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Old November 22nd, 2005, 12:43 PM   #161
Ballota
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Here are some of my Flight simulator 2004. adventures! CA A320-214 around LDZA Zagreb,Pleso. Hope you enjoy these pics!















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Old November 22nd, 2005, 03:32 PM   #162
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great stuff MB, great stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ildaniele
Why is everyone so focused on tourism? You seem to forget about Zagreb as a possible transfer hub. So why shouldn't people from Athens, Bukarest, Sofia, Belgrade, Skopie and even Budapest use Zagreb as a stopover to oversees. As far as I think this is the way to make money! This is not a new idea. All these Croatian d**ba***s have to do is copy e.g. from Czech Airlines...however even for this they seem to be incapable...Fortunately they are not alone in the region.
I'm not focused on tourism, I already pointed this out, most of the traffic on most major international airports is not tourist but business related activity such as business travellers and transfers...

For Airline to make money they need tourist, this is completely different matter, most airlines do ok as they are, but considering how badly CA was thought out and how poorly they utilise there aircraft and fleet it is perhaps no wonder they prefer to use tourism as vehicle of there own progress or stability (staying afloat)... Who ever runs CA has poor knowledge of managements and airline business, for example If I where to run CA I would have fleet of 30-32 Aircrafts, 10A320, 15A319, 5ATR72 and on order 2B787 100.

During summer I would put all A320's on charter service to bring as many tourist, whilst A319 would continue there scheduled traffic, CA would fly to about 50-55 Destinations in Europe and near East, Dubai, Cairo, Tel Aviv, Casablanca and almost every major EU city, in Russia I would fly to Skt. Petersburg and allow Aeroflot to cover Zagreb-Moscow route. All of ATR-72 would exclusively cover domestic traffic and regional Airports, Innsbruck, Graz, Venice, Bologna, Florence, Sarajevo, Skopje and Mostar. B787 100, when they enter service sometimes in 2010, I would use them to cover cities of New York, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Los Angeles and Toronto in NA and Buenos Aires in South America.. All this cities have more than 250 000 Croats in first, second or 3rd generation, untapped market awaiting to be utilised... Tokyo, Singapore, Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland and Perth in Oceania and Asia would be destination I would cover with these 2 aircraft.

AS strategic objective I would start up travel agencies which would be tightly connected with main CA operations, PR and advertising campaign would primarily be directed at targeting long hull destinations with support from HTZ in funds and technical and administrative support. Say in New York area I would advertise in New York Post, NewsDay and NY Times, make some sort of funny gimmicks connected with main cultural events I New York Area and invite local tourist organisations and business ppl working in travel industry to an annual event held with in confined of Croatian cultural centre in New York. I would also organise charity and sponsorship events, allow some of the underprivileged American students to study at Zagreb University or American University in Zagreb. Get TV and Radio Interviews, organise events which would educate Americans sorry New Yorkers about Croatia and so on, list goes on...

This is just example of many ideas I would implement and make sure they work in long term for airline...

What CA is doing lol, I better not bother saying, they are only on 12 Aircrafts of which one is leased from Lufthansa, arrrgh, what's the use...

Pleso Airport, can never play major role in transit market, it is to small and to insignificant to make this market work, anyways I can go much more deeper but ask me some other time when I feel like talking, right now gtg..
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Last edited by mic of Orion; November 27th, 2005 at 04:19 PM.
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 04:34 PM   #163
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You´ve said it all,man!

Here is one interesting link. A bit outdated,but good anyway.

http://www.azworldairports.com/cfm/f....com/airports/

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Old November 23rd, 2005, 05:34 AM   #164
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I'm really surprised at how CA have limited their markets and capabilities.

There are almost no flights to Asia, US, etc.

For example there are no flights to Israel and yet Croatia is the second biggest tourism destination for Israelis. Second only to Turkey and this number is fast rising.

This year Croatia had 200,000 visitors from Israel. All of which pretty much arrived via air. There needs to be a flight to a major hub in Asia so that at least Croats and others from Australia can get connecting flights ....
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 08:06 PM   #165
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They had flights to Tel Aviv! I don t know what happend with that!

Check out the new site!

http://www.croatiaairlines.hr/Default.aspx?tabid=295
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Old November 24th, 2005, 03:00 AM   #166
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some great ideas by mic, it would be very interesting if you could post again with more depth. CA has so far finished almost every year with profits, and shows potential, but potential is not enough, much larger investment in greater long-haul,promotion,business travel etc is needed. i am posting some of my own CA future posibilities.....

1.Large Investment in size and modernisation of fleet.
-Replacing aging ATR planes with newer modern Regional Jets, for example the Bombardier CRJ.
-Adding at least 10-15 more each Airbus A319 and Airbus A320
-For long haul, B787 probably is the best option,however the 777-200LR and 747-8(advanced) should not be overlooked, especialy for possible east asian market.the other very strong market option is the north/south america routes, which have many 1-3rd generation croats who want an alternative to that dam frankfurt/munich(nothing against the germans )-zagreb switch over. ie (over 100,000 croats in toronto, being one, and knowing many, a zagreb-toronto route would never be empty, especialy in summer, where we have to book many months in advance to get a ticket)...this brings me to the next point.

2.A large increase in Destinations and Promotion
So far CA has 20-30 destinations(i mite be wrong), many more need to be added, croatian potential in luring not only more tourists, but many more business/investments thru air travel is huge. (nothing but big increase in foreign investments and new tourists this year).here is a rough list of destinations i would have for CA...
DOMESTIC
Zagreb,Split,Dubrovnik,Rijeka,Osijek,Zadar,Pula,Brac

EUROPE
AUSTRIA: Graz,Vienna,Innsbruck
BELARUS: Minsk
BELGIUM: Brussels
BOSNIA HERZEGOVINA: Sarajevo,Mostar,Tuzla
BULGARIA: Sofia
CZECH REPUBLIC: Prague
DENMARK: Copenhagen
ESTONIA: Tallinn
FINDLAND: Helsinki
FRANCE: Paris(Orleans/Charles de Gaulle),Lyon,Bordeaux,Strasbourg,Toulouse,Marseille
GERMANY: Frankfurt,Munich,Berlin,Dusseldorf,Hamburg,Dortmund,Cologne/Bonn,Hanover
GREECE: Athens,Thessaloniki
HUNGARY: Budapest
IRELAND: Dublin,Cork
ITALY: Roma,Milan,Venice
LATVIA: Riga
LITHUANIA: Vilinus
MACEDONIA: Skopje,Ohrid
MALTA: Malta
NETHERLANDS: Amsterdam
NORWAY: Oslo
POLAND: Katowice,Krakow,Warsaw
PORTUGAL: Lisbon,Porto
ROMANIA: Bucharest
RUSSIA: St.Petersburg,Moscow
SCOTLAND: Edinburgh
SERBIA: Belgrade,Nis
SLOVAKIA: Bratislava
SPAIN: Barcelona,Madrid
SWEDEN: Gothenburg,Stokholm
SWITZERLAND: Basel,Zurich,Geneva
UKRAINE: Kyiv,Dnipropetrovsk
ENGLAND: London(Heathrow/Gatwick),Manchester,Midland,Birmingham,Newcastle

NORTH AMERICA (many croatian descendants/immigrants in N.A and S.A)
CANADA: Toronto,Montreal
AMERICA: New York,Chicago,Cleveland,Pittsburgh,Seattle,Los Angeles

SOUTH AMERICA
ARGENTINA: Buenos Aires
CHILE: Santiago

AFRICA

EGYPT: Cairo
LIBYA: Tripoli
TUNISIA: Tunis
SOUTH AFRICA: Johanesburg,Cape Town (around 100.000+ croats in south africa)

ASIA (Big business/investment possibilities, oh and tourism, lots of potential tourism here as well)
CHINA: Beijing, Hong Kong,possibly Shanghai
JAPAN: Tokyo,Osaka
INDIA: Delhi
SINGAPORE: Singapore
MALAYSIA: Kuala Lumpur
INDONESIA: Jakarta
THAILAND: Bangkok
TURKEY: Istanbul
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES: Dubai, Abu Dhabi
SAUDI ARABIA: Riyadh
QATAR: Doha
LEBANON: Beirut
SYRIA: Damascus
KUWAIT: Kuwait
ISREAL: Tel Aviv (200,000 visitors from isreal this year!!)

OCEANIA
AUSTRALIA: Sydney,Melbourne (Many croats live in australia as well)

3.Upgrading CA to at least a 4 Star Airline, an elite airline in the world does much better than a medium size 3 star airline.

4.Do not rule out a possible CA Shipping division, shipping is another strong possibility for croatian Investmens, especialy with many new infastructure projects(Rijeka Port,Zagreb Airport,New Highways etc) look at Atlasnka Plovidba..successfull croatian shipping company.....

possibilities for CA to become a world wide competitive leader in civil aviation and possibly cargo are realistic and achievable
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Old November 24th, 2005, 04:00 AM   #167
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LOL at the Frankfurt switch over.

I know what you mean. I have to fly direct from Sydney to Frankfurt for my connecting flight to Zagreb. How much better if they did a direct Sydney - Zagreb flight.

It would pay off as we too in Australia have to book months in advance for flights to Croatia during summer.

BTW I sent you a message.

Cheers
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Old November 24th, 2005, 09:29 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Stain
some great ideas by mic, it would be very interesting if you could post again with more depth.
I'll try my best,

First of all I would reorganise CA network, I would keep turboprops as they are more efficient and new ATR72 500 are quite fast and reliable, make sure they only fly up to ranges of 500-550km at most or about hour of flight. 5ATR72 would fly to all regional destinations freeing A320's and 319's for other routes. I would try to improve connection between some Croatian Cities, Example Osijek - Dubrovnik, Osijek -Zadar, Split and so on would be well connected by at lest 2 flights per day, made sure all aircrafts are fully utilised this means 5 takes offs and 5 landings each day 364 days a year... Service intervals would be done so at no point I loose half of the fleet to service checks as this the case now with CA, all Aircraft would be assigned specific route and countries, I would increase flights to some of the most demanding routes and offer discount rates to passengers if they fly more than 3 times a month...

Marketing campaigned which would emphasise speed and connivance of air travel in Croatia, ppl still use buses to go places like Split or Osijek, yuck, being transported like cattle, I would reduce passenger tickets on all domestic routes so they are only 10-15% above train/bus ticket price but speed and convenience is what counts...

These are destinations I would fly worldwide, all other destinations wouldn't be feasible, due to the size of Croatian market and competition for destinations among major European Airlines, Financially wouldn't be prudent to fly example to India if there are no interest for this destination, let Air India fly to us, or Latvia, or any other destination...

For Sofia, Bucharest, Riga, I would invite there national airlines to cover this routes in exchange for 20-25% seats on there planes for CA... let them spend fuel and if it is profitable in longer term, yeah why not...

AUSTRIA: Vienna (Graz, Innsbruck - Regional Service)
BELGIUM: Brussels
BOSNIA HERZEGOVINA: Sarajevo, (Mostar regional Service)
CZECH REPUBLIC: Prague
DENMARK: Copenhagen
FINLAND: Helsinki
FRANCE: Paris (Charles de Gaulle), Lyon, Nice
GERMANY: Frankfurt, Munich, Berlin, (charter - Düsseldorf, Hamburg, Stuttgart)
GREECE: Athens,
HUNGARY: Budapest
IRELAND: Dublin,
ITALY: Roma, Milan (Venice, Bologna, Florence, Trieste - regional Service)
MACEDONIA: Skopje, (regional service only - transfer in Zagreb for Europe and Intercn.)
NETHERLANDS: Amsterdam
NORWAY: Oslo
POLAND: ,Krakow, Warsaw
PORTUGAL: Lisbon
RUSSIA: St. Petersburg, Moscow (only with Aeroflot)
SERBIA: let JAT cover this route, but only after 2009...
SLOVAKIA: Bratislava
SPAIN: Barcelona, Madrid
SWEDEN: Gothenburg, Stockholm
SWITZERLAND: Zurich
UK: London (Heathrow/Gatwick), Manchester, (charter: Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow)
CANADA: Toronto,
USA: New York, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Los Angeles
ARGENTINA: Buenos Aires
CHILE: Santiago
SOUTH AFRICA: Cape Town (around 100.000+ Croats in South Africa)
CHINA: Shanghai
JAPAN: Tokyo, Osaka
SINGAPORE: Singapore (for Australian and far east flgihts -stop off)
TURKEY: Istanbul
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES: Dubai
ISRAEL: Tel Aviv (charter only if security situation improves) Invite El AL to Zagreb instead
AUSTRALIA & NZ: Sydney, Melbourne, Perth. Auckland

Domestic: Osijek, Zagreb, Pula, Rijeka, Zadar, Split, Dubrovnik, (in season: Brac, Losinj,)

total: 58 destinations, Charter: 7, Co-Op: 3. Domestic: 9

Fleet:
10 A320 230
15 A319 100
5 ATR72 500
2 B787 100
total: 32

total 3250 staff...
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Last edited by mic of Orion; January 10th, 2006 at 09:32 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2005, 12:39 AM   #169
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Defenitley very well organised plan here, you have included a lot more aviation economics, which i have to brush up on a little ,my ideas were more rough, altho there are a few points that i have thought about... i have read about this in other forums and on other news...about cro aviation in general

1.What about completing a modernisation of pleso, but keeping it a more local/regional airport, and investing in a brand new much larger Zagreb Airport in a new location(this would help with the situation of the 600+ houses that need to be relocated) (i kind of based this idea from your idea of building a new stadium for Dinamo Zagreb in the Zagreb forums) i kno this would cost a lot of money, but with enough investments and promotion it could be a possibility.

2.Do you have any information about plans for other airline cariers such as qantas/air canada/any american airline that might have plans in the near future to do direct zagreb flights, i kno this has been mentioned recently.(i have tried to check air canada the most, as i live there, but i think they have had their own troubles recently, and have not recieved much of a reply/info from them to date)

3.as for airport modernisation, is there any concrete information on dubrovnik airport's plans to increase Cilipi, as this year so far has been very successful, even having British Airlines name that airport as one of its best partners.
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Old November 25th, 2005, 12:52 AM   #170
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ATR72-500 is too small for domestic rutes (at least Zagreb,Split and Dubrovik). It holds only 70 passengers.
A319 holds about 140 passengers and if some 70% of it s filled,it s at least 100 people!

But everything else is great! I like the B787!

I just don t understand why this is not at least in their mid-term plans?

Are they all really stupid or we overlooked something?

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Old November 25th, 2005, 01:38 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Stain
Defenitley very well organised plan here, you have included a lot more aviation economics, which i have to brush up on a little ,my ideas were more rough, altho there are a few points that i have thought about... i have read about this in other forums and on other news...about cro aviation in general.
Cool, what other forums? Nice to know there're more forums where Croatian Airports are discussed, lol...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Stain
1.What about completing a modernisation of pleso, but keeping it a more local/regional airport, and investing in a brand new much larger Zagreb Airport in a new location (this would help with the situation of the 600+ houses that need to be relocated) (i kind of based this idea from your idea of building a new stadium for Dinamo Zagreb in the Zagreb forums) I know this would cost a lot of money, but with enough investments and promotion it could be a possibility..
Well, building new stadium on new location is not as difficult as moving/building entire airport to new location, 600 houses built on airport land where illegally built, they all knew this is airport land when they moved on it, imagine this happening in Toronto (say Pearson International Airport) I'm, sure Canadian authorities would act swiftly if someone build a house on airport land. 600 Homes build there will need to be knocked anyway, this land belongs to Airport, there are no options, most ppl know they going to be evicted, I am sorry for all who going to loose there livelihoods, hope is State will provide them with alternative accommodation, why state you might ask, bc land belongs to state and not the city...

Building new airport in vicinity of Zagreb on new location is impossible, there simply is no way to build an airport on new location with in 25km of city centre, anywhere you look, (use Google earth) land is already heavily used, to the west is loads of small villages and to the east very hilly area which again is full of houses, to the south there are more villages, nowhere else to go.. Use economic sense, to knock down 600 houses you only need t pay for demolishing and clearance (not even that if you use ingenuity). Option can be given to all ppl who lived there to knock (and clear the land) there own houses in return state and city authorities will buy out construction material, (bricks and stuff) and secure planed and landscaped plot of about 600-1000 hectares about 4km away from the airport, state will build little village for all 600 families (ok this is just an idea) and everyone is happy..

Building all together new Airport can cost about 1.2-1.5 billion U$ (a minimum), something State or City can't afford, not at this moment...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Stain
2.Do you have any information about plans for other airline carriers such as Qantas/Air Canada/any American Airline that might have plans in the near future to do direct Zagreb flights, I know this has been mentioned recently. I have tried to check Air Canada the most, as I live there, but I think they have had their own troubles recently, and have not received much of a reply/info from them to date).
Sorry, nothing, I never bothered to check this up, I know Qantas has very few flights to Europe, London, Rome, Paris and Amsterdam are only destinations they fly to. Air Canada might re-start there Zagreb Route but I'm not cretin of this would be cool if you check this out, call them and bug them until they get back to you, and if you are not happy, come to me and I'll try my Mr, James Bond, lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Stain
3.as for airport modernisation, is there any concrete information on Dubrovnik airport's plans to increase Cilipi, as this year so far has been very successful, even having British Airlines name that airport as one of its best partners.
Yes, I'll need to follow up a bit, I was to bussy, there are many plans and Mate Balota will be one who is going to post all the info on Dubrovnik Airport... Give me few days for that, and Mate...
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Last edited by mic of Orion; November 25th, 2005 at 02:57 AM.
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Old November 25th, 2005, 01:43 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mate_Balota
ATR72-500 is too small for domestic rutes (at least Zagreb,Split and Dubrovik). It holds only 70 passengers.
A319 holds about 140 passengers and if some 70% of it s filled,it s at least 100 people!

But everything else is great! I like the B787!

I just don t understand why this is not at least in their mid-term plans?

Are they all really stupid or we overlooked something?

trust me one ATR72 500 twice a day to Dubrovnik or Split from any other Croatian city would more than suffice, and ATR72 500 uses about 25-30% of A319 fuel consumption..

for other, lol, not my fight, lol
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Old November 25th, 2005, 03:00 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic of Orion
trust me one ATR72 500 twice a day to Dubrovnik or Split from any other Croatian city would more than suffice, and ATR72 500 uses about 25-30% of A319 fuel consumption..

for other, lol, not my fight, lol
They keep on saying that they are Star Alliance member now and that all of the long-haul flights will be done by Lufthansa! It s compitely stupid to say something like this! Who wants to fly Zg-Fra-NY when he can do Zg-NY?!?

.....ah.......Croatians....... ........ .......... ........


P.S. You really scared me with that BANNANED comment! For a second I tought you wore banned from the forum beacuse of that sebian mess!

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Old November 25th, 2005, 04:32 AM   #174
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I agree with you. I think it’s not the best move. Becoming a regional star alliance member means becoming a puppet to Lufthansa, Austrian or Swiss.
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Old November 25th, 2005, 04:26 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mate_Balota

P.S. You really scared me with that BANNANED comment! For a second I tought you wore banned from the forum beacuse of that sebian mess!

lol, don't worry, u always can keep in touch with me by e-mail, lol..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mate_Balota
They keep on saying that they are Star Alliance member now and that all of the long-haul flights will be done by Lufthansa! It s compitely stupid to say something like this! Who wants to fly Zg-Fra-NY when he can do Zg-NY?!?
cost's...

Quote:
Calculate (basics of aircraft operations) A330 takes about 300 passengers, each paying say 500 U$, say it flies to New York and Chicago 2-wice a week...

320x4x2x52x500 = 66.5 million U$ per Aircraft = 100% Load factor or full revenue...
Expenses, each time it lands it faces a charge (landing fee) of about 5000U$, For Over-flights rights and use of airspace it needs to pay about 500 U$ per country flies over, say this is another 5000U$. (2080 000x2)

Crew will cost about Captain 120 000U$, Co-Pilot - 100 000U$, 8 members of crew about 160 000U$ PA... Insurance for Aircraft and Crew is about 5% of the value of the Aircraft about 6 million U$. Fuel will cost about 500U$ per tone or about 6.24 million U$ per year...

OK lets add all this,
Landing Charges : 2 080 000
Over-flights : 2 080 000
Crew: 380 000 + Upkeep
Insurance - 6 250 000
Fuel Costs: 6 240 000
Annual Refit: 5 000 000
Engines: 24 000 000
Body Paint and Testing of Fuselage: 3 200 000
Electronic Bay support and testing: 2 500 000
Avionics Check Up: 1 500 000
Cleaning: 3 600 000
total: 56 830 000...

For A330 to make profit it'll need to make 57 million U$, or 85% or better load factor with 320 passengers pax... Now you see why Long Hull aircrafts are so expensive...



I hope I made a point, lol, sorry to be so blunt and harsh but you need to understand economics of Airline business...
Let me elaborate a bit, CA when formed way back in 1989 (1991) was conceived with good reasons but poor planning. Man' who where in charge of CA at very begging started airline as a defiant move towards Belgrade authorities and had no idea how to run an airline. Example Airline at first only flew to minor airports in Germany and Switzerland, with little planning and even less business acumen.

Anyway these very same man remained with in CA all they way up to1999, they influenced CA's development and growth, none of the them have serious knowledge of Airline business, many are involved in tourism (running hotels, restaurants) and therefore have little knowledge how to run or manage an airline.

In 1994 CA got 5 B737 200A from Lufthansa at incredible price of 35 million U$, which was a rip off price they where worth at most 15 million U$ and even than networks was always temporary, it had no permanence, time scheduling or destinations CA flew to, example in Autumn scheduling airline would fly to Gothenburg, but in Winter they would switch to Copenhagen or Stockholm, it was a real mess as passengers who where interested to fly with CA had to switch constantly or fly with alternative Airlines like SAS, Lufthansa, or BA...

To make things worse, CA lost customer base which would have grew and grew if they kept flying to these destination. Anyways loses in 90's where such bc of poor management airline at one point had to sack its MD for incompetence, anyway government did sack the MD (retired - political spin) of CA in 1998, and new man took over, but he continued along the business polices of of his predecessor and CA was continually loosing money although less than before, in 1998 airline had about 6 million U$ of losses and this was considered a good result, anyway CA became profitable only in 2000, with introduction of A319'sa and A320 in to the fleet... All of the B737's where retired same year but poor management never completed purchase of 7A319 and 5A320's as originally planed but got stuck on 3 A320- and 4 A319, what, now almost 3 years, with constantly leasing 2-3 aircraft each tourist season due to lack of capacities...

If they stuck to original plan they'd have no need to lease aircrafts on short term contracts which are very expensive... CA if it had purchased original 12 A320/319 by 2004, would now have more or less very profitable airline with ideas of Intercontinental flights say NA or Australia towards the end of this decade... Still they would need to wait for B787 , they are really cheapest and most economical option...
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Last edited by mic of Orion; November 26th, 2005 at 11:51 PM.
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Old November 26th, 2005, 04:09 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Stain

1.What about completing a modernisation of pleso, but keeping it a more local/regional airport, and investing in a brand new much larger Zagreb Airport in a new location (this would help with the situation of the 600+ houses that need to be relocated) (i kind of based this idea from your idea of building a new stadium for Dinamo Zagreb in the Zagreb forums) I know this would cost a lot of money, but with enough investments and promotion it could be a possibility.
PS, I forgot to say Pleso as we discussed here a lot about this particular airport, will remain main international airport in Croatia and Zagreb, construction of new terminal should start next year April most likely, possibly late March (depends on whether conditions), new terminal should be about 57-72000sqm about 4 times the size of present one, and have at least 15 passenger boarding bridges, this would enable the airport to handle about 8-10 million passengers annually, with plenty of space for expansion and 2nd runway..

Investment of about 150€ million in to new terminal is planed and 3 firms are as we speak working on the designs for the new airport...
Another 30€ million might be spent on 2nd runway...
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Old November 26th, 2005, 05:36 PM   #177
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Something like this:


Ignore the second terminal. It s just my imagination!
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Old November 26th, 2005, 09:47 PM   #178
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B747-8!

http://747.newairplane.com/
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/...r_051114h.html

Komentari?

Mene su se najviše dojmila krila,heh!

Ostatak je tipično filozofiranje za mazanje naivnih očiju.

Dejavu na reklame za A380.

Vreme će pokazati koji je najbolji,a u međuvremenu će A380 i dalje biti najveći,ha,ha.
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Old November 26th, 2005, 10:36 PM   #179
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Hey,guys,how do you like the idea of the airforace base being moved to ZTZ (Zrakoplovno Tehnički Zavod)? Johnny Cotex from the CroatianAviation forum gave me this idea! It seems to be quite good! Just a runway extention and the building of the necesery infrastructure is needed. The great thing about ZTZ is that it s allready conected to all those bunkers and baracs at Pleso!





The day we see this is the day when we can peacefuly die!
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Last edited by Ballota; November 26th, 2005 at 11:38 PM.
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Old November 26th, 2005, 11:32 PM   #180
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I apologize if I m boring,but I think that this is worth to be seen from more then one angel!




















Živila budućnost!
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