, doesn't sound too terrible to be honest. As long as the vehicles were properly maintained of course. And old models are usually designed in a fairly sturdy way, the major problem being of course the lack of low floor facilities. Other than that however they usually do a pretty decent job. That age does mean however that replacement on a large scale is due I suppose. So you certainly have a point there.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 03:01 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
As long as the vehicles were properly maintained of course.
Well, this is a problem even with the new vehicles. A few Bombardier Cityrunner and Pesa 122N trams have been out of order for years. Some of them were being taken to pieces to get spare parts for the other units, others weren't repaired after accidents.

Now, they are trying to get all of them back running.

And also, the condition of the tracks at most part of the network was very bad. There are still some sections where the trams have a speed limit to 10 km/h - but currently, there is much fewer such places than before. The trams were largely underinvested after 1990.

At the beginning of this movie, you can see a ride on one of the worst sections of tracks in Łódź:


(this is an 805Na modernized tram)

Especially from the 3rd minute. See how the 1st waggon moves with respect to the first one and how slow the tram drives. And at the condition of the track for the opposite direction.

Within the last few months, they finally decided to renovate it (and extend a few hundred meters to Inflancka street, where there is a new metropolitan train station).

Such bad state of the tracks also didn't have a good effect on the rolling stock.

Now, most of the tracks are already renovated, but some sections renovated after 1990 need a renovation again.

See the map (created by SSC users):


Bigger map

Green - tracks in good state
Yellow - tracks which are not so bad or were renovated after 1990, but also need renovation
Red - tracks in bad state, need immediate renovation
Blue - currently in renovation

And the tracks that will be renovated in the most near future - in pink:



By the way, here is a Pesa Swing ride (the newest tram type in Łódź) on the East-West route, one of the biggest infrastructure investments in the city of the last times:



See also this - the newest route next to the Łódź Fabryczna station:

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Old February 5th, 2017, 06:08 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
Now, most of the tracks are already renovated, but some sections renovated after 1990 need a renovation again.
Here in Berlin especially crossings have to be renewed at least after 20-25 years. Obviously everywhere, where tracks are crossed by other vehicles or at aharp curves with very small radi, renovation is a never ending story. Additionally, as long as tram-tracks are not build to same standard as railway-tracks, they have to be renewed more often. Ballasted tram-tracks of the 80s with concrete-sleepers and own right-of-way are very solid. I saw those tracks in Poznan, they still work ok without much maintainance.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #124
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On the other hand, on some streets we have a track technology called by us "Hungarian board" (no idea if it has actually anything to do with Hungary):



This is how such a track is constructed:





It was supposed to last long and when it's worn out, it should be enough to remove the rails from the board and insert new ones.

The problem is, the lifetime of those concrete boards is actually shorter than the lifetime of the tracks, and it's not the rails what needs an exchange now, but the whole concrete part.

And, by the way, a common problem with this technology are the rail "erections" in summer when the track has a few years already. Not only we have this problem, but also Cracow.



In Cracow:



It has happened also in Bydgoszcz:

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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:15 PM   #125
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On the other hand, on some streets we have a track technology called by us "Hungarian board" (no idea if it has actually anything to do with Hungary):
Yes it, does. It´s a system invented in Budapest. You can see this in Vienna and some east-german cities, too. In german it´s called GVP (Großverbundplatte). In Germany it failed too for the same reasons as in Poland. Maybe not that dramatic damage, but those plates tend to move against each other. This causes very much noise driving on them. Nowadays they build a concrete slab and than pour asphalt to the street-level above it. Those system was very common in socialistic countries as the industry for pre-fabricated concrete parts was well developed.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:38 PM   #126
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In Poland, it gained popularity after the fall of communism.

We had also something called "Łódź board" or "Łódź plate" - probably a locally developed technology.

See here (copy the link and replace the space with a dot): http://gtlodz eu/img-plyta_lodzka_zostaje,16303.html

Seemingly, it's something you can see here: https://goo.gl/maps/yNBExiJeXg82

It was largely undurable.
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Old February 13th, 2017, 06:16 PM   #127
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From Metro Report

http://www.metro-report.com/news/new...s-to-lodz.html

Pesa to supply more trams to Łódź
13 Feb 2017



POLAND: Pesa submitted the best offer to supply 12 trams to Łódź, city transport operator MPK Łódź announced on February 10.

The Bydgoszcz-based supplier is to supply five-section trams from its Swing family for 99·6m złoty, with deliveries due to be completed before the end of September 2018

...
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Old February 15th, 2017, 04:51 PM   #128
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Old bus photos from Łódź - from http://lodz.wyborcza.pl/lodz/13,9797...-quiz.html?i=0

Hungarians will like some of them Although most are Polish buses.



















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Old February 16th, 2017, 10:52 PM   #129
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Ikarus!!!
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Old February 16th, 2017, 11:02 PM   #130
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Well, we still used them in September 2015 Very durable buses.

Only quite noisy, high-floor, and the gauntlets in windows were usually missing, so the vibrating windows were making even more noise.

A video from the goodbye event made by a local TV:



In Polish, but you still see them
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Old February 28th, 2017, 08:59 PM   #131
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From Railway Gazette

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/n...-contract.html

Newag signs Łódź EMU contract
28 Feb 2017



POLAND: Łódź suburban operator Łódzka Kolej Aglomeracyjna signed a contract on February 28 for Newag to supply 14 three-car Impuls 2 electric multiple-units for 236·8m złoty, and maintain them for 12 years at a cost of 1·476 złoty/train-km.

Stadler supplied ŁKA’s current fleet of 20 two-car Flirt3 EMUs and had originally been named preferred bidder for the latest contract in September 2016, with an offer of 260·9m złoty and 2·214 złoty/km, which beat rival proposals from Newag and Pesa. Newag successfully challenged this decision, and an initial appeal by Stadler was rejected. Although the Swiss company has a second appeal underway, this does not prevent the contract from being signed
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Old February 28th, 2017, 09:58 PM   #132
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I am wondering if such news shouldn't rather go to the [Poland] Railways thread. Regional trains are still trains.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 10:07 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunnel owl View Post
Yes it, does. It´s a system invented in Budapest. You can see this in Vienna and some east-german cities, too. In german it´s called GVP (Großverbundplatte). In Germany it failed too for the same reasons as in Poland. Maybe not that dramatic damage, but those plates tend to move against each other. This causes very much noise driving on them. Nowadays they build a concrete slab and than pour asphalt to the street-level above it. Those system was very common in socialistic countries as the industry for pre-fabricated concrete parts was well developed.
I have never seen anything like that "track erection" in Vienna, nor have I ever read about such a thing.

Also, the above pictures look to me like a different system. In Vienna tracks are built as metal construct and the two tracks are crossconnected by metal beams every few meters. Concrete plates are than either put on top of that metal construct or a solid concrete plate is poured on top.

This is how it looks like without the concrete during maintenance / reconstruction:



To get a "track erection" with this system, welded metal connections would have to break or the metal beams would have to break through solid concrete. As I said, I have never seen such a thing or heard about it.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 04:25 PM   #134
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http://www.transport-publiczny.pl/wi...iej-54461.html

Translation.

Quote:
Łódź: M8C withdrawn from the line to Pabianice
Author: Kasper Fiszer
Date of publication: 2017-03-01 11:26


Phot. Kasper Fiszer

MPK-Łodź modernizes the M8C type tram wagons imported in 2013. The units which do not undergo repairs are currently taken out of service. After their major refurbishment, they will probably no longer be used on the suburban routes.

As MPK informed as, the M8C wagons, which, until recently, operated on the suburban line 41 from Łódź to Pabianice, have been withdrawn from it. Currently, the route to the neighboring town is operated with 805N generation wagons, mostly after a modernization in MPK workshops in Tramwajowa street.

The condition of the infrastructure does not allow to use the imported wagons

"The German wagons are quite demanding in terms of the track quality (they have rigid bogie frames). A similar problem occurs concerning the supply voltage (the M8Cs from Bielefeld are designed for the voltage of 750 V and a voltage drop of more than 30% of this value causes the drive system to stop)", Sebastian Grochala, the spokesman of the MPK, explains. The modernized trams operate on the urban lines now and none of the unit not renovated yet is being used.

The carrier plans to intensify the modernization works of this type of wagons. This year, seven M8Cs are supposed to leave the workshops. Currently, the wagons no. 523, 525, 526, 527, 530 and 531 stay there and the next one, 522, will join them soon. "Only four wagons (no. 529, 532, 533 and 534) will stay in the Chocianowice tram depot. All of them are out of order for different reasons", he adds. Three of them have already undergone major refurbishment.

The repair of the M8Cs is difficult due to the lack of spare parts

We do not know if any of the not modernized yet M8Cs will be used any more. "Maybe we will manage to get two or three units to operation. It should be remembered that we have no spare parts at all for the original M8C. This complicates their potential repair", the representative of the MPK explains. Meanwhile, the units after the modernization will be probably not used on suburban routes. According to the information from the MPK, the public transport management in Łódź, ZDiT, wants to send them to the urban lines, because they are partially low-floor.

There is no major changes in the rolling stock operating the other lines to the neighboring towns. "Sixteen" to Zgierz and "nine" together with the night N9 to Konstantynów Łódzki are operated with 805Na trams (partially after modernization). To the 43 line to Lutomiersk (currently shortened to Konstantynów due to tracks washout) GT6 trams and, sporadically, M6S are sent. The last ones are also used on the line to Ozorków, on which also GT8N, 805Na and their derivatives can be met.

Scrapping of the first M6S is planned

The MPK owns currently five GT6 trams (two overtaken in 2012 from the closed MKT company and three from also closed Tramwaje Podmiejskie company). In the near future, one of the six M6S vehicles will be scrapped. From the reminding five, three are currently operational, two others are beign repaired. "Due to the fact that they can operate on both lines: 43 and 46, the M6S trams are sent to the city last. Usually, they serve as reserve rolling stock", Sebastian Grochala says.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 11:00 PM   #135
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The new public transport scheme in Łódź from 2 April:

- trams (and buses including the stops)
- buses overlaid on the city map
- night buses

- the new ticket pricing
- the new timetable template



The new marking of the stops:









(the maps in the citylight are there only temporarily - in the final version, they will be only inside the shelter, on the rear wall)

Source: uml.lodz.pl/lodzlaczy
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Old March 21st, 2017, 03:00 AM   #136
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The most picturesque and unusual line in the Łódź tram network is now endangered.









The reason is a track washout which happened a month ago. The traffic hasn't been restored until now. And it seems, the municipality of Konstantynów Łódzki (on the area of which the damage happened) has no money for the necessary repairs.

And it turns out that the replacement bus service is anyway about 10 minutes faster than the tram was.

http://www.transport-publiczny.pl/wi...nym-54679.html (translation by me)

Quote:
Łódź: Lutomiersk without tram, Andrespol with a night bus

Author:
Kasper Fiszer

Publishing date:
2017-03-20 07:55


The replacement bus to Lutomiersk
fot. Kasper Fiszer.

As for now, the tram connection from Łódź to Lutomiersk will not be restored. The reason is, the cost of the necessary repairs exceeds the current capabilities of the Konstantynów Łódzki budget. Meanwhile, Andrespol will not lose the night bus connection – instead of the line N1, a variant of the line N5 will go there.

Last Friday, the meeting of the Roads and Transport Authority (ZDiT) of the Łódź city hall, the municipality of Konstantynów Łódzki and the MPK (the city transport operator in Łódź), initially announced for the second week of March and later for the last Thursday, took place. The representatives of all the institutions discussed the possibility of restoring the traffic on the line from Konstantynów Łódzki to Lutomiersk, on which a track washout occurred a month ago. The talks did not result, however, in working out any specific solutions.

Konstantynów did not indicate the date of the track repair

"Konstantynów Łódzki still wishes to maintain the connection", the spokesman of ZDiT, Tomasz Andrzejewski, comments. "However, the range of works, which have to be done, is quite costly and for the time being, the municipality is not able to propose specific dates or deadlines", he adds. It means, the line will still be operated by the replacement buses Z43.

"The works must be done at both the drainage ditches and the track", the representative of ZDiT explains. The damage took place at the section between the Konstantynów-Liberty Square turning wye and the town border. The track is washed out at the length of about 50 meters. We are waiting for the response of the Konstantynów Łódzki municipality concerning the possible repair.

An extra transfer on the route to Lutomiersk again?

Currently, the replacement line Z43 – initially going between Lutomiersk and Konstantynów – is extended to Łódź, due to the renovation of the tracks to the Brus museum depot. The works are supposed to last till the end of month. On 2 April, the line 9 is planned to be replaced with the line 43 (with two variants: the basic one Łódź – Konstantynów and an extended one Łódź – Lutomiersk). It should be expected that in the current situation, all the rides of this line will end at the turning wye in Konstantynów, and on the further section of the route, the replacement bus service will be kept.

Andrespol will not lose the night connection

Much more fruitfully were the negotiations of ZDiT with the Andrespol municipality. The original plan of the April changes in the night transport system assumed withdrawing the line N1 from Andrespol and, therefore, lack of public transport in this town at night. The municipality was participating in the costs of the connection and it accused Łódź of not consulting the decision with its partner. Finally, the sides established that the line N1 will be replaced by a new variant of the line N5, denoted as N5B.

"The buses will provide a connection also for the people living in Andrzejów and in Zakładowa street. This solution will satisfy not only the passengers from Andrespol, but it will also connect Andrzejów and Janów with the city center better", Tomasz Andrzejewski explains. Those changes will be enforced on 2 April.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 04:06 PM   #137
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I was always amazed how well developed out of town tram network Łódź has. No other city in Poland can compare to Łódź, not counting Upper Silesia if someone want to take it under consideration but that is different story.
In my opinion Łódź is a tram capital city in Poland...
I cross my fingers for that endangered line to Lutomiersk because it could be a beginning of permanent closure.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 08:56 PM   #138
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Those suburban trams began as something closer to a commuter railway. Initially, the trams on some of the lines were pulled by steam locomotives. The company operating those trams was called Łódź Narrow-Gauge Electric Commuter Railway. It was separated from the city tram network, it got connected with it later.

A similar history has the Warsaw Commuter Railway (WKD), but the WKD operates now as a railway. It has even converted from the voltage of 600 V (typical for trams in Poland) to 3 kV (typical for railway) recently. Meanwhile, the suburban lines in Łódź operate as trams.

The problem is that the Polish law doesn't actually assume existing anything which could be called "light rail". There are two categories, totally separate from each other: tram and railway. So the WKD must adhere to all the rules for the heavy railway, concerning the safety or signalling, while the suburban trams in Łódź are endangered, because they have to be maintained by small towns or village municipalities, which simply have not enough money for that.

It's also interesting that there have never been horse trams in Łódź. The city trams opened on 23 December 1898 and they were electric from the very beginning. Actually, if I am not mistaken, the trams had the first power plant in Łódź. Or one of the first ones.

The first suburban lines were to Pabianice (opened on 17 January 1901) and to Zgierz (opened 2 days later). And they were electric too, each of them had its own power plant.

But, for example, the route between Zgierz and Ozorków was opened on 9 April 1922 "under steam", and electric power was introduced on it in 1926.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 12:31 AM   #139
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Could it be possible to get some EU funding for the more rural tram lines?

IMHO especially the Silesia network should get some cultural funding. Except for the Belgian coast tram I believe that Poland is the only EU country with such rural and interurban tram lines.

P.S. There are more countries that only has two juridical kinds of rail networks. For example Sweden has one for typical heavy rail and one for trams and metro systems. I don't think that there are any problems with those laws. In general the state owns almost all "heavy" rail lines except for connections to industries, some museum lines, the narrow gauge local railway "Roslagsbanan" in Stockholm and so on, but all light rails are owned by local municipalys or similar.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 03:27 AM   #140
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There is many such lines in Germany. One that I know - S2 in Karlsruhe. While most "S" lines in Karlsruhe are railway or tram-train lines, this one is a totally ordinary tram line.

It was possible to get EU funding for that by means of creating so called metropolitan area - by all the municipalities the line belongs to together. The PO government was going to create a few such areas in Poland, and one was supposed to be Łódź with the surrounding area. Unfortunately, after the elections, the new PiS government resigned from most of the metropolitan area, except for one for the Upper Silesia.

Because those tram lines in Łódź area cross multiple municipalities and multiple counties, in my opinion, the region (voivodeship) should participate in the costs and organize everything - but, unfortunately, they are not interested in it.

In Poland, it's also so that the state owns almost all the "heavy" rail lines. There are some exceptions. For example, the Mścice - Mielno railway line, which was bound to be closed and on which the passenger traffic was suspended in 1994, got overtaken by the city of Koszalin in 2008, and from that time, there are trains on this line each year - unfortunately only in the holiday period, but it's anyway much since Mielno is a holiday resort. By the way - this line was also originally built as a tram line.

Łódź used to have two more such suburban tram connections: through Ruda Pabianicka and Rzgów to Tuszyn and to Aleksandrów Łódzki. The first one of them to be closed was the section between Rzgów and Tuszyn in 1978. In order to give room for a double-carriageway road. The lines to Rzgów and to Aleksandrów became prays of the political transformation in the early '90s. It was a difficult time in Poland, with an economic crisis and hyperinflation. The municipalities of Rzgów and Aleksandrów had no money to maintain the tram, so the trams got replaced with buses.

Which is quite ironic, because while the line to Konstantynów Łódzki goes through rural areas on some section, the line to Aleksandrów Łódzki would go fully through urban areas.

It's how the network more or less looks like:



The net of urban trams is simplified on this schematic, not all routes (although almost all) are included.

You can see the suburban lines too. As well as the closed suburban lines - in red, and the section currently being endangered - in dashed green-red.
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