Denver - Good? Bad?

[JB_Gold Coast]

Originally Posted by milehi

Better sports teams? In terms of what?

For one, The Broncos have a FAR HIGHER winning percentage than the Bears will ever dream of having. More sold out games at The Pepsi Center (AVS) and Mile High (old and new). EVERY attendance record bar 1 in Baseball. Chicago has the history, that is it. Yes, I remember the Bulls, and yes the Cubs are always fun to watch.


As far as slc and phoenix, what is there to compare?

Again, Denver is in COLORADO which is why this threrad is in this section. Get over it already!!!!!


And as far as St. Louis, I was not comparing Denver to the lou. Although it is really not a comparison. Old versus new. Cheaper versus more expensive. run down versus booming, slowly coming back versus still in a healthy boom. You get my point. Yes, I have read the St. Louis threads and projects. The lou has a lot going on. It is just that it has a long ways to go to get back to the break even point. When a city declines for so long, it is a long climb back. I see the lou as just now reaching the break even point. So it has nowhere to go but positive territory now. (not a put down). I never said either had more or less of an urban offering.

As far as the cleaner city? I think I have witnessed enough run down projects in St. Louis and Chicago to know that I speak the truth when I say Denve s far more clean than the aformenetioned cities.

Laughable post. For the sports: More goes into the sports scene of a city that their NFL team's winning percentage. Sporting venues, tradition, and history factor into the equation. You wouldn't know much about history and tradition because you've only had the Avalanche for 10 years, and the Rockies for 12. The Denver Broncos are a quality franchise. On the other hand, I could point to the fact that the Chicago Bears have more hall of fame inductees than any other team in the NFL, and are one of the most storied, classic franchises in the NFL. The Rockies and Coors field are basically a novelty in baseball with the ridiculous, thin air field and inflated statistics. The Rockies will never win anything because of that and that is a fact.

"EVERY attendance record bar 1 in Baseball"

I don't know what you are talking about there. In 2004, the Rockies averaged 29,595 fans and filled Coors at 58.7% of capacity. The Cubs drew 39,138 per game, and filled Wrigley (which by the way, is far better of a sports venue than anything you have in Denver) at a whopping 98.9% capacity.

To top it off, the Denver Nuggets are historically one of the worst and least notable franchises in the NBA. The Bulls won 6 championships and produced the greatest athelete all-time.

None of this matters much when discussing how good or bad a city is, but it does say something about your credibility.

"As far as slc and phoenix, what is there to compare?"

Well for starters, they're actually in the same region as Denver. I realize that Colorado is listed in the Midwest forum for some reason, but that doesn't mean you should call it a Midwestern city and start comparing it to St. Louis, Chicago, and Minneapolis. I would exect you Denver forumers to know enough about your city to know the difference. Get a fuckin clue.

Not to mention, all of your posts talking about how great Denver is compared to Minneapolis are absurd. Minneapolis is a fantastic city, and I won't say much about it because their forumers already have, but IMO, it beats the shit out of Denver.

"As far as the cleaner city? I think I have witnessed enough run down projects in St. Louis and Chicago to know that I speak the truth when I say Denve s far more clean than the aformenetioned cities."

Have you really? Chicago is a very clean city. I doubt you really know all that much about Chicago or St. Louis for that matter. In fact, you've pretty much proven you don't. I can't fathom why you think Denver is so much cleaner.

The picture Anit-Cheesehead posted makes Denver look like a cat's liter box.

[milehi]

Well for starters, they're actually in the same region as Denver. I realize that Colorado is listed in the Midwest forum for some reason, but that doesn't mean you should call it a Midwestern city and start comparing it to St. Louis, Chicago, and Minneapolis. I would exect you Denver forumers to know enough about your city to know the difference. Get a fuckin clue.


You get a clue! Until there is a proper forum THIS IS WHERE WE POST!

As far as attendance in baseball:
Most people at 1 single game.
Most people in a 2-game series.
Most people in a 3-game series.
Largest single season attendance record.
Fastest team to 10, 20 and 30 million.
Need I add more?
Not my fault wrigley is tiny and falling apart! Yes I know it is a baseball legend. Yes I love it.

As far as the Nuggets in NBA history:
Led the league in scoring numerous times.
Birthplace of the Dunk Competition.
Only team in NBA histroy to come back and win series after being down 0-2 (Seattle)
There are several others, but we are not really known as an NBA city per se.

Hockey
Winningest team of the last decade.
More sellouts in a row than any otehr hockey team.
Longest streak of division titles in Hockey

Shall I continue with the Broncos?
In the Guiness Book for Loudest Stadium.
One of the longest sellout streaks.
Either 2nd or third winningest team since 1970.
More superbowl appearances (yes many losses) and wins than MOST NFL teams.


I have been to Chicago and St. Louis numerous times. Yes they both have large and numerous areas of run down projects. YOU are the one who does not know your own city if you fail to realize this, or are just to embarrased to admit such.

As far as Denver being the cleaner city, that is just a fact. Denver is a cleaner city than Chicago or St. Louis. Do I think Denver is a better city than Chicago or St. Louis? St. Louis yes, Chicago yes in many ways. I have no hate whatsoever for Chicago. It is one of my favorite 3 cities in the US. I have relatives there. My cousin flew the Channel 7 news helicopter before he changed to flying for Loyola Hospital. I have great pictures of downtown from the helicopter hovering at the 105 floor of sears.

This is ridiculous. I will not change your opinion, and vice versa. At least we will both go on living in the city we want to be in.

[The anti-cheesehead]

I remember someone talking about how Denver was so much greener than Minneapolis. That person must've been on crack.


I know this pic is from the winter, but look at all of the wasteland with no trees so close to the city. What is up with that? Why is there so much empty land so close to Denver? I was seriously shocked when I saw this pic, I had no idea Denver looked like that. It really looks like shit.

[JB_Gold Coast]

Originally Posted by milehi

Well for starters, they're actually in the same region as Denver. I realize that Colorado is listed in the Midwest forum for some reason, but that doesn't mean you should call it a Midwestern city and start comparing it to St. Louis, Chicago, and Minneapolis. I would exect you Denver forumers to know enough about your city to know the difference. Get a fuckin clue.


You get a clue! Until there is a proper forum THIS IS WHERE WE POST!

As far as attendance in baseball:
Most people at 1 single game.
Most people in a 2-game series.
Most people in a 3-game series.
Largest single season attendance record.
Fastest team to 10, 20 and 30 million.
Need I add more?
Not my fault wrigley is tiny and falling apart! Yes I know it is a baseball legend. Yes I love it.

As far as the Nuggets in NBA history:
Led the league in scoring numerous times.
Birthplace of the Dunk Competition.
Only team in NBA histroy to come back and win series after being down 0-2 (Seattle)
There are several others, but we are not really known as an NBA city per se.

Hockey
Winningest team of the last decade.
More sellouts in a row than any otehr hockey team.
Longest streak of division titles in Hockey

Shall I continue with the Broncos?
In the Guiness Book for Loudest Stadium.
One of the longest sellout streaks.
Either 2nd or third winningest team since 1970.
More superbowl appearances (yes many losses) and wins than MOST NFL teams.


I have been to Chicago and St. Louis numerous times. Yes they both have large and numerous areas of run down projects. YOU are the one who does not know your own city if you fail to realize this, or are just to embarrased to admit such.

As far as Denver being the cleaner city, that is just a fact. Denver is a cleaner city than Chicago or St. Louis. Do I think Denver is a better city than Chicago or St. Louis? St. Louis yes, Chicago yes in many ways. I have no hate whatsoever for Chicago. It is one of my favorite 3 cities in the US. I have relatives there. My cousin flew the Channel 7 news helicopter before he changed to flying for Loyola Hospital. I have great pictures of downtown from the helicopter hovering at the 105 floor of sears.

This is ridiculous. I will not change your opinion, and vice versa. At least we will both go on living in the city we want to be in.

That's a good idea. I won't waste much of my time responding to that. Especially when someone is listing the Denver Nuggets credentials as "They led the league in scoring" and "it is the birthplace of the dunk contest." I guess those things are way more important that NBA Titles or conference championships to you, probably because the Nuggets have won zero of each.

You said you had every attendance record in baseball. Far from it. You can measure attendance in three ways: Total Attendance, Per Game, and Percentage of Capacity. The Rockies were poor in all three last year. Who cares if you had the largest crowd for one single game? If Wrigley Field had the capacity of Coors, it would have that record. Don't mistake a stadiums capacity for greatness. Most baseball pruists despise Coors field.

[Slammed0]

Really it shouldn't matter about anything? Who cares? Both cities have their ups and their downs. Denver? Chicago? Thats like me trying to compare Boise to Los Angeles or even Seattle or something. My city is unique for its own reasons, just like everybody elses. Who cares about sports. The BSU football team was #7 in the nation this year. We have lost 3 games in like the last 3 or 4 years. Does that mean it is better than say Sacramento? Negative. Its just a sport fact, period.

I just hate seeing so many people who have love for cities fight over something that really doesn't even matter. If you really want to talk about a shithole talk about somewhere like Toledo.

[milwaukeeunseen]

Denver's a nice city, too bad I can't really breathe when I'm there. I have asthma and the altitude really got to me when I was there. I felt light headed and out of it for half the time I was there. Bad scene.

[denvernative1982]

Hey, Minneapolis proper is 383,000 people and Colorado Springs is 380,000 people, Denver has 560,000 people. So Colorado Springs is a better comparison?

Colorado Springs is a suburban style college town, LOL. No, Colorado Springs is a city of military retirees and massive christian publishing and media city. I think that the 200 international religious media and publishing outfits have created an good economic environment.

I would pick living in a town like Colorado Springs anyday over a city like Minneapolis.
The religious organizations and the environment they promote is the reason why Colorado Springs crime rate is very low, Minneapolis culture of greed is what causes massive income disparities and a lack of oppurtunity for the non-elites which is why Minneapolis has a 95 murders in one year in the 1990's and 3 times as many auto thefts per capita.

I am not bashing Minneapolis, they do have alot of big fortune 500's, but the wealth is held by a few in Minneapolis and in Colorado Springs the income disparity is much smaller.

Anyway next time Colorado Springs has an economic crisis we can just rile the religious conservatives by writing books that sell millions. Colorado Springs is said to have more psycologists per capita than any city in America!!

[KM1410]

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

Hey, Minneapolis proper is 383,000 people and Colorado Springs is 380,000 people, Denver has 560,000 people. So Colorado Springs is a better comparison?

So using your reasoning, Indianapolis & San Francisco, Tuscon & Cleveland, Mesa & Minneapolis, Pittsburgh & Arlington TX, St Louis & Santa Ana CA, El Paso & Seattle are all great cities to compare to each other. Get a clue. City proper populations dont mean jack shit.

The religious organizations and the environment they promote is the reason why Colorado Springs crime rate is very low, Minneapolis culture of greed is what causes massive income disparities and a lack of oppurtunity for the non-elites which is why Minneapolis has a 95 murders in one year in the 1990's and 3 times as many auto thefts per capita.

The only proper reply to this is

[The anti-cheesehead]

Edit: KM beat me to it. Thanks.

[cwilson758]

Denver is a nice city. There are some parts that are beautiful near downtown (Capitol Hill). One thing that surprised me, and has been mentioned, is how desolate it is east of the City. I was surprised by the lack of trees and basically the "flatness" that is east.

Question: Isn't Denver is some sort of recession that is worse than the national average? I thought I read something recently that basically said Denver's economy is in shambles.

[twincities03]

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

Hey, Minneapolis proper is 383,000 people and Colorado Springs is 380,000 people, Denver has 560,000 people. So Colorado Springs is a better comparison?

This has to be one of the dumbest statements ever posted on this forum.

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

LOL. No, Colorado Springs is a city of military retirees and massive christian publishing and media city. I think that the 200 international religious media and publishing outfits have created an good economic environment.

Colorado Springs is a military, suburban-style, hick town. You can't deny it.

Speaking of publishing and media related cities, if you had any idea as to what you're talking about, you would know that Minneapolis ranks pretty high in both categories. Lerner Publications Co, Graywolf Press, Milkweed Editions, Coffee House Press, and New Rivers are all based in Minneapolis and have a significant presence nationally. Actually, Minnesota has the most concentrated printing and publishing industry in the United States, ranking third in the category of employment in the book publishing industry behind New York and California.

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

I would pick living in a town like Colorado Springs anyday over a city like Minneapolis.
The religious organizations and the environment they promote is the reason why Colorado Springs crime rate is very low, Minneapolis culture of greed is what causes massive income disparities and a lack of oppurtunity for the non-elites which is why Minneapolis has a 95 murders in one year in the 1990's and 3 times as many auto thefts per capita.

Minneapolis is a major city that faces major, big city problems such as lack of police and under-educated youth. There's a major problem with gangs, including a rise in ethnic gang related crimes. Colorado Springs will never face these problems because it's not a major urban city.

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

I am not bashing Minneapolis, they do have alot of big fortune 500's, but the wealth is held by a few in Minneapolis and in Colorado Springs the income disparity is much smaller.

This is common throughout most suburban-style, military cities.

Look it's up to you if you want to live in a city that is about 85% white and relies heavily on a military and religious presence. A lot of bigots would actually prefer this lack of culture. You should fit in just fine.

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

Anyway next time Colorado Springs has an economic crisis we can just rile the religious conservatives by writing books that sell millions. Colorado Springs is said to have more psycologists per capita than any city in America!!

Oh great!! A city that revolves around the military and religious conservatives.

BTW, it's psychologist and I think you should consider seeing one.

[milehi]

Denver's economy in shambles? I think not. We are still below the nationa laverage for unemployment. Things are heating up fast as well. We are comming out of this slow period later than most US cities, but we entered it later as well. Nope, things are just fine around here. Lots and lots of new things going up all over.

[denvernative1982]

Minneapolis has same murder rate as San Diego, four times its size and double that of San Jose twice its size.

Minneapolis is 67% non-hisapnic white according to the 2000 census and Colorado Springs is 72% non-hispanic white if you look at the supplemental survey. So, if you look at the numbers both have relatively little diversity. By the Colorado Springs doesnt try to price immigrants out of the community, like Minneapolis.

To the you the extent of Minneapolis and its crime rate compared to Colorado Springs..

In 2002...
Minneapolis had a violent crime rate of 1,056
Colorado Springs had a violent crime rate of 507
Denver had a violent crime rate of 534

So as you can see Denver's violent crime rate per 100,000 people is about half of what Minneapolis is...and Colorado Springs is even lower, despite having the same population as Minneapolis proper.

To tell you how high of homicide rate is in Minneapolis in 1995 and 1996 Minneapolis had 179 homicides...This is more than than Colorado Springs had from 1993 to 2002...So despite having a 3,000 person population difference, Minneapolis is way up there on homicide rate.

Minneapolis with 383,000 people had more homicides in 1995 and 1996 than San Jose with 927,000 people had in five years.

In Fact, Minneapolis with 383,000 people is tied with San Diego a city of 1.26 million people with the homicide in 2002...Minneapolis in fact even beat out San Diego in 1995

Your right Minneapolis has a big problem with crime that in the energizer bunny, just keeps going and going and going. I mean serious more murder than San Diego which is almost four times it's size, That is really something to proud of.

The problem with Minneapolis is it is run by billionaire business barons, who pay people so low that the residents have to resort to crime to pay the bills.

Minneapolis is about as conservative and uncompassionate as they come and it seems like the poor are tired of the Minnesota elite.

[JB_Gold Coast]

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

Minneapolis has same murder rate as San Diego, four times its size and double that of San Jose twice its size.

Minneapolis is 67% non-hisapnic white according to the 2000 census and Colorado Springs is 72% non-hispanic white if you look at the supplemental survey. So, if you look at the numbers both have relatively little diversity. By the Colorado Springs doesnt try to price immigrants out of the community, like Minneapolis.

To the you the extent of Minneapolis and its crime rate compared to Colorado Springs..

In 2002...
Minneapolis had a violent crime rate of 1,056
Colorado Springs had a violent crime rate of 507
Denver had a violent crime rate of 534

So as you can see Denver's violent crime rate per 100,000 people is about half of what Minneapolis is...and Colorado Springs is even lower, despite having the same population as Minneapolis proper.

To tell you how high of homicide rate is in Minneapolis in 1995 and 1996 Minneapolis had 179 homicides...This is more than than Colorado Springs had from 1993 to 2002...So despite having a 3,000 person population difference, Minneapolis is way up there on homicide rate.

Minneapolis with 383,000 people had more homicides in 1995 and 1996 than San Jose with 927,000 people had in five years.

In Fact, Minneapolis with 383,000 people is tied with San Diego a city of 1.26 million people with the homicide in 2002...Minneapolis in fact even beat out San Diego in 1995

Your right Minneapolis has a big problem with crime that in the energizer bunny, just keeps going and going and going. I mean serious more murder than San Diego which is almost four times it's size, That is really something to proud of.

The problem with Minneapolis is it is run by billionaire business barons, who pay people so low that the residents have to resort to crime to pay the bills.

Minneapolis is about as conservative and uncompassionate as they come and it seems like the poor are tired of the Minnesota elite.

Denvernative: I've seen plenty of your posts but this time I just want to know: Where the hell do you come up with all of this shit? I've never seen someone draw such wild conculsions about cities from random statistics taken out of context. Everyone knows that Colorado Springs is suburban in nature while Minneapolis is a major urban center (or at least everyone on the planet with the exception of you) so how close they are in population really doesn't matter since their urban fabric is entirely different.

Not to mention, how do you generalize and personify an entire city like this:

"The problem with Minneapolis is it is run by billionaire business barons, who pay people so low that the residents have to resort to crime to pay the bills.
Minneapolis is about as conservative and uncompassionate as they come and it seems like the poor are tired of the Minnesota elite"

And make stupid analogies like this:

"Your right Minneapolis has a big problem with crime that in the energizer bunny, just keeps going and going and going. I mean serious more murder than San Diego which is almost four times it's size, That is really something to proud of. "

Here is a tip: You're means "you are". Your means your.

How am I supposed to attach any credibility to your arguments when you come up with warm piles of shit like this?

Its great that you like your city. I would expect nothing less. But to continuously talk about it like it is the best place on earth while drawing absurd conclusions about other cities by citing obscure, dated statistics you've seen isn't the way to go. If you want to do something productive, post some great pictures of the Denver skyline and some of its lesser known urban neighborhoods.

Your track record speaks for itself, and it makes me think you are some uneducated clown and your opinions simply don't matter.

[MinneapolisGuy]

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

Minneapolis is 67% non-hisapnic white according to the 2000 census and Colorado Springs is 72% non-hispanic white if you look at the supplemental survey. So, if you look at the numbers both have relatively little diversity. By the Colorado Springs doesnt try to price immigrants out of the community, like Minneapolis.

To the you the extent of Minneapolis and its crime rate compared to Colorado Springs..

In 2002...
Minneapolis had a violent crime rate of 1,056
Colorado Springs had a violent crime rate of 507
Denver had a violent crime rate of 534

So as you can see Denver's violent crime rate per 100,000 people is about half of what Minneapolis is...and Colorado Springs is even lower, despite having the same population as Minneapolis proper.

To tell you how high of homicide rate is in Minneapolis in 1995 and 1996 Minneapolis had 179 homicides...This is more than than Colorado Springs had from 1993 to 2002...So despite having a 3,000 person population difference, Minneapolis is way up there on homicide rate.

Your right Minneapolis has a big problem with crime that in the energizer bunny, just keeps going and going and going. I mean serious more murder than San Diego which is almost four times it's size, That is really something to proud of.

The problem with Minneapolis is it is run by billionaire business barons, who pay people so low that the residents have to resort to crime to pay the bills.

Minneapolis is about as conservative and uncompassionate as they come and it seems like the poor are tired of the Minnesota elite.

You have got to be the biggest fucking mooron in the entire fucking world.

Colorodo Springs is a fucking suburb, while Minneapolis is a major central city at the heart of a 3.5 million person metro. You simply can not compare crime rates of a CITY to a SUBURB regardless of the size similarities. Now I know why you failed out of UNO, you are a fucking mooron.

The Twin Cities and all of Minnesota also happen to be one of the most liberal states in the US. Do you think St Paul would accept over 5000 new Hmong refugees (the largest in the country) from Thailand if we were so conservtive. Would Samolian refugees (the largest in the country) flock to Minneapolis if we didn't intend to take care of them?

[Steely Dan]

denvernative is very quickly working his way up my all-time favorite forumer list (although he probably won't ever challenge silverlake for the top spot). the shit he comes up with is fucking hilarious.

SSC never fails in bringing clowns like him out of the woodwork.

[denvernative1982]

I also included San Diego and San Jose and compared those crime statistics to Minneapolis. So if you thought I was being unfair about it, San Diego and San Jose are parts of big metro areas

In my view 380,000 people is 380,000 people. Whether its in Minneapolis, Colorado Springs or Moscow. What the environment is doesnt matter, city or suburbs, immigrant or native. Evidently, the police jusrisdiction in Minneapolis and Colorado Springs is the same size. Minneapolis police have no jurisdiction over Edina or Woodbury or anything like that.




My stats are from
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov.Search/Crime/Crime.cfm
they are totally accurate, I do not embellish or make exaggertations.

[JB_Gold Coast]

Originally Posted by denvernative1982

I also included San Diego and San Jose and compared those crime statistics to Minneapolis. So if you thought I was being unfair about it, San Diego and San Jose are parts of big metro areas

In my view 380,000 people is 380,000 people. Whether its in Minneapolis, Colorado Springs or Moscow. What the environment is doesnt matter, city or suburbs, immigrant or native. Evidently, the police jusrisdiction in Minneapolis and Colorado Springs is the same size. Minneapolis police have no jurisdiction over Edina or Woodbury or anything like that.




My stats are from
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov.Search/Crime/Crime.cfm
they are totally accurate, I do not embellish or make exaggertations.

It isn't that your statistics aren't accurate, its that the way you interpret them is inaccurate. The point is 380,000 people in Colorado Springs isn't the same as 380,000 people in Minneapolis or the same as 380,000 people in a 10000 square mile area in South Dakota. If you knew anything about cities, you would understand that.

St. Louis has roughly 330,000 people and a much higher crime rate than Colorado Springs. But do you think there is a cubic inch of Colorado Springs that is as urban as St. Louis? I hope not. And I would hope you understand the difference, and how you need to keep that in mind when you analyze, quote, and draw conclusions from statistics.

[denvernative1982]

I respectfully disagree, I dont think that any excuse exists why urban density should cause more crime?

I mean if everybody is happy, why differentiate one group of 380,000 people and another that is 380,000 people. Its evident that Minneapolis is doing that causes a cluster of 380,000 people to have drastically more behavior that society demms detrimental than the same 380,000 people in Colorado Springs or South Dakota.

By your line of reasoning in my opinion your saying that urban density causes crime (why dont Tokyo and London have high violent crime then?), I believe its more economics. The conclusion I draw is that those more of those 380,000 people in Minneapolis are being placed under more hardship than those same 380,000 in South Dakota.

London is alot more dense than New Orleans, not to mention 15 times the same size. So how come London has 125-150 to homicides a year and the other broken 400 homicides a year. By the following logic, London should be much more violent than New Orleans because of density!

[sfhoya]

Denver had 94 murders last year (pop. 554636) - a 50% increase over the previous year. Seattle (pop. 563,374) had 23. Does this mean that Denver has more billionaire business barons and a greater culture of greed than Seattle? Or just more Energizer bunnies?

Of course, this is a thread about Denver so I apologize for getting us off topic. Let's get back to the Protocols of the Elders of Minneapolis...