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Old March 21st, 2016, 02:12 AM   #101
SoroushPersepolisi
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Im sorry but what is islamic architecture ? Did the muslim conquerors of arabia bring facade proportions or foundation engineering methods or architecture with them ? Islamic architecture doesnt exist, just look at some of the mosques
The ones in turkey are different to russia to africa to iran to india

These are architectures of buildings which happen to be in muslim areas or for muslim uses but these styles are from the native areas befor which have some common elements with other muslim-used buildings but they are not islamic itself
For example the lithianian examples are purely local atyled buildings
Nothing to do with anything that was a product of islamic philosophy or thought

The foundation of most of them is sassanid and byzantine architechture

what is even remotely islamic about this ? the city is russian, the architects are russian, the style is neoclassical (or on that family) with some strong moorish and levantine details

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Revenue House of Prince Muruzi / 1874-77 / St.-Petersburg / Arch. Nikolay Sultanov, Alexey Serebryakov & Pyotr Shestov
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Old March 31st, 2016, 12:15 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post

The foundation of most of them is sassanid and byzantine architechture
God, this fascist, ultra-nationalist Iranian drivel gets so tiresome and boring.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 12:35 PM   #103
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So Islamic architecture is a continuation, amalgamation, synthesis, and advancement of older provincial styles. So what?

The Persian Achaemenids, because they didn't have their own culture, appropriated the art, architecture, language, and alphabet of Semitic Mesopotamia (Assyria, Babylonia). So what? Do any people in Iraq troll the internet screaming and carrying on about how there's no such thing as Achaemenid architecture, that Persians copy/pasted the culture of Nineveh into Persepolis? No. Because this is how the history of architecture works, and they are not self-obsessed ultra-nationalists with an inferiority complex.

Do any Chinese scream, and troll the internet saying there is no Japanese, Korean, or Vietnamese architecture and culture because all of these had a starting point in Chinese culture. No.

Do any Greek people scream and troll the internet saying there is no such thing as English Georgian architecture because it's based on ancient Hellenic architecture. No.

Art and architecture are evolutionary, deal with it.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 12:44 PM   #104
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Old March 31st, 2016, 05:27 PM   #105
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Plovdiv, Bulgaria:


Plovdiv (12)
by Jim Hart, on Flickr


mosque in Plovdiv
by colours through my lens, on Flickr


Djumaya Mosque in Plovdiv
by Frans Sellies, on Flickr


BG-181 Dzhumaya Mosque, Plovdiv
by FO Travel, on Flickr


Lamp at Dzhumaya Mosque, Plovdiv
by John S Y Lee, on Flickr


dzhumaya mosque, Plovdiv, Bulgaria
by Fabrizio Pivari, on Flickr


Mosque in a twilight
by Galena Ivanova, on Flickr


Mosque
by Aneliya Kalaydzhiyan, on Flickr


Dzhumaya Mosque - Plovdiv - Interior
by Michele Moroni, on Flickr


Happy Friday! / Interior of the Djumaya Mosque in Plovdiv
by Frans Sellies, on Flickr


Interior of the Djumaya mosque in Plovdiv
by Frans Sellies, on Flickr
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Old March 31st, 2016, 05:34 PM   #106
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Few more:


Dzhumaya Mosque
by Andreas Welch, on Flickr


Djumaya mosque
by Eli В, on Flickr


Imaret Dzhamiya mosque, Plovdiv, Bulgaria
by - -, on Flickr


Plovdiv mosque
by [email protected], on Flickr


Plovdiv, Dzumaya Mosque, outside wall
by Villy Yovcheva, on Flickr


Plovdiv Mosque
by Robert Rosenthall, on Flickr


Mosque
by Enrico T., on Flickr
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 04:44 PM   #107
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Constanța, Romania



https://www.flickr.com/photos/images...t/18643754321/


K7AG6677
by Alexandru Guja, on Flickr


Constanta - Geamia
by Marius Brebenel, on Flickr


The "Carol I" Mosque in Constanta
by Gabriel, on Flickr


Constanta city, Romania
by phototouring, on Flickr


0008 Constanta, Romania
by Mark – Off to Chile, on Flickr


Moscheea Mahmud al II-lea
by Marius, on Flickr


https://www.flickr.com/photos/images.../187626a31364/
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Old April 3rd, 2016, 11:59 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWT View Post
God, this fascist, ultra-nationalist Iranian drivel gets so tiresome and boring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KWT View Post
So Islamic architecture is a continuation, amalgamation, synthesis, and advancement of older provincial styles. So what?

The Persian Achaemenids, because they didn't have their own culture, appropriated the art, architecture, language, and alphabet of Semitic Mesopotamia (Assyria, Babylonia). So what? Do any people in Iraq troll the internet screaming and carrying on about how there's no such thing as Achaemenid architecture, that Persians copy/pasted the culture of Nineveh into Persepolis? No. Because this is how the history of architecture works, and they are not self-obsessed ultra-nationalists with an inferiority complex.

Do any Chinese scream, and troll the internet saying there is no Japanese, Korean, or Vietnamese architecture and culture because all of these had a starting point in Chinese culture. No.

Do any Greek people scream and troll the internet saying there is no such thing as English Georgian architecture because it's based on ancient Hellenic architecture. No.

Art and architecture are evolutionary, deal with it.
with all due respect, i am not here to argue, but let me just make my point again
my friend, why so hostile and unnecessarily defensive ? the post that seems very angry and screaming is not mine
im sorry but you are not looking at the point i am making , instantly accusing others of trolling is a bit meaningless if read my post
it has nothing to do with the irrelevant words you have stated, being iranian or not is not my point, most examples here arent even much relevant to iranian architecture or sassanids or achaemenids for that matter
these buildings are mostly in various european and ottoman styles with admixtures from levantine and north african influences

i never even mentioned iranian or anything. in fact the contrary, i am supporting the pluralistic multi-dimensional nature of these buildings, where did you get fascism from? i hardly even support nationalism due to its rather meaningless nature.
i just stated as an example that the architecture of many islamic areas is a continuation of sassanid and byzantine stiles (from central asia to the balkans) , meaning that even if islam did not spread to those areas, the buildings would probably end up looking the same as they do now, without some minor elements


they (achaemenids) did have their own nomadic culture, perhaps not much in architecture surely, since they were mostly non-urban , which they adopted other people in the land prior to them and their neighbours and then created such distinct diversions of it that overtime it was branched out
yes each culture has such things
but the achamenids are not an ideology, nor are the greeks or english or japanese, they are plural cultures that have specific distinct physical characteristics , art and engineering included, and developed or adopted styles and methods and have documented them one way or another

islam is an ideology/culture that was not even trying or attempting to create a style of architecture . it has not actively created or even adopted a specific architectural style for the purpose of its teachings, it just happened to end up in certain areas and be associated with whatever architecture there was already there
maybe certain elements have evolved from islamic principles, like the lesser usage of imagery in mosques and elaborate minaret designs, but overall, there i no "style"

i said the grouping or label "islamic architecture" is not very meaningful or relative to what we are seeing in these photos, again, read the post

naming this massive range of styles , none which have anything to do with islamic philosophy nor have any root in a religion is incorrect, deal with it

infact, labelling these islamic is the real egoistic drivel which i find irrational and boring, its also rather fascist in nature, to forcefully authorize all of these very diverse styles under one umbrella. not national fascism but certainly theocratical
you cant seem to accept that most of these styles dont belong to islamic thought
dont look at every one with your own lenses
you see the word "sassanid" in my post and completely ignore and miss the remainder of what i have said to make some rash commentary to try to disprove my argument assumably because of the fact that i am iranian, and for some reason that seems to bother you . you have to make a statement trying to indirectly mention some inferiority complex that clearly is more vivid in your words and attitude

again, i stand at my point, this is the architecture of islamic functions or muslim areas, not islamic ideology itself, its irrelevant to muslim teachings
its the naming that is the issue here. a large number of the buildings here are the same as other buildngs found in europe, so why are these labelled islamic in style when in reality its the function that is for islamic purposes? i even gave an example of an apartment in my post yet you only jumped to my one mention of sassanid architecture and dismissed everything else
howcome you did not make a comment regarding my mention of byzantine architecture?


a title thread "mosque architecture" (though they are not all mosques) or "architecture of muslim/islamic buildings" would of been much more suitable


please do not make such drastic assumptions of other peoples' words and or comments and label people with the irrelevant adjectives that you come up with
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Old April 4th, 2016, 09:34 PM   #109
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dohany street synanogue in budapest, its not a mosque , but the style is certainly on the lines of many examples here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doh%C3..._Synagogue.jpg

alupka (vorontsov) palace in ukraine


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%...1%86%D1%83.jpg
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Old April 24th, 2016, 01:44 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post
Im sorry but what is islamic architecture ? Did the muslim conquerors of arabia bring facade proportions or foundation engineering methods or architecture with them
Yes we did bring engineering Methods , Aren't Marib dam considered the engineering Marvel of the ancient world ?? What did we take from Persian Architecture ?? Can you give Me example I'm Very curious to Know ??
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Old April 24th, 2016, 07:24 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post

i said the grouping or label "islamic architecture" is not very meaningful or relative to what we are seeing in these photos, again, read the post
In this case the term "Islamic" is equivalent to the term Western for example. I think it's accurate to group these architectural styles under one term since they are very similar to each other, it's just that they couldn't find a better term that doesn't involve the religion.
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Old April 30th, 2016, 01:43 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post
with all due respect, i am not here to argue, but let me just make my point again....
Iranians repeating, ad nauseam, on the internet and in the media in general, that the architecture of the Islamic world is actually Persian or Greek is just self-obsessed, nativist, vitriolic ultra-nationalism masked as some sort of "truth-telling" (as if the origins of Islamic architecture are some sort of secret).

None of this would exist without Islam (and I'm saying this as a completely irreligious person) just as Gothic architecture and Baroque architecture are completely "Christian" architectures even though they are not called that (this is the nature of semantics) and they have origins beyond Christianity.

Anyway sorry to derail this thread but I just find these sorts of "masked" comments deeply irritating.

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Old June 1st, 2016, 05:46 PM   #113
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please read the post again
its very clear
again nothing is masked , your just trying to make this in to some big deal

you are the one linking this to a national thing
thats your own perception

give or take, the same styles (or something close to them) would of existed regardless of religious developments,not in this exact form or course, since there would be no mosques and churches then
but overall, the same type of styles would exist

thats the point im trying to make, you cant seem to grasp that

if you think this is some iranian or greek superiority thing then thats for your lack of comprehension of the matter,or better to say paranoia of thinking someone is trying to take something from you , when they are actually trying to help identify the local culture whichever it might be
i can care less about nationalism
lets say its arab architecture, im fine with that , are you happy now?
if we say these are all arab styles I am more than willing to support that title
but stop mixing your dogmatic beliefs into architectural styles , and please review your pathetic racist and overly sensitive (which is contradictory) behavior

im not speaking on the behalf of iranians or anyone, im just saying that the semantics as you say is a bit out of place here
you cant see that im actually supporting local cultures here , not iran or anyone
i am repeating myself
your the one that seems to be self-obsessed and so nationalistic
if there is a mention of iran even if its not even against anything, you seem irritated for whatever reason


anyway, your perception is yours, nauseous in your own words maybe. take my opinion whichever way you think is most reasonable
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Old June 1st, 2016, 05:50 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinderman View Post
Yes we did bring engineering Methods , Aren't Marib dam considered the engineering Marvel of the ancient world ?? What did we take from Persian Architecture ?? Can you give Me example I'm Very curious to Know ??
I agree, but, who is "we"? are you refering to yemen or arabs? then the marib dam is a yemeni/arab achievement, it has nothing to do with islamic ideology
if yemenis were christian or atheist or shamanistic they would of also built the dam

i never said anyone took anything,
-im saying the term islamic for these diverse styles in inappropriate

did islamic ideology or the quran give you the ability to create those engineering methods?
these buildings and engineering methods etc are continuations of whatever was already there before (arab, assyrian, iranian, roman, syrian, nestorian , slavic , greek , egyptian etc)

is the concept of gravity "christian science" because newton was born in a christian family ?
does anyone consider opera garnier "christian architecture" ?

semantics is the exact thing im arguing here
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Old June 1st, 2016, 06:07 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by pedro646 View Post
In this case the term "Islamic" is equivalent to the term Western for example. I think it's accurate to group these architectural styles under one term since they are very similar to each other, it's just that they couldn't find a better term that doesn't involve the religion.
i understand, and that what i am speaking against

islam is an ideology while "western" is a vague geographical term that respects the different cultures of the region regardless of their religious views
its a more "natural" term
" western " encompasses the whole of the culture while when the term "islam" is used (or any other religion, christian, zoroastrian , jewish etc) eliminates any regional, non-religious aspect of the culture and just replaces it with a very overly-simplified group and lumps all the diverse cultures ideologies and styles into one group as if they are the same thing
when you say "islamic _____________" it seems to imply that islamic ideology was the creator of that concept
while this is very inaccurate


while infact they are not and sometimes even a specific aspect of these cultures (not only in architecture) contradicts the islamic ideology, while being labelled as islamic

"near eastern, middle eastern, levantine " etc would be much more appropriate

and the styles on this page are vastly irrelevant to eachother, i mean, hiw is this similar to anything that has to do with islam and even the other samples on this page ?
http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...i200908-06.jpg
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Old June 1st, 2016, 07:42 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post
I agree, but, who is "we"? are you refering to yemen? then the marib dam is a yemeni achievement, it has nothing to do with islamic ideology/culture
i never said marib dam was achievement of islam I'm not religious so i don't care about your debate with KWT whether It's Islamic or not , honestly the most accurate term would be Mideastern Architecture

Quote:
Did the muslim conquerors of arabia bring facade proportions or foundation engineering methods or architecture with them
That's what make me upset , you implying pre Islamic Arabia in bad way (Which is Persian are known for btw ) , it till me that you absolutely know nothing about pre Islamic Arab civilization

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post
i never said anyone took anything, -im saying the term islamic for these diverse styles in inappropriate
Are you sure ?

Quote:
The foundation of most of them is sassanid and byzantine architechture

You are kinda saying that Arab took Sassanian Architecture , Not true at all , yes Ummayad indeed were influenced by Byzantine obviously but Sassanian NO Not even close ! .


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post
did islamic ideology or the quran give you the ability to create those engineering methods?
How religion give us engineering methods ? All Religion with no exception are bullshit i come to that conclusion month ago and guess what ? I'm really happy , i don't know why you think that i was defending the Islamic architecture term .

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post
is the concept of gravity "christian science" because newton was born in a christian family ?
Again Mideastern scientist is better term , most of them were atheist at least the greatest/known ones

For example Hunian ibn Ishaq was great Arab scientist but he was not Muslim he was Christian so you are right It's absurd to call it Islamic science , but i get used to it every time i speak about Mideastern scientist i say Muslim scientist it's old habit of my old self

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunayn_ibn_Ishaq
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Old June 1st, 2016, 08:22 PM   #117
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[QUOTE=Slinderman;133155075]
Quote:
i never said marib dam was achievement of islam I'm not religious so i don't care about your debate with KWT whether It's Islamic or not , honestly the most accurate term would be Mideastern Architecture
I am saying the same thing
the term islamic is not very accurate
mideastern is much better


Quote:
That's what make me upset , you implying pre Islamic Arabia in bad way (Which is Persian are known for btw ) , it till me that you absolutely know nothing about pre Islamic Arab civilization
how did i imply them in a bad way and how do you know if i know nothing about arabian civilization?
i asked the question, did the muslim (not arabs as a whole, islamic warriors) conquerors of arabia bring facade proportions to the places they conquered ? im pretty sure no
since wherever muslims are , the architecture seems to be called "islamic", in relation to that assumption, i asked a rhetoric question its a very simple question, yes or no
most of the styles in the arabian peninsula were already well established prior to islam and were just continued
you misread the question

did arabs influence iranian styles ? of course, but that would of also happened if islam didnt exsit

most of these buildings here are styles that are made by arabs (arabic speaking peoples and ethnic arabs), moores, byzantines, (and some iranian of course) , not made from islam, so we should call it by geography/culture not by religion
thats all i am saying

Quote:
Are you sure ?

You are kinda saying that Arab took Sassanian Architecture , Not true at all , yes Ummayad indeed were influenced by Byzantine obviously but Sassanian NO Not even close ! .
i am sure that i never said anyone "took" these, and i never said arabs "took" styles from the sassanids
perhaps you thought i was saying that others "stole" etc but i never said that nor meant that


the example I gave about being rooted in iranian architecture was mostly for styles post islamic buildings existing in iran which are heavily based on older pre islamic iraninan buildings
labelling iranian mosques as "islamic" and also labelling byzantine mosques as "islamic" as if they are the same is ridiculous
thats what i mean
im saying iranian buildings would look like that in general if islam was not present, and so would lebanese and kuwaiti and saudi and yemeni buildings .they would all look similar to what they are now even if islam did not exist
i never said arabs took anything from iran or not
I said a lot of the buildings in the islamic world are heavily based on the past civilizations/locations/countries (as an example , pre islamic iran for iran, byzantine styles for turkey/balkans, native yemeni and pre islamic arabian styles for the arabian peninsula etc)





Quote:
How religion give us engineering methods ? All Religion with no exception are bullshit i come to that conclusion month ago and guess what ? I'm really happy , i don't know why you think that i was defending the Islamic architecture term .

Again Mideastern scientist is better term , most of them were atheist at least the greatest/known ones

For example Hunian ibn Ishaq was great Arab scientist but he was not Muslim he was Christian so you are right It's absurd to call it Islamic science , but i get used to it every time i speak about Mideastern scientist i say Muslim scientist it's old habit of my old self

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunayn_ibn_Ishaq
well then we are on the same page
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Old June 1st, 2016, 08:36 PM   #118
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i disagree with you in some points but it's okay

I think we agree that Mideastern architecture , Mideastern scientist , is definitely better terms
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Old June 4th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #119
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I will post some Arab dynasties architecture in Spain

Umayyad mosque , built in 784 A.D




































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Old June 4th, 2016, 04:46 PM   #120
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Palermo, Sicily - Italy

Church of San Cataldo






Palermo: San Cataldo by Stijn Nieuwendijk, su Flickr
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