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Old May 3rd, 2006, 07:29 PM   #281
Totoro
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You've been talking about croatian air force before on this thread so this shouldn't be too off topic.

I simply must point out a couple of things:

Czech republic signed a leasing contract which runs for ten years to 30 September 2015, provides for 21,000 flying hours and sets guarantees with regard to operational ready rates. The fixed price of 19,650 billion Czech korun (Euro645.13 million), which is to be paid in ten annual instalments, does not of course include either fuel or weapon systems. Pricetag does include training of pilots and ground crews in Sweden, building of necesarry infrastructure, etc. Weapon systems prices are likely to add another 50-100 million euros.

To better illustrate, hungary has ordered 40 amraams for their gripens, a deal which cost them 19 million euros. Similarly to czechs, hungary has paid handsomly for their gripens, too, some 170 million forints which would be around 690 milllion euros. Difference in price is due to offset programs of various companies investing in country which does the purchase, which seems to be the way of doing business nowadays.

Price of recently ordered f16s for poland and greece are also comparable. So, to make long story short - I would seriously doubt croatia can afford even 12 brand new fighters, let alone 24. Most realistic way seems to be used fighters, and if that turns out to be the case, Sweden is again looking good, as it seems they will be retiring some of their 'old' gripen A/B models - lots of life in those airframes left, still vastly superior to mig21s and comparable to to all but most modern f16s tech wise.

As far as helicopters go, mi24 are not airworthy and there are no plans to modernize them. It's very likely they will be scrapped. 8 mi-8 have been modernised in 2003 and 10 more are planned to undergo major overhauls during this year. I guess that means the russian debt mi-17s wont be coming any time soon.

To get more on topic - second runway for zagreb airport is absolutely not needed. No matter what EU recommends, there are numerous examples of airports with far greater number of air operations per year that feature just one runway. While i do agree it'd be wise to purchase lands where some day in the far future that second runway might be built, for the next 15-20 years i think it's very doubtful that zagreb would need another runway. If properly reconstructed, with well poisitioned taxiways and access points, a single runway can provide for 80 operations per hour.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 05:18 PM   #282
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But this is not about the trafic! 2nd rwy is needed for safety also. In Zagreb you have heavy snow and fog. When a blizzard hits you must close one rwy for cleaning, while the other one is active. This hapens fearly often in Zagreb. They close the apt for some half an hour, and all plaines (on landing) have to wait in the air for the cleaning to be done. Not to menion some minor accidents (like tire blowup) that close the apt for hours, until the plane can be towed to the hangar.

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Old May 5th, 2006, 09:05 PM   #283
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That is all nice and dandy and good to have if you can afford it. Not in the absolute terms of course but in the cost effectiveness terms. And right now, with the amount of money going for the terminal itself, i doubt there'll be any money for the second runway anytime soon.

With proper hauling equipment the blown tire issue can be remedied fairly quickly and free up the runway. As for blizzards, if its a really heavy blizzard then there won't be any flights anyway, no matter how many runways you have. And if its weak enough for landings to take place, cleaning crews would most likely be able to deal with new snow between the air operations. One has to keep in mind it'd be winter, not exactly the busiest season for zg airport. Of course, as traffic does increase, it will be harder and harder to pull that off, and perhaps there will be 5 min waits, then 10 min waits, etc... but money lost from those compared to money needed to build and maintain new runway would still be just a small fraction of the latter, even throughout the years.

Realistically, i don't think zg airport needs nor will it get another runway before 2020 at the earliest.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 06:57 PM   #284
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Totoro, you point about Gripen's is valid, but entirely true, Czech Republic and Hungary did sign offset deal, they had a choice of not to, cost of single Gripen including weapons systems and training is only 27.7 million U$. If Croatia buys the system s outright it can dispense with the corporate bs,

BTW Offset deals are common nowadays, but it is highly unlikely Croatia will agree on this deal, outright deal for 12 New grips at cost of 350 million U$ will be made once Croatia deems new aircrafts are necessary.

Hungary is fine example of how bad offset deals can be when seller does not stick to the agreed, and when promised investment bring no join or value for money spent on procurement of aircrafts...

As to 2nd runway, it is all relative, cost of 2nd runway is 20€ million, right now Airport hasn't got this funds and therefore it is unlikely 2nd runway will be built anytime soon, but after 2010, 2nd runway will be imperative if nothing but due to the cost of not building 2nd runway...
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Old May 6th, 2006, 10:53 PM   #285
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There is a vast difference between the so-called "fly away" price of an aircraft on the one hand, and a package cost. The former is the aircraft "as is", with no spare engines or other spares, no engine test beds or avionics test benches, no specialised ground support equipment, no pilot training simulators, no pilot training and no ground crew and technical personnel training, and no support to the local industry to prepare to support the aircraft through a service life of 20 to 30 years. The latter will include all of those things. The difference can be as much as 100% or even more in some cases. I say 27 million is at best the fly away price, you say it's full price including even weapons. I say true price croatia would pay for getting a gripen to be operational is close to 60 million dollars. South africa bought 28 new gripens, with small offset deal, they payed 65 million dollars per plane and several articles concerning the deal said the price without offset deals amounts to 57 million.

I guess we can only agree to disagree here.

As for 2nd runway at zagreb airport, we're pretty much agreeing it's gonna be needed one day. It is just my opinion that, according to projected traffic increase rate, the losses of not having another runway will not overtake the gains of not spending for its construction before 2020, at the earliest.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 06:18 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic of Orion
OK, just got few pisc and architectural designs for Dubrovnik Airport ands what is going to look like after modernisation in 2009. You can clearly see where new terminal extension is going to be and 4 PBB's, once the capacity is reached terminal will get enlarged again to accommodate 4 more PBB's and capacity increase to 8 million passengers a year...






The new look Dubrovnik International Airport will certainly be the best looking one in the region.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 02:59 AM   #287
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I totally agree SC, even now it looks way cool...
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Old June 10th, 2006, 01:35 AM   #288
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The construction of the airport 4* hotel has started recently at Zagreb Intl.

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Old June 10th, 2006, 08:19 PM   #289
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nice one mate,
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Old June 11th, 2006, 04:40 AM   #290
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great
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Old June 14th, 2006, 10:03 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liluchi
great
Yes, it is!
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Old June 19th, 2006, 03:03 PM   #292
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I've took some videos at Split Intl. Link ==> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C6UTRO30

Sceenshots:


















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Old June 19th, 2006, 03:36 PM   #293
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nice pictures!! Flew on Croatia airlines there, it was good.
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Old June 19th, 2006, 11:06 PM   #294
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Talking of split airport, an article in today's metro newspaper said that this past saturday 82 planes landed at the airport which is a record. 15 000 passengers went through the airport for that day. Overall traffic level for the year is so far 12.5 % higher during the same timeframe last year.

Last edited by Totoro; June 19th, 2006 at 11:21 PM.
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Old June 21st, 2006, 02:05 AM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subangite
Flew on Croatia airlines there, it was good.
I love their flight attendents!
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Old June 21st, 2006, 12:13 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mate_Balota
I love their flight attendents!
Me too!! The flight I was in had female pilots, they were great too.
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Old June 21st, 2006, 01:14 PM   #297
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Quote:
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Me too!! The flight I was in had female pilots, they were great too.
I love to be "flown" by a woman!
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Old June 21st, 2006, 10:52 PM   #298
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hahha,mate balota, I don't blame you at all

young bebe on you video clips is so fine
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Old June 21st, 2006, 11:58 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodrom
young bebe on you video clips is so fine
Young who?
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Old June 24th, 2006, 08:24 PM   #300
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I thougt, that was you on the photo
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