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Old October 14th, 2015, 05:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevlargeist View Post
The same thing bugs me in Helsinki. It's gotten better though, but they're still building blocks that are semi-open, instead of good old perimeter blocks. Resulting in a restless and incoherent cityscape.
There has to be some advantage to it, right? I mean I don't see it, but if there wasn't something good with it, then why insist on it?
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Old October 14th, 2015, 05:56 PM   #22
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Depends on the case, but sometimes it's due to sun/shade and "air" arguments, other times the target market is children families that don't want to live in a development that has urban connotations and other times it's just the same developers that are using the same, basic formula since the 60s. Why? Cause they can and cause they see it as rational to be risk averse.

We're struggling with the same, the only thing that is going to change this is urban preferences in the general population, so that these apartments don't get sold or for central planners to demand developments with an urban character (instead they demand "good living conditions" leading to these types of developments). It has become better lately with urban movements and awareness around the western world having gained momentum, but it's far from done. In the end, it's about zeitgeist.

Since most of us agree on this forum, we tend to think that most ppl in society agree with our views, but I'm afraid they don't.. and most of them have never really given it a thought or asked themselves why the suburbs from the 60s are so undesirable.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 06:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by EaglesnButterflies View Post
There has to be some advantage to it, right? I mean I don't see it, but if there wasn't something good with it, then why insist on it?
Two advantages:
Cheaper & easier to design since they don't have to do as many corner buildings/apartments. Their whole internal processes is set up to create slabs-in-a-park so that's what they default to.
Access for emergency vehicles.

Plenty of advantages to closing them tho, and the access for fire trucks can be solved by portals on a side street. Less noise, better for kids, more apartments, people flow keeping to the sidewalks where businesses are located, .... the good stuff goes on and on.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 06:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by OnTheNorthRoad View Post
Depends on the case, but sometimes it's due to sun/shade and "air" arguments, other times the target market is children families that don't want to live in a development that has urban connotations[...]
The sun "argument" (and laws) is built on studies on how housewives use apartments with sun (and view) to the south and no sun (and no view) to the north. (at least this is the case for Sweden).
"air" is also pure BS, if anything the air is better with closed blocks.
The market for families is very much looking for urbanity. At least in Stockholm this has been clear for years and years. Partly due to all the positive effects of urbanity, but also because the courtyard can be made very child-friendly and safe - which open "blocks" don't permit due to the kids always being able to run right out into the streets.
/mad at the developers, not you bro.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 06:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheNorthRoad View Post
Since most of us agree on this forum, we tend to think that most ppl in society agree with our views, but I'm afraid they don't.. and most of them have never really given it a thought or asked themselves why the suburbs from the 60s are so undesirable.
But then again, the "old-fashioned" perimeter blocks usually are the most sought-after and thus also the highest-priced blocks, with people gushing over the cozy courtyards etc.

The demand is there.. It's just the costs and accessibility factors listed by Swede that are somehow getting more attention.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 07:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
The sun "argument" (and laws) is built on studies on how housewives use apartments with sun (and view) to the south and no sun (and no view) to the north. (at least this is the case for Sweden).
"air" is also pure BS, if anything the air is better with closed blocks.
The market for families is very much looking for urbanity. At least in Stockholm this has been clear for years and years. Partly due to all the positive effects of urbanity, but also because the courtyard can be made very child-friendly and safe - which open "blocks" don't permit due to the kids always being able to run right out into the streets.
/mad at the developers, not you bro.
I'm mad too

I agree of course. I think it's difficult to say which market is looking for what, but I was trying to see it from the point of view of the developers. We've seen also that preferences have polarized, so that most ppl if they can choose either want to live in real urban hoods in the inner city or they prefer to move out to the villa areas often outside the administrative limits. The areas that are becoming less attractive, at least from studying moving patterns, are the towers in parks-type of suburbs.

But there is unfortunately still a market for these semi-urban types of developments, and I think the symbiosis between the regulations and the risk averseness and inflexibility of the old developers and this faithful market is the reason why we still see so many of these undesirable developments.

One of the problems is that the added value of urban development is shared by the entire city, not only those who buy the apartments (maybe the high share of ownership in our city leads ppl to have a longer perspective (=less urban preferences)), and since the market transaction doesn't take all of this added value into account, the city has to intervene.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 08:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
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other times the target market is children families that don't want to live in a development that has urban connotations
To be clear, I meant they target (the specific) children families that dont want to live in urban developments, not that children families in general don't want to live in urban developments.
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Old October 16th, 2015, 11:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheNorthRoad View Post
I'm mad too


Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheNorthRoad View Post
I agree of course. I think it's difficult to say which market is looking for what, but I was trying to see it from the point of view of the developers. We've seen also that preferences have polarized, so that most ppl if they can choose either want to live in real urban hoods in the inner city or they prefer to move out to the villa areas often outside the administrative limits. The areas that are becoming less attractive, at least from studying moving patterns, are the towers in parks-type of suburbs.
But have those actually been attractive? The apartments sure were better then in the old cores in the 1960s, but the planning? It didn't stay "yay, new!" for long.
Also: it *is known* what the market is looking for! A study of what affects prices in Stockholm has been made: http://www.spacescape.se/2011/04/v%C...stadskvalitet/
1. Walking- and streetgrid-distance to the Central Station

2. Walking distance 500m or less to a subway, commuterrail or tram station/stop

3. Access to a walkable streetgrid. Centrality of the street&walkpath to 12 axialsteps radius (space syntax)

4. Access to urban services. Number of resturants, niche shops and culture within 1 km walking.

5. Park size within 1km walking (note: NOT greenspace. Has to be an actual park)

6. water features larger than 5 ha within walking distance.

7. Block shape! how closed the blocks are and number of entrances facing the street side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheNorthRoad View Post
But there is unfortunately still a market for these semi-urban types of developments, and I think the symbiosis between the regulations and the risk averseness and inflexibility of the old developers and this faithful market is the reason why we still see so many of these undesirable developments.
The market is there because the market for housing over-all is so crazy. You can sell pretty much anything here. Also, people are used to the anti-urban modernist tower-in-a-park suburbia since that's what's been built for the last 80 years. So moving to a new one is mostly seen as "yay, brand new apartment". The market for the modernist enclaves would shrink drastically if more urban hoods were built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheNorthRoad View Post
One of the problems is that the added value of urban development is shared by the entire city, not only those who buy the apartments (maybe the high share of ownership in our city leads ppl to have a longer perspective (=less urban preferences)), and since the market transaction doesn't take all of this added value into account, the city has to intervene.
Yes, the City has to intervene. The City has all the power over planning. It really is up to the City what is built. They can turn down a plan on pretty much any pretense (ALL plans have to get approved by the politicians). So the solution is for the City to start demanding urbanity and for the City (who always does the urban planning) to actually do URBAN planning.
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Old October 22nd, 2015, 06:17 PM   #29
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Some pictures of the existing buildings:

Etapp Norra 1, Erik Wallin by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

Etapp Norra 1, Reinhold Gustafsson by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

Etapp Norra 1, Lennart Ericsson by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

Etapp Norra 1, Lennart Ericsson by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

Etapp Norra 1, Erik Wallin by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

Etapp Norra 1 by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

Etapp Västra, Förskola by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr
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Old October 24th, 2015, 01:39 AM   #30
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A few more visualisations of the Gasverket section:


Source


Source


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Old October 25th, 2015, 10:49 PM   #31
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Hjorthagen area with a 140 m skyscraper Gasklockan (Herzog & de Meuron):


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Old October 27th, 2015, 01:13 AM   #32
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I don't know why, but something about that skyscraper makes me think about soviet futurism.
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Old October 28th, 2015, 11:39 PM   #33
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This is how the Hjorthagen area looked like almost 10 years ago:

Development area 2006 by Stockholm Royal Seaport, on Flickr

In the future:

Illustration: Adept & Mandaworks by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr
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Old October 30th, 2015, 01:29 PM   #34
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Awesome! Great project
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Old November 28th, 2015, 01:31 AM   #35
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Some lighting event recently took place in the Gasverket area which will be converted to public spaces and a music hotel.

Ljussättning av Mätarehuset by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

Ljussättning av Gasklocka 2, 3, 4 och 5 by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

Ljussättning av tegelgasklocka och byggnader i Gasverket by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr

One of the few gasometers

Ljussättning av Gasklocka 1 by Norra Djurgårdsstaden, on Flickr
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 06:23 PM   #36
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This year the UN prize for the Best sustainable city development went to the ongoing project Norra Djurgårdsstaden/Stockholm Royal Seaport in Stockholm. The prize was handed in to the city councillor of Stockholm Municipality Karin Wanngård during the C40 (Cities Climate Leadership Group) Awards event in Paris.
The project was praised for the sustainable solutions applied in planning and construction process which are inspirational for other sustainable city development projects worldwide. Norra Djurgårdsstaden or Stockholm Royal Seaport in English is a large area of central Stockholm that is undergoing brownfield redevelopment.


Source


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More information: http://www.stockholmsbyggnyheter.se/...jurg-rdsstaden.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 05:59 PM   #37
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It might be the best of the competing plans, but it leaves a lot to be desired. How hard is it to go fully urban?
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Old November 24th, 2016, 05:38 PM   #38
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Southern portion of the Stockholm Royal Seaport (Södra Värtahmanen)

Coming up, some renders of what is planned in the southern portion of the Stockholm Royal Seaport, i.e. this area:




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Old November 24th, 2016, 05:40 PM   #39
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Location no. 17 / M2

Erik Wallin has selected the architecture firm for their project in the soutern part of the Stockholm Royal Seaport. The project includes 41 apartments and a preschool. Construction is expected to begin in 2019.




Location no. 17

Source:

https://erikwallin.se/projekt/m2-sodra-vartan/
http://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/erik-wa...ter-m2-1424161
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Old November 24th, 2016, 05:44 PM   #40
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Locations 6 and 8

Bonnier Fastigheter, locations 6 and 8:


Hangö (LINK Arkitektur)




"Piren" (AIX Arkitekter)

Source:

http://www.aix.se/aix-formger-bonnie...-sodra-vartan/
http://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/bonnier...aertan-1606957
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