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Old August 17th, 2007, 06:20 PM   #161
The Urban Politician
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Yawn View Post
I like tower 3, but at the moment I can't remember what it reminds me of. P/H is not really known for its originality. Someone help me out here.

There isn't enough of tower 4 to comment on.

Again, it makes me question the whole planning of the '4 sites' along the south wall of Grant Park. Why was it deemed to be 4 parcels? Obviously because the economics of the deal suggested it. I mean why not 1 bigger parcel and a park space? Why not a proper "streetwall" like the one that occurs on Michigan Ave. or even the newly constructed streetwall adjacent to 840 Lakeshore Dr.?

I just have a bad feeling that it's going to all feel a little monotonous.....except one with blueish glass, one with greenish glass, one with grayish glass....etc.

.......but tower 3 is sexy....whoever came up with it originally.
^ I think the problem with the 'proper streetwall' argument is that if you look at Mich Ave, most of the buildings are relatively short. Having a streetwall of 700-900 foot buildings is a completely different ballgame and, while somewhat cool, would almost be too empowering.

All things considered, these buildings still maintain a streetwall in the 5-6 story (give or take) range, it's just that it won't look like a streetwall per say because the towers that emerge from the bases are just so damn tall
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Old August 17th, 2007, 06:31 PM   #162
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Thanks, BVic, for the sleuthwork. Exciting times!

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Originally Posted by Helmet Yawn View Post
I like tower 3, but at the moment I can't remember what it reminds me of. P/H is not really known for its originality. Someone help me out here.....
Perhaps this?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

But I wouldn't call the PH design "derivative" of this.

Last edited by wrabbit; August 17th, 2007 at 08:07 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 09:52 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Urban Politician View Post
^ I think the problem with the 'proper streetwall' argument is that if you look at Mich Ave, most of the buildings are relatively short. Having a streetwall of 700-900 foot buildings is a completely different ballgame and, while somewhat cool, would almost be too empowering.

All things considered, these buildings still maintain a streetwall in the 5-6 story (give or take) range, it's just that it won't look like a streetwall per say because the towers that emerge from the bases are just so damn tall
Maybe there is another way to look at this. These buildings are forming a Park Wall not a Streetwall. The impact will be stunning standing at the Art Institute or Buckingham Fountain and looking south. That being said I am excited about the style and architectual diversity That these 4 buildings are bringing to the skyline.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 10:32 PM   #164
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Well, the real problem with the streetwall is that these will be residential buildings, which need windows on all sides.

I pushed for the original Central Station PD to include a requirement for this area to have a masonry streetwall that matched the Michigan Boulevard streetwall. But as it became evident that these would be solely residential buildings, that became harder to defend.

I rode past OMP the other night on Indiana. I think those curves on the western/southern fašades are really sexy and I'm going to like the finished product a lot. This new one, I'm not so sure. I keep thinking of a woman in her fourth month of pregnancy.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 07:44 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Well, the real problem with the streetwall is that these will be residential buildings, which need windows on all sides.

I pushed for the original Central Station PD to include a requirement for this area to have a masonry streetwall that matched the Michigan Boulevard streetwall. But as it became evident that these would be solely residential buildings, that became harder to defend.
Why should it have been masonry?

Why should it have to match the Michigan Boulevard streetwall?

This is a new century you know...

I'm surprised that you didn't push for more variety in uses instead. More retail or hotel rooms.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 09:47 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Well, the real problem with the streetwall is that these will be residential buildings, which need windows on all sides.

I pushed for the original Central Station PD to include a requirement for this area to have a masonry streetwall that matched the Michigan Boulevard streetwall. But as it became evident that these would be solely residential buildings, that became harder to defend.

I rode past OMP the other night on Indiana. I think those curves on the western/southern fašades are really sexy and I'm going to like the finished product a lot. This new one, I'm not so sure. I keep thinking of a woman in her fourth month of pregnancy.

Masonry streetwall?? What the heck were you thinking? Thank goodness nobody listened to you!! (as I would hope is increasingly often the case with your architectural and urban design preferences (not to mention height) which are based on very outdated, obsolete concepts (note - you might want to stop reading the urban planning texts you edited!! - very 1980sish thinking!!). Come join us in the 21st century, Mr "'Downtown" - these are very exciting times indeed!
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Old August 18th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #167
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Grant Park 3 and 4

BVic - thanks for posting the elevations! I generally like what I'm seeing here.
Although I had held out hope that Enterprise would get a clue and have another firm design these 2, I can't find much to complain about - P/H can indeed rise to the occassion when pushed it seems. I especially like the heights - and the positive force they will have in making it even more clear why the fantastic Park Michigan project should be built as currently proposed (for both its great and vital skyline and streetscape contribution)....
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Old August 18th, 2007, 09:55 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagotom View Post
Maybe there is another way to look at this. These buildings are forming a Park Wall not a Streetwall. The impact will be stunning standing at the Art Institute or Buckingham Fountain and looking south. That being said I am excited about the style and architectual diversity That these 4 buildings are bringing to the skyline.
This is kind of reminding me of the 'parkwall' around the south end of Central Park in Manhattan/NYC.

Mike
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Old August 27th, 2007, 05:01 PM   #169
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Quote:
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Why should it have been masonry?
To continue the formalism: dressed-up buildings facing the most formal large landscape in North America. So-so classicism ages more gracefully than so-so modernism.

Quote:
This is a new century you know...
In 1989? And blind rejection of the old is no way to determine the best way to proceed.

Quote:
I'm surprised that you didn't push for more variety in uses instead. More retail or hotel rooms.
At the time, the developer expected the Grant Park frontage to be office and hotel.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 06:14 PM   #170
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Quote:
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To continue the formalism: dressed-up buildings facing the most formal large landscape in North America. So-so classicism ages more gracefully than so-so modernism.
^ Modernism can't be formal?
"Dressed up buildings?" So-so classicism is "dressed up" in your book? Is the Columbian 'dressed up'?

So-so classicism ages more gracefully than so-so modernism? You know, Mr. D, nobody is going to put gargoyles, intricately carved terra-cotta panels, statues, and Sullivan-esque details on ANY of these 'so so' classical buildings, right? You need to stop looking at the older buildings along the Michigan Ave streetwall and pretend that something like that is ever going to get built today.

I'd take honest modernism over cheaply redone, gross outlines of classicism any day, and the largest formal landscape in North America deserves no less. I know you're taking a page from Blair Kamin by discussing the importance of 'being dressed to the ball' when you're a highrise along Grant Park, but I think he would disagree with you, along with most of the architectural community today.

Of course, if we're talking about something of the quality of the Harold Washington Library, then I'll agree with you.

Last edited by The Urban Politician; August 27th, 2007 at 06:19 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 12:30 AM   #171
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Love the waves on GP3. A nice compliment to Aqua to the north, albeit more subtle.

Any news on whent construction will start on GP3 and GP4?
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Old August 29th, 2007, 07:10 PM   #172
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^ Might be a little while. They just started drilling at OMPW a couple weeks ago, and sales aren't what they were for OMP as of now. Wait til OMPW takes off a bit before expecting to hear anything.
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Old August 29th, 2007, 09:27 PM   #173
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Over the last 5 years a project began sales once the preceding building began construction. That process went nuts during 2006 when they had 1400MP, 1600MP, OMP1 OMPW all on the market when they were completing Tower 4. If the trend stays true for Enterprise/Caldwell Banker on launching we could see something early next year for sales on GP3. I don't think that we will see anything construction on GP3 until the Fall of 2008 and 2009 for GP4.
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Old August 30th, 2007, 05:17 AM   #174
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Originally in SSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
Here...I retried. I was real careful calculating the heights.

Please excuse the crowns...I was in a wierd mood.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :previous: :previous:
Finally - Alliance your are THE MAN! I am totally biased - but - this is the best contiguous set of building buildings in the City. Far surpassing Lakeshore East, River North or anything in Streeterville. The only thing that comes close is Marina Towers, IBM, Trump and the Wrigley Building.
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Old August 31st, 2007, 01:25 AM   #175
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I can easily see that being a logo for Lollapalooza. The 4 Museum Park buildings, with a stage in the foreground.
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Old August 31st, 2007, 09:04 PM   #176
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I can easily see that being a logo for Lollapalooza. The 4 Museum Park buildings, with a stage in the foreground.
Heck, it could become the logo for the Central Station Community..

And yes, it is beautiful... Hopefully, they haven't downscaled some of the buildings as I've heard in other forums.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 03:51 PM   #177
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Grant Park 3

Central Station developer not deterred by soft sales climate

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...0,570465.story

The developer of 795 units in two new South Loop luxury condominium towers overlooking Grant Park is forging ahead despite the turbulence in real estate markets around the country and softening demand in Chicago

Fogelson's 73- and 83-story towers are part of the 80-acre Central Station development, whose plans call for 8,000 units. So far, about 5,300 units have gone into development or been completed since 1990

Fogelson this month filed a request asking the city to allow each Grant Park tower to be an extra 100 feet high, not to add square footage or more units but to make the buildings taller and thinner, he explained. Together, the towers will have about 2.2 million square feet.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 09:01 PM   #178
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Trains Tracks to be Covered?

For those who periodically ask whether there are any plans to deck over the train tracks comes this, posted by Alliance at SSP. I'm as excited about this as I would be for another 600-700 foot proposal. Let's hope it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.nearwestgazette.com/Archive/1207/News1207d.htm
Desmond stated the City will create an “extension of Grant Park” over the railroad tracks flanking South Wall-Central Station and Columbus Dr. His firm is sponsoring an international competition for the extension’s design and has narrowed its choice to three finalists.

He noted Metra likely will consolidate its tracks and relocate its Weldon Yard structure just north of 18th St., where train cars are washed, to a more ”under grade” location in Grant Park north of Roosevelt Rd., perhaps at 9th St. Another solution would have Metra continue to use the current structure but reduce its height to between 18 and 20 feet.

Desmond also announced the St. Charles Railroad will close its operations in March 2008.
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Old December 5th, 2007, 12:10 AM   #179
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thats great news. I cant help but think how much the world will be in awe if we complete everything proposed by 2016.
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Old December 5th, 2007, 06:14 AM   #180
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By 2016, the railroad tracks will be covered, there will be atleast a 900' built at the south end of Grant Park and Queens Landing will be built

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