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Old November 1st, 2005, 11:10 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic of Orion
Don't know, but Belgrade one coasted about 60 million
It's quite cheap considering it will employ an estimated 20,000-30,000 people. The Serbian Capital Investment ministry said (god help us) that Belgrade will focus to become a prime cargo hub of South-Eastern Europe.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 03:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]_SaNtOs
It's quite cheap considering it will employ an estimated 20,000-30,000 people. The Serbian Capital Investment ministry said (god help us) that Belgrade will focus to become a prime cargo hub of South-Eastern Europe.

what is the size of this cargo terminal?

You mean 30 000 in all could benefit from new cargo terminal (creating secondary jobs in support and servicing the terminal) I strongly doubt 30 000 would actually work at the terminal, even Amsterdam Airport has less than 10 000 staff and this is largest cargo terminal in Europe...

In any case it is great news for Belgrade as it needs something to pump the economy...


I doubt Zagreb will go with new Cargo terminal asp... although medium sized facility is in works (about 12 000sqm capacity about 50 000 metric tones) and this smaller cargo terminal could cost as much as 30€ million...

New passenger terminal is a priority and completion should be announced any time soon for architectural design for the airport, construction of new terminal should start April 2006 with completion dates sometimes in first half of 2008..

Airport Authorities are looking at 12-15 sky bridges and about 50-58000sqm passenger terminal all in price tag of 125€ million, another 45€ million going to be spent on new cargo terminal and 2nd runway...
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Old November 1st, 2005, 08:42 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic of Orion
another 45€ million going to be spent on new cargo terminal and 2nd runway...
I don t think the runway will be that cheap. We allready discussed this.
About 20€ million will be the runway alone,but the ground with all of those 700 ilegal houses will be between 35€ mil and 70€mil (700 x 50 000€ = 35 000 000€,700 x 100 000€ = 70 000 000€). New homes need to be built for those idiots!
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 12:09 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mate_Balota
I don t think the runway will be that cheap. We allready discussed this.
About 20€ million will be the runway alone,but the ground with all of those 700 ilegal houses will be between 35€ mil and 70€mil (700 x 50 000€ = 35 000 000€,700 x 100 000€ = 70 000 000€). New homes need to be built for those idiots!

I agree, bill will be picked up by the state or City of Zagreb directly, it has nothing to do with the airport,

I think bill should not exceed, 40€ million, government actually might build substitute homes and house for ppl before they start knocking down houses illegally built on Airport land...

it is only about 600 homes at most, and few barns and stuff...

PS, I estimate for clearing illegal houses and bulldozing would take at least 6 months, could be year, than clearing and levelling land - 3-4 months, laying electric and signalling cables, water and drainage system, would take another month or two, when done with all of this construction of runway could start, it might take about 8-14 months depending on Croatian contractors to complete construction of the runway and another 2-3 months for signalisation and stuff...

Price, you are right, should not exceed 20€ million or 24 million US$ for 4km runway...

They plan to build new 32 000sqm passenger terminal with 7 sky-bridges (is it avio-mostovi), thus increasing the capacity of the airport to 5 million... Works should start in 2006, I'll do update on Ljubljana Airport soon...


ATM, best airport what was former Yugoslavia is Split I think, Sarajevo and Dubrovnik are fighting for 2nd and 3rd position, Sarajevo Airport has great interior...

Worst Airport in what was Yugoslavia, I think Pula and Zagreb are fighting for last place, lol... Hopefully not for long...
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Last edited by mic of Orion; December 31st, 2005 at 02:38 AM.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 08:27 PM   #85
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Quote:
Did you also know Zagreb is only Airport in the what was former Yugoslavia to have CAT IIIB category for its runway... I think Ljubljana will get it soon as well, when they build new terminal, Actually I'll update about Ljubljana new terminal here as they don't have there own thread...
Yes,they got it in 2004. That was the only major upgrade for the airport from 1976. when they extended the runway! Sad isn t it?

As for the runway I just hope they start all this in about 3-4 years,beacuse if they don t they will be in deep s*it! When the EU inspectors are done with them there won t be an airport to fly to!

I just hope I m wrong!



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Old November 2nd, 2005, 08:44 PM   #86
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^lol, I don't think EU will shut the airport down, they'll recommend for 2nd runway asp,. as the nearest major airport in region is about 340km away, it is very important for all major airports to have 2 runways primarily bc of emergencies, 1 runway can easily handle current traffic and even way in the future, as long the runway is extended to say 4km, single runway can handle about 20 landings and 20 take offs, this is per hour, or about 300 take offs and same number of landings per 15 hour day (2 shifts)...

But having 2 runways can deal with any eventualities and one runway can exclusively be used for landings and one for taker offs...
with 2 runways you can land 70 Aircrafts per hour or about 1000 landings and takes offs per day, increasing capacity of the airport to 364 000 landings and 364 000 take offs per year... Mate you are from Split what is in Divulje is there another Airport with runway, I know there are some sort of underground shelters for fighters, I've seen Mig21's being moved inside the mountain...

Is there 2nd runway there? got any ideas?
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 08:58 PM   #87
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Ljubljana Airport, Slovenia,
10 000sqm Terminal,
3400x45m Runway
Passengers: 1.22 million (2005)

A short video of future developments at the Ljubljana Airport...
http://www.lju-airport.si/eng/ASPDatoteka.asp?ID=159


Planning project

The expansion of the airport is planned on both the north and south sides, and the north side has precedence for expansion. The expansion of the airport on the north side encompasses:
1. Newly planned and expanded passenger terminal facilities, which will include the following features:
- A business centre;
- Facilities for business administration programmes with car parks;
- A hotel complex;
- Recreational and sports facilities;
- Areas and facilities for freight warehousing;
- Production and business facilities;
- Facilities for aircraft and airport maintenance activity; and
- Facilities for special purposes.
2. Rerouting of the KranjMengeš main road on the section adjacent to the airport further to the north, ensuring the necessary space for the development of airport activities and related commercial activities as well as improving access to the airport;
3. Arrangement of a new road system and car parks in the airport area;
4. Construction of power and municipal infrastructure in line with development needs.
On the south side of the airport there is room for:
1. An additional runway (if necessary), new taxiways and landing platforms in the future.
2. Facilities for freight warehousing, production and business facilities, aircraft maintenance facilities, facilities for business administration programmes with car parks, facilities for special purposes and arrangement of the road system.


New passenger terminal


One result of growing air traffic at Ljubljana Airport and Slovenia's entry into the European Union, which requires the separation of traffic into Schengen and non-Schengen (domestic and foreign), is the planned construction of a new airport terminal.

The current terminal will be renovated and linked to the new terminal by a connecting walkway that will include seven boarding bridges. The capacity of the new terminal will be 850 departing passengers per hour and 850 arriving passengers per hour. An IATA level C standard of services is envisaged to ensure the necessary quality for passenger arrivals and departures. The planning took into account both international and domestic regulations and standards for such facilities and equipment.

The new terminal will be expanded to 32,000 square meters, where 40 check-in counters will be set up, including some automatic ones. The complete separation of Schengen and non-Schengen traffic will be ensured, as well as the separation of arriving and departing passengers. Luggage will be thoroughly inspected and the installation of three luggage carousels is planned for luggage pick-up. There will be room in the terminal for airlines, travel agencies, restaurants and shops, and there are also plans for business lounges and additional services for passengers.


Future terminal


Current terminal






New hangar
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 01:28 AM   #88
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Here are some Pleso pics:





Aeral view:


ILS maintinence house and a croatian coat of arms made out of flowers in front of the RWY 05 (fopefully RWY 05L soon ):


On T/O from RWY 05:
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 02:11 AM   #89
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You just opend such a subject that will take hours to "present".

OK,let s start!


1. Divulje








Divulje is just a helicopter airbase. But across the way (to the north) is a secret underground base which houses MiG-s! There are some people who have seen MiG-s beeing towed across the road and through a crash gate to RWY 05! This is a fact!

2. Kozjak

In Kozjak mountin is allso an underground airbase. During the war (mentaly OK ) people used to see MiG-s just flying into the mountin. They expected to hear an explosion,but there was just silence! This underground runway is probobly conected to the base described earlier.

3. Mosor

Some people saw helicopters just landing into the mountin. Like Kozjak only verticaly. So this is a heliport.

4. Lika

There are numerous acounts of people seeing aircraft flying into the mountins (Velebit,Dinara...) like in the Kozjak case.

5. Željava

Podzemni svijet Početak izgradnje Aerodroma Željava vezan je za daleku 1948. godinu, kada se počelo sa izborom i iznalaženjem mikrolokacija za pozicioniranje ovog velikog aerodromskog kompleksa. Izgradnja je, zajedno sa projektovanjem, trajala sve do 1968. i ta se godina ujedno smatra i godinom izgradnje: tada je sa Aerodroma Pleso u Zagrebu preletio čitav 117. lovački avijacijski puk (LAP) u Bihać!?

Infrastrukturu ovog aerodroma čini podzemni kompleks tunela i galerija ukupne dužine 2,7 kilometara, projektovan i dimenzioniran tako da može, na čuvanje od raketnog i atomskog udara, primiti između 60 i 80 supersoničnih aviona MIG-21. Istovremeno, taj je podzemni svijet pružao sve mogućnosti preživljavanja: imao je sopstvenu radionicu za opravku aviona, magacin za smještaj rezervnih dijelova aviona i opreme, kao i za smještaj i sigurno čuvanje i tehničko održavanje bitnih zaliha, tada izuzetno bogate palete oružja koje je avion MIG-21 nosio.

Aerodrom je raspolagao i velikom energanom za napajanje električnom energijom, te savremeni centar veze sa komandnim mjestom zrakoplovnog korpusa. Na ovom operatorskom centru su se objedinjavali svi podaci o stanju u vazdušnom prostoru bivše Jugoslavije, što je bilo omogućeno mrežom radara koji su bili postavljeni na Plješevici, u Zadru, na Kozari, Biokovu, u Puli, zatim na Vrhonici, u Sisku, Bjelovaru itd. Unutar aerodroma bile su i učionice i radni prostor za cijeli avijacijski bataljon: 110 pilota i ostalih tehničara, oficira, podoficira - ukupno oko 900 ljudi. Svi podzemni prostori za njih su bili osvijetljeni i klimatizirani sa mogućnošću konstantnog održavanja podnošljive temperature i vlage zraka.

Posebna pažnja vodila se o sustavu protupožarne zaštite: pored straže, aerodrom se čuvao i elektronskim kamerama na pet pista, od kojih su dvije bile poletno-sletne, sa dimenzijama za slijetanje i najvećih transportnih aviona. Tu se nalazilo i pet stajanki za avione na otvorenom kao i prateće staze za vožnje, koje su povezivale ove piste.

Sve je ovo pratio i kompletan sastav za navigaciju, a sve je zauzimalo prostor devet puta četiri kilometra, od čega je pola "parcele" na teritoriji Bosne i Hercegovine, a pola na teritoriji Hrvatske. Cijena gradnje aerodroma bila je između tri i četiri milijarde dolara! Što je ravno ulaganju u Bosnu i Hercegovinu od Daytona naovamo.

Nikad više vojni aerodrom Početkom 1992, tadašnja Jugoslovenska narodna armija je opremu i avione prebacila u Srbiju, a svi objekti su potpuno razoreni. Pričinjena šteta je fantastično velika, a posljednji udar je izveden u prvim satima 18. maja 1992, kada su od eksplozija Bihać i okolina podrhtavali.

Stručnjaci za zrakoplovstvo danas tvrde: Željava nikada više neće biti vojni aerodrom. Ipak, mogućnost obnove postoji, posebno nadzemnog dijela i ostale vanjske infrastrukture.

Što se tiče podzemnog dijela, projekat bi bio previše skup i nepotreban, s obzirom na lokaciju. Vanjska obnova bi, međutim, mogla značiti nešto privredama BiH i Hrvatske, posebno komercijalnim letovima domaćih kompanija i razvoju putničkog i teretnog saobraćaja, te čarter--letova. Ovo bi opet doprinijelo razvoju i afirmaciji turizma, jer u neposrednoj blizini su Nacionalni park Plitvice i sliv rijeke Une. Osim ako NATO ne procijeni drugačije

http://www.bhdani.com/arhiva/265/t26508.shtml
http://www.studentnet.hr/mjesta/show/284/
http://www.nato.int/sfor/indexinf/164/p15a/t02p15a.htm
http://members.fortunecity.com/arisak/NOVE-SLIKE2.html
http://www.mycity.co.yu/phpbb/viewto...9fda40d#141464

I allso have some videos. If you are interested give me your mail and I ll send them to you.
















6.Yugoslavija

There are numerous underground bases constucted during Tito time! I think it goes like this:

Slovenia 1x
Croatia 4x
Bosnia 4x
Serbia 5x
Macedonia 2x

These facileties were so sofisticated that you could run the whole country from there for months out of time!

7. YU supersonic

There were allso plans to make a supersonic jet fighter like Gripen in colaboration with the Romania!







http://models.lemut.net/YU-Supersonic/

This is most of my knowlage. If you find obout something more let me know.

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Last edited by Ballota; November 3rd, 2005 at 01:46 PM.
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 03:06 AM   #90
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great find Mate, wow, I am chuffed, great stuff...

BTW you know Croatia is looking to get new Combat Aircraft, 24 of them, 12+12 (2010-15) most likely contenders are F16E/F Block 60 and JAS 39 Gripen A/B hopefully
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 01:54 PM   #91
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As much as we want it to be Gripens they will probobly be F-16s.

The govermant needs to such up to the Yankees,especilay after not sining the act of "non-delivery" of their soldiers to Hague.

Yuck!

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Old November 3rd, 2005, 02:45 PM   #92
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I am afraid of this to, government might reconcile and get stupid F16's, If Racan was PM, he would get Gripens, he is not to particular of Americans, he is lefty and he sees America as to domineering, with Sanader, nobody knows, he is afraid ratifying immunity for American Solders, as this would split the parliament downright the middle and could end up with new elections, but he is pro-Bush and would like to do something good to improve rather strenuous relations with US.

When Clinton was in White House Croatia had excellent relationship with US, with Bush in charge, situation is quite the opposite...
I think I'm afraid F16's might be what Croatia ends up with, I am just of the opinion Gripens are better, they have many new inovations which F16's (block 52 and 60) lack, also Gripens look less intimidating...

Hopefully money will play major issue and Gripens might squeeze in the end, I know budget atm is quite small only 1.7% of GDP which way bellow NATO requirements (2.1% minimum requirement for NATO members)..

Defence budget for 2005 was only 587 million U$...
For 2008 should be 1 billion U$ if Croatia is to join NATO... New Aircrafts would cost about 700 million US$ for 24 New Gripens and 950 million for 24 F16E/F block 60 aircraft...

* Croatia plans at first to acquire 12 new combat aircraft by the end of decade and than 12 more in fist half of next decade when 12 Mig 21's face retireing...

6 two-setter might be acquired in 2014/15 to help with training of new pilots... Bringing total to 30 Gripens and price tag of about 1.2 billion U$ for 30 Aircraft over 5 years...

Another major headache will most likely be new Helicopters, 30 are required, Most probably NH90 from Eurocopter (about 500€ million deal) and 6-12 Naval Helicopters probably Eurocopter or French Panther might fill this role a contract valued at 200€ million...

Any other major expenditures, perhaps purchase of 10-12 more Bell 206 JET Rangers for training and utility needs, replacements for 6 Bell 212 is also needed quite soon, replacement for 6 Mill 24 Hinds, perhaps AH64 D longbow or Tiger are best candidates (contract valued at 200 million U$)...

Perhaps 8-10 CH53G might be donated by Germany for heavy lift capability, note, this is only perhaps... Germans want to get rid of about 30-40 CH53G's as they are reducing Air force size...

Croatia might get 6-8 more PC -9 or PC21 Turboprop Trainers primarily to replace ones no longer serviceable (Croatia got 6 second hand PC-9 and 14 New PC9's)...




BTW Gripen was built on original Viggen JAS37, which is also quite cool aircraft, although Gripen takes many new innovative and aerodynamic innovations such and canards and digital interlink between fighters and other army units, i.e. artillery battery or air defence missile battery... Quite innovative so much so Americans have borrowed some the Swedish ideas for there JSF and F22 programs, they call it digital battlefield...




Sweden - 164 Aicrafts
South Africa Ordered 36 Gripen JAS39
Austria Still thinks ordering about 24-36 Aircraft (they might get Eurofighter Taifun)
Hungary just got 14 with 22+12 Option remains
same for Czech republic, and future potential clients for Gripen are Slovenia 12 fighters and Croatia hopefully 24+6...



[/QUOTE]

and F16 CD Block 52


F16 Block C/D 52 (cost about 25 million U$)


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Old November 3rd, 2005, 09:26 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic of Orion
Did you also know Zagreb is only Airport in the what was former Yugoslavia to have CAT IIIB category for its runway... I think Ljubljana will get it soon as well, when they build new terminal.
Actually, Ljubljana got CAT IIIB in 1999, and was then one of only around 100 airports in the world to have it.

In other news, 956,115 passengers were served by Ljubljana Airport in the first 9 months of 2005, which is a 17.9% increase in passengers over the same period last year. By now (November 3rd), the airport has already surpassed its previous year's 1,024,000 passengers.

Considering that the airport's strategy is to have 1,600,000 passengers by 2010, I think they might get that two years earlier..

Also, I had no idea there's a secret underground base in Slovenia, probably in some secret place like Kočevska Reka (a secretly closed military area until 1991)..
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 11:25 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edolen1
Actually, Ljubljana got CAT IIIB in 1999, and was then one of only around 100 airports in the world to have it.

In other news, 956,115 passengers were served by Ljubljana Airport in the first 9 months of 2005, which is a 17.9% increase in passengers over the same period last year. By now (November 3rd), the airport has already surpassed its previous year's 1,024,000 passengers.

Considering that the airport's strategy is to have 1,600,000 passengers by 2010, I think they might get that two years earlier..

Also, I had no idea there's a secret underground base in Slovenia, probably in some secret place like Kočevska Reka (a secretly closed military area until 1991)..
cool, on both as to 1.6 million I already predicted Ljubljana will do about 1.8-2 million way back but some of Slovene Forumers said I am dreaming, lol...

I predict 1.225 million passengers this year, and 1.4 million next,...
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Old November 5th, 2005, 10:36 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edolen1
Also, I had no idea there's a secret underground base in Slovenia, probably in some secret place like Kočevska Reka (a secretly closed military area until 1991)..
Yes, It's true...
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Old November 5th, 2005, 02:43 PM   #96
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U got any photos of it ? ^
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Old November 5th, 2005, 03:43 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic of Orion
U got any photos of it ? ^
Well, it's nothing special, basically just forest and a town here and there.. There are some warehouses where info on all UDBA members was stored and other secret stuff as well..

Here's a pic of the area. More than 95% of it is forest..


There might be some secret underground stuff noone knows about though.. Those forests are one of the least known parts of Slovenia..

Here's a site about the area: http://www.kocevje.si/zaprto.htm

Last edited by edolen1; November 5th, 2005 at 03:53 PM.
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Old November 5th, 2005, 04:10 PM   #98
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thanx edolen1, you got any info on other Slovene Airports? can you post them here...
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Old November 9th, 2005, 04:43 AM   #99
SinCity
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Great updates guys!
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Old November 9th, 2005, 05:00 AM   #100
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Split Airport expansion

Here is some information regarding Split Airports growth potential. The 3rd busiest international airport in Croatia with passenger numbers fast approaching 1 million per annum, Split Airport is set to expand further .....

Split Airport terminal was expanded to 12500sqm, from 9000 sqm in 2002 to 12500 in 2005 with works now grinding to an end. Fresh works on new apron have just started - the apron is being extended to allow double parking access from current single parking access for aircrafts, apron is also being extended to the west and north west allowing more aircrafts to to be parked from current 10 to max of 20...

New extended Apron should be finished by 2008 tourist season (or few weeks before May).

There are a number of concerns from management of Split Airport. The primary concern are the nearby settlements which limit potential growth for Split Airport and any future expansion of the airport as envisaged in master plan. For example flights issues and issues of land and aprons which need to be built west of the present terminal, the apron we are talking is about 250mx320m and would allow for up to 20 medium aircraft to park, another 80m of apron will be used for 7-8 sky bridges which Split Airport plans to introduce sometimes next decade..

Second issue of concern is capacity and airlines which land at Split Airport.
Split Airport has rather erratic use of capacities, in winter times airport is barley used and on weekends (in summer months) airport does more business than in entire winter month or even summer weeks (excluding Friday, Saturday -busiest days and Sunday)...

To eradicate this problem airport plans to postpone construction of taxiway until some sort of equilibrium is set and that airlines land at Split airport throughout out the week and throughout out the year..

So in summary ....

2005
Airport terminal expanded to 12,500sqm, (new 3500sqm of terminal added)

2006
Construction of northwest apron - about 325x72m - increase capacity from 10 to 20 aircrafts being parked at Split airport..

2008
Final works finished on north west apron. Construction of western section of new L shaped Terminal, about 20,000sqm terminal will have 7-8 sky bridges and is expected completion by the end of 2011.
There is also the construction of new 320x250m west apron along the new 20,000sqm terminal.

2010
Construction of 2500m taxiway along the current 3000m runway (as a result northern apron will despair and will be incorporated in to new taxiway).

2012
Airport Split has final look, L shaped terminal all works on new taxiway are complete and airports capacity increased to 5 million passengers annually. Airport plans to build most of this with its own money.

Timeframe may be extended if issues of properties which infringe on airport land - section of L shaped terminal will go south towards the sea, and many properties will need to be demolished as a result of this. The same goes for the massive apron as result many buildings will need to be demolished to make free for new terminal.

Some idea on the scope of the work .....

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