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Old April 4th, 2005, 01:15 PM   #101
Fastphilly
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Besides Los Angeles,San Francisco, and Vancouver what is PAL's next farthest route?
And on their fourth longest route are they using one of their 744's or 340's?
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Old April 4th, 2005, 02:38 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastphilly
Besides Los Angeles,San Francisco, and Vancouver what is PAL's next farthest route?
And on their fourth longest route are they using one of their 744's or 340's?
I would say Honolulu which is 5300 miles. I am not sure if they use a B744 or A343 all the time, but the times I have taken the flight, and the times that I have viewed their schedule, they operate this flight using B744 or A343 but I would imagine it is reachable using an A333.
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Old April 5th, 2005, 07:34 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbmandy
International (bottom) and Domestic (top) Terminals in NAIA


In terminal 3 i hope they will going to extend the right concourse by additional 6 contact gates in the future because int his photo we can see that the concourse is expandable. They should build contact gates for Airbus A380.
yeah ur right and they can also extend the terminal 2 towards nayong pilipino???
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Old April 6th, 2005, 02:20 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYLINEPIGEON
yeah ur right and they can also extend the terminal 2 towards nayong pilipino???
Thats true, but I think they have to solve the problem of what to do with the Philippine Village Hotel, as this is directly adjacent to T2.

Regarding extending T3's north concourse, there is a general rule in airport design that recommends that length of a concourse should not exceed 400m, unless some mode of moving large volumes of passengers is provided. This concourse is currently 330m lengths. If the additional gates are to be used for A380 planes, then a APM will definitely have to be provided, in addition to improving the baggage conveyor system for the entire north concourse, as this is expected to increase the peak passenger flow by 1500 passenger per hour.
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Old April 6th, 2005, 05:40 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docz
Thats true, but I think they have to solve the problem of what to do with the Philippine Village Hotel, as this is directly adjacent to T2.

Regarding extending T3's north concourse, there is a general rule in airport design that recommends that length of a concourse should not exceed 400m, unless some mode of moving large volumes of passengers is provided. This concourse is currently 330m lengths. If the additional gates are to be used for A380 planes, then a APM will definitely have to be provided, in addition to improving the baggage conveyor system for the entire north concourse, as this is expected to increase the peak passenger flow by 1500 passenger per hour.
just curious.

mode like monorail or walkalator?

what about in kansai and new bkk airport. their concourse is more longer than naia 3. what mode do they have?
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Old April 6th, 2005, 07:05 AM   #106
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really nice! super modern! When I visted Manila the second terminal was fresh new. I still dont know why there isnt a direct flight from New York to Manila. When I went we had to stop at Guam.
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Old April 6th, 2005, 07:19 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latin l0cO
really nice! super modern! When I visted Manila the second terminal was fresh new. I still dont know why there isnt a direct flight from New York to Manila. When I went we had to stop at Guam.
b'coz west coast is more profitable since there are large number of filipino immigrants in that area and it is more closer i think. it's good to see you posting in our thread latin loco.
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Old April 6th, 2005, 08:26 AM   #108
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A flight from Manila to NYC? Do you really want to be on a flight that lasts 24+ hours? Hahaha.
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Old April 6th, 2005, 11:27 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbmandy
just curious.

mode like monorail or walkalator?

what about in kansai and new bkk airport. their concourse is more longer than naia 3. what mode do they have?
If you notice Kansai is a linear layout a.k.a the concourse is parallel to the taxiway. An APM carries international passengers to the international gates which are at the edges of the concourse. Kansai is a difficult case because you have a single terminal for both domestic and interational where there is full grade separation. That means you have separate levels for international arrivals and departures and domestic arrivals and departures, in order that you dont make different categories of passengers and baggage mix together due to difference in the processing requirements.

In Suvarnabhumi BKK (to differentiate it from Don Muang), it is all travelators because the concourses do not exceed the 5 parkings bays per concourse, with the exception of the central concourse adajcent to the main terminal building which has 8 bays. This is where this principle is violated. Here it is diffult to install a APM running the axis of the concourse, because there are plans of constructing an APM that will run perpendicular to the concourse going to a satellite terminal.

In HKK you need a APM to get to the east part of the terminal because the concourse has 8 gates, but once you reach this part of the terminal-the two legs of the Y are less then 5 gates. KLIA also satisfies this rule, whereas the addition or extension of concourses in Changi results in a violation of these rules.

The analysis of manyl of these terminal layouts, both horizontal and vertical (grade separation) aspects are described as case studies in several well known textbooks on airport engineering. I am just paraphrasing what is described.
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Old April 6th, 2005, 11:33 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louman
A flight from Manila to NYC? Do you really want to be on a flight that lasts 24+ hours? Hahaha.
I did hahaha I had breakfast, lunch, dinner, breakfast hahaha and if I remember correctly 3 movies were shown.
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Old April 6th, 2005, 11:34 AM   #111
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I forgot to mention that NAIA-3 is a modification on the very common linear layout where the concourse has the 5-4-5 configuration with a total length of between 1100 to 1200m. This is because a B747 parking bay has a width of between 80 to 90 meters. Changi 2 (before the addition of the two concourses), Athens have similar horizontal layouts. Narita-2 is even closer with very similar horiztonal and vertical layouts.
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Old April 6th, 2005, 03:25 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latin l0cO
really nice! super modern! When I visted Manila the second terminal was fresh new. I still dont know why there isnt a direct flight from New York to Manila. When I went we had to stop at Guam.
PAL used to have flights to EWR (Newark Liberty International Airport) in New Jersey in the early 1990s, but it was scrapped after PAL's financial crisis. Now the only North American cities they serve are all on the West Coast (Vancouver, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Las Vegas and Honolulu).
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Old April 7th, 2005, 12:31 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louman
A flight from Manila to NYC? Do you really want to be on a flight that lasts 24+ hours? Hahaha.
hehehe I been on the Newark-Tokyo Flight Im sure a few extra hours wouldn't make much of a difference. No but seriously though they are alot of flipinos in the New York area especially New Jersey. Maybe they will renew the flight in the future someday.
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Old April 7th, 2005, 06:35 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docz
I forgot to mention that NAIA-3 is a modification on the very common linear layout where the concourse has the 5-4-5 configuration with a total length of between 1100 to 1200m. This is because a B747 parking bay has a width of between 80 to 90 meters. Changi 2 (before the addition of the two concourses), Athens have similar horizontal layouts. Narita-2 is even closer with very similar horiztonal and vertical layouts.
ummm... what's the 5-4-5 configuration at NAIA-3?
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Old April 7th, 2005, 09:16 AM   #115
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I would it explain the 5-4-5 configuration this way. A typical linear terminal consists of a head house, with two concourses, one on each side of the head house forming a footprint that looks like a wide "T" with a fat stem.

The length of each concourse is normally 5 parking bays wide, while the width of the head house is normally 4 parking bays wide. Here, I am referring to a parking bay that has a typical width of 80m. Consequently the frontage of the airside has a total of 14 parking bays, and a length somewhere in the vicity of between 1040 to 1120. In some cases the gates are only one side of the concourse. An example of this is the main terminal of the new Athens airport. In other cases, gates are found on both sides of the concourses such as Pudong, Shanghai.

At NAIA3 the frontage has a total of 14 parking positions (107 through 120) each of which can handle a B747. There are 6 additional parking positions (101 through 106) which are located behind the south concourse. If you look at the terminal from runway 13-31, the parking positions are actually arranged in 5-4-5 configuration, although it appears like 4-4-5 if you count the sloping ramps. This is because gate 116, where there is a junction of the north concourse with the head house, does not have a ramp.

Last edited by docz; April 7th, 2005 at 05:15 PM.
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Old April 11th, 2005, 09:09 PM   #116
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correct me docz if im wrong naia3 base on this layout has 4-4-6. is that right? while kansai has 9-6-9? and Athens has 4-6-4?

Many major international airport did not follow the 5-4-5 so is it possible for the fraport to make naia3 into 6-6-6 or 5-5-5? just to make it balance and or just to maximize the length of the apron....they can use a high speed travelator right?
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Old April 12th, 2005, 02:43 AM   #117
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Thank you for your comments. From the plan it looks like 4-4-6, as I initially thought just look at the plans in 2001. But in 2002 when I was able to see the building, I found out the headhouse is wider on the airside than on the landside such that gate 112 is actually is part of the head house rather than the south concourse. Also, while the bridge for gate 116 is in the headhouse, the waiting area as well as the access into the bridge is in the north concourse. That is why I say it is a variation of the 5-4-5 concept.
But I would also consider 4-4-6 still to be a variation of the 5-4-5 concept.
None the less, the main part of the south concourse is within the prescribed 450m length.

Kansai has an APM that brings you to the ends of the long concourses. That is how they solve the problem of having a very long concourse.

I honestly doubt that Athens has a 6-4-6 layout because it only has 14 gates in its main terminal. I think this can be checked with the airports web page (look under facts and figures). Based on the floor plan and location of the gates I believe it is 5-4-5. Also not all of the parking positions in Athens are of the same width, such that the total length of the main terminal building is less than that of NAIA3. I use Athens as an example, because it is also designed by the same team from SOM that were involved in NAIA3.

The problem with extending the north concourse at NAIA3 into the remote parking area is that exisiting the travellators do not run the full length of the concourse. Installing more travellators is more complicated than it actually appears (like installing an elevator where there is no elevator). Also, how does extending the concourse affect the flow of passengers and baggage inside the existing concourse - this should be looked into. BTW it is possible for a remote parking gate to have a loading bridge without a concourse. This is done in Munich.

Maybe what you mean is a high speed APM. I spoke to my cousin who is the general maneger of IEE a.k.a the local branch of Mitsubishi in the Philippines, and he told me that all the Mitsubishi travellators have the same range of speeds. The main differences are in the width and length of the travellator which does not exceed 150 meters in length.

Athens does have a remote satellite connected to the terminal by travellators in underground passage way. However, most people I know who evaluated this set up rate it poorly because of the required number of grade changes.
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Old April 12th, 2005, 05:16 AM   #118
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Maybe I should clarify that having a concourse less than 450m is the ideal condition. However, there are cases where the concourse is longer than that length, such as in Changi. Although the concourse is bent it does have a total length of between 500m to 600m, and they do use travelators. But the difference here is that the travellators are along the whole length of the concourse. In cases where the concourse was extended, the original concourse had travellators along the whole length. If you tried doing this to the North concourse of NAIA3 you would run into numerous problems. This was what happened when they tried to expand Narita terminal 1. That is why some of the travellators are skewed so as to avoid tearing down load bearing elements, stairwells and elevator shafts.

Maybe what I should say is that current experience indicates that when the concourse is more than 5 full gates long, passengers complain that it seems too long even when travellators are used. But of course, for purposes of expediency, you can have a concourse with more than 5 full gates. By full gate I mean a gate that can accomodate a 747. In certain cases, there are more gates but these are narrower, such as in Munich Terminal II. But if you notice KLIA and BKK, they all keep their concourses length within the 5 full gates per concourse, although in BKK there are slight violations of this rule with the extra length at the junction to aid aircraft manueverability, and the main concourse adjacent to head house being 510 meters long.

Last edited by docz; April 12th, 2005 at 07:04 AM.
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Old April 12th, 2005, 07:22 AM   #119
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Have you seen the travelators of NAIA3 what is the length of each one? They said they had 9 travelators why dont make it 10. It means there is one travelator that is only going to the other side?

How many travelators are there per concourse in NAIA3?
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Old April 12th, 2005, 08:52 AM   #120
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This is kinda off topic but yea.. Im Glad NAIA 3 Didn't end up to look like Athens. IMO the design isn't really great and look at the jetways. they didn't even bother to put double jetways but none the less. Its been voted one of the best airport in Europe so i guess that outweighs the overall look of the terminal
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