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Old April 21st, 2017, 01:58 AM   #101
saiho
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+1 Was typing this out when the spliff fairy beat me to the punch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by germantower View Post
This post perfectly illustrates why i have said that Manhattan is heavily underrated. Thanks for that streetscapeer.
That picture literally illustrates the opposite, how small New York's skyline foot print is compared to Shanghai's.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 02:24 AM   #102
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Lower Manhattan superimposed on the Puxi half of the centre would look a bit like this, even with Pudong (and the rest of Puxi's centre) not included:


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Old April 21st, 2017, 06:58 AM   #103
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First of all, thx streetscapeer for doing our favour by scaling the maps.

Those maps perfectly demonstrate how small Lower Manhattan is when compared to Shanghai's Inner Ring Road Circled Area (traditionally defined as Downtown Shanghai as shown incomplete in the map in red color).
Although there are also whole bunch of righrises area between the Inner Ring Road and Middle Ring Road.















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Old April 21st, 2017, 07:25 AM   #104
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nice job, guys, stunning and awesome
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Old April 21st, 2017, 08:08 AM   #105
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I think you guys are losing sight of what was being discussed. I think the whole point was that some posters were equivocating the size of Manhattan with the small area of Pudong (Lujiazui) + the Bund vicinity. Someone even mentioned that Lujiazui is comparable to half of Manhattan in size. From the map overlays posted, that doesn't even hold true for the lower 2/3rds of Manhattan. The skyscraper portion of Lujiazui is more comparable the southern tip of Manhattan.

Then Germantower simply chimed in to say that Manhattan's size was being underestimated and that the areas of Shanghai it was being compared to were smaller. Which they are.




Here are the orange and yellow arrows for comparison







With all of Manhattan:





I don't think anyone is really saying that Manhattan has more highrises than all of SH, just that comparing a couple of SH areas with the whole island of Manhattan is a bit disingenuous.

Unrelated: It's a bit common for people to underestimate the size of Manhattan. I guess because it's always seen in comparison with the other much bigger boroughs.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 09:06 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetscapeer View Post
I think you guys are losing sight of what was being discussed. I think the whole point was that some posters were equivocating the size of Manhattan with the small area of Pudong (Lujiazui) + the Bund vicinity. Someone even mentioned that Lujiazui is comparable to half of Manhattan in size. From the map overlays posted, that doesn't even hold true for the lower 2/3rds of Manhattan. The skyscraper portion of Lujiazui is more comparable the southern tip of Manhattan.

Then Germantower simply chimed in to say that Manhattan's size was being underestimated and that the areas of Shanghai it was being compared to were smaller. Which they were.




Here are the orange and yellow arrows for comparison







With all of Manhattan:





I don't think anyone is really saying that Manhattan has more highrises than all of SH, just that comparing a couple of SH areas with the whole island of Manhattan is a bit disingenuous.

Unrelated: It's a bit common for people to underestimate the size of Manhattan. I guess because it's always seen in comparison with the other much bigger boroughs.
I would say that the NYC metropolitan area is still way larger than Shanghai. You can't compare Manhattan with all of Shanghai because Manhattan is really just the equivalent of the inner ring road area. What happens when you superimpose just the four urban boroughs on Shanghai? It completely dwarfs Shanghai in size. And we're not talking about true suburbs like Long Island or Jersey. We're talking about boroughs with 20,000 ppl per sq mile (Queens) to 34,000 per sq mile (Bronx) and 37,000 per sq mile (Brooklyn). Once you factor in the suburbs of Northern Jersey, Southern NY State and Long Island, the comparison is even greater. These boroughs are massive cities in their own right and cannot be excluded from any conversation about NYC, as they are both de facto and de jure part of the city.

It's important that we compare apples to apples and to say that Shanghai is larger than Manhattan by comparing the entire urban area of Shanghai to just Manhattan is grossly misleading.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 09:18 AM   #107
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That's a completely different discussion to the one we're having if you read the thread title and the last 2 pages of the thread itself
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Old April 21st, 2017, 01:37 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
I would say that the NYC metropolitan area is still way larger than Shanghai. You can't compare Manhattan with all of Shanghai because Manhattan is really just the equivalent of the inner ring road area. What happens when you superimpose just the four urban boroughs on Shanghai? It completely dwarfs Shanghai in size. And we're not talking about true suburbs like Long Island or Jersey. We're talking about boroughs with 20,000 ppl per sq mile (Queens) to 34,000 per sq mile (Bronx) and 37,000 per sq mile (Brooklyn). Once you factor in the suburbs of Northern Jersey, Southern NY State and Long Island, the comparison is even greater. These boroughs are massive cities in their own right and cannot be excluded from any conversation about NYC, as they are both de facto and de jure part of the city.

It's important that we compare apples to apples and to say that Shanghai is larger than Manhattan by comparing the entire urban area of Shanghai to just Manhattan is grossly misleading.


Way Bigger?...... No Way.
You do know how double-standard you really are.

When talking about New York Metropolitan Area, you listed all these plausible areas.

While talking about Shanghai, you must had accidentally forgotten to include Suzhou's urban districts, and its two county-level satellite cities: Kunshan and Taicang (add up to more than 10 million people) to Shanghai's Metropolitan Area.
And as far as I know Shanghai's Metro System (World's Biggest in terms of total length) is connected to Kunshan's Metro System.

I think the spliff fairy might be able to give the approximate figure how big Shanghai Metropolitan Area is.
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I love Beijing ChaoyangMen, Rising Skyscrapers beyond it!


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Old April 21st, 2017, 01:46 PM   #109
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Suzhou: the Other Big Player in Shanghai's Metropolitan Area



2016 苏州金鸡湖-5 by Baishiya 白石崖, on Flickr


2016 苏州金鸡湖-9562 by Baishiya 白石崖, on Flickr










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I love Beijing ChaoyangMen, Rising Skyscrapers beyond it!

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Old April 21st, 2017, 11:01 PM   #110
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I think shanghai has larger area of highrises and its skyline also larger than new york


However i find new york has more densed skyline cluster
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Old April 21st, 2017, 11:16 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetscapeer View Post
I think you guys are losing sight of what was being discussed. I think the whole point was that some posters were equivocating the size of Manhattan with the small area of Pudong (Lujiazui) + the Bund vicinity. Someone even mentioned that Lujiazui is comparable to half of Manhattan in size. From the map overlays posted, that doesn't even hold true for the lower 2/3rds of Manhattan. The skyscraper portion of Lujiazui is more comparable the southern tip of Manhattan.

Then Germantower simply chimed in to say that Manhattan's size was being underestimated and that the areas of Shanghai it was being compared to were smaller. Which they are.
No they are not. If you look at what was said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
For scale the area in red (Lujiazui) is half the area of Manhattan. This new area still being built has a density significantly lower than the rest of the city - but is still 22,000 per sq km (Manhattan is 26,000 per sq km).

This is the red area in question compared to Manhattan. Pretty close to what he said (half the size).

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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:12 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little universe View Post


Way Bigger?...... No Way.
You do know how double-standard you really are.

When talking about New York Metropolitan Area, you listed all these plausible areas.

While talking about Shanghai, you must had accidentally forgotten to include Suzhou's urban districts, and its two county-level satellite cities: Kunshan and Taicang (add up to more than 10 million people) to Shanghai's Metropolitan Area.
And as far as I know Shanghai's Metro System (World's Biggest in terms of total length) is connected to Kunshan's Metro System.

I think the spliff fairy might be able to give the approximate figure how big Shanghai Metropolitan Area is.
Perhaps you should also include Changzhou and Wuxi in the Shanghai metropolitan area.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:30 AM   #113
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just for curiosity, take a look at shanghai at 1930

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangh..._S1_AMS-WO.jpg
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:34 AM   #114
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shanghai by satelite image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 03:54 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
Where on earth are you getting these stats from?

1. From what I can make out in the latest stats, 11% of all large buildings in SH are over 30 stories.

2. Also using 100m as a cut-off point, we'd still be talking about 1,500 residential highrises above that threshold, not 15. And beating Benidorm by a hundred to one.
Residential buildings above 100 metres, in Shanghai there are only about 15-20, no more, most of them are in 2 different compounds in Lujiazui. My stats are from my own experience (and looking in google earth), I have been living here for one year now and paying special attention to building heights and... no residential buildings over 33-34 floors, only in very few specific cases. Outside Lujiazui, I can remember only 6, 45 floors the tallest, maybe there are 2 or 3 more that I don't know, but not taller than 40 floors. It's quite impressive anyway, but it's not as crazy as you think before really looking into it in detail.
I can believe there are 1500 over 30 floors, but the figure would be super low if they put a cut-off in 35 floors / 101 metres.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:08 PM   #116
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I guess the best way to compare NY and SH is by personal impressions, it is impossible to define a limit for these cities
For me, NY is more extreme in skyscrapers, they are built taller and more close to each other, but it's ok, NY has being "growing" skyscrapers since 100 years before SH. Also SH has a way bigger area to develope without need to densify the downtown, and most new skyscrapers are being built like 10km far from the center, what is the correct way to grow the city, but worse for me that I like crazy dense city centers.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 07:14 PM   #117
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I visited both cities and they are really different and both have up and downsides to their skylines. New York City is extremely dense in Manhattan, but suffers from the rather low residential areas outside Manhattan. New York also has a lot of older skyscrapers, which makes it have very few facades that completely light up at night (it is however much better than most other cities in the US). Shanghai has very wide streets, which makes the skyline look not very dense. It has however a few extremely tall and extremely massive skyscrapers, which we all know and love. It also features a few skyscrapers that are basically one huge tv screen at night that puts Times Square to shame. Sadly Lujiazui has not many people though and it feels a bit lonely there, which can also be a good thing. New York has many historic buildings and Shanghai has many futuristic buildings. New York has some skinny and elegant skyscrapers, while Shanghai has really huge Towers. Both cities have a very different character and I think both cities should be beloved for different reasons and objectively no city is better than the other.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 08:02 PM   #118
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you forgot the bund, where there are old lowrises
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 10:36 PM   #119
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Emporis (that relies on submitted data) puts Shanghai at 845 buildings over 100m.

https://www.emporis.com/city/100213/...us/existing/43

For comparison, NYC has 723:

https://www.emporis.com/city/101028/...us/existing/37
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 10:40 PM   #120
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On the city size debate, I got these numbers: NYC Metro 8,683 square kilometers, Shanghai-Suzhou Metro 8,387 square kilometers. No idea what is counted to belong in either and I don't think it matters, bottom line is they're about the same size and there's no need whatsoever to fight over it.

The actual subject of what city has the most highrises is far more interesting, I'd really love to see accurate statistics for Moscow and especially Sao Paulo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
Emporis (that relies on submitted data) puts Shanghai at 845 buildings over 100m.

https://www.emporis.com/city/100213/...us/existing/43

For comparison, NYC has 723:

https://www.emporis.com/city/101028/...us/existing/37
Uh I used the same site for Hong Kong just now and the 100m buildings stop at #3,156, which is twice as many as Shanghai and NYC combined...

https://www.emporis.com/city/101300/...s/existing/158
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