daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 24th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #101
Gros Matou
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Montréal
Posts: 83
Likes (Received): 75

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
1. New York / MTA Bus - 2.4 Million (2015)
2. Toronto / TTC Bus - 1.3 Million (2015)
3. Los Angeles / MTA Bus - 1.083 Million (2015)
4. Montreal / SCT Bus - 965,300 (2015)
5. Chicago / CTA Bus - 868,800 (2015)

6. Philadelphia / SEPTA Bus - 526,400 (2015)
7. Ottawa / OC Transport - 519,600 (2015)
The public transit company in Montréal is STM, which stands for Société de Transport de Montréal.
http://www.stm.info/en

Also, in Ottawa, the public transit operator is OC Transpo.
http://www.octranspo1.com/splash
Gros Matou no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 24th, 2015, 09:45 PM   #102
Gros Matou
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Montréal
Posts: 83
Likes (Received): 75

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Added , Montreal is the only city listed on the APTA for some reason.
Indeed, few transit agencies in Québec are listed in the APTA. You could also add Longueuil's RTL (Réseau de Transport de Longueuil), with a daily ridership of 139 000 (34 million annually, figures of 2011).
http://www.rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/en-CA/rtl/

Also, Laval's STL with a daily ridership of 74 000. (Annual ridership of 21 million).
http://stl.laval.qc.ca/userfiles/fil...utomne__FR.pdf

And Gatineau's STO with a daily ridership of 83 600. (Annual ridership of 20 million).
http://www.sto.ca/index.php?id=385&L=fr

Note : I don't know if the figures provided are counted the same way the APTA does. Thus, they might not be totally representative for comparison purposes with APTA's figures.
__________________

Dooie_Amsterdammert, Nexis liked this post
Gros Matou no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2015, 11:26 AM   #103
Dooie_Amsterdammert
Loving #dutch windwheel
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: molecity
Posts: 1,015
Likes (Received): 118

@Nexis: I thought these numbers where representations of ridership during the first whole quarter..
But these are daily riderships right?

If a person knowns the actual daily numbers, it's quite obvious.
If someone (like myself) doesn't know the numbers except for nyc's subway numbers, it's not that clear.

Btw, is this meant as an international stats discussion?
Can users from other countries post their regional stats here?

Might be A good idea to post APTA's analysis and calculations of these numbers.

Last edited by Dooie_Amsterdammert; August 25th, 2015 at 11:35 AM. Reason: my brain is not working today..
Dooie_Amsterdammert no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2015, 05:11 PM   #104
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,688
Likes (Received): 17044

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Matou View Post
Indeed, few transit agencies in Québec are listed in the APTA. You could also add Longueuil's RTL (Réseau de Transport de Longueuil), with a daily ridership of 139 000 (34 million annually, figures of 2011).
http://www.rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/en-CA/rtl/

Also, Laval's STL with a daily ridership of 74 000. (Annual ridership of 21 million).
http://stl.laval.qc.ca/userfiles/fil...utomne__FR.pdf

And Gatineau's STO with a daily ridership of 83 600. (Annual ridership of 20 million).
http://www.sto.ca/index.php?id=385&L=fr

Note : I don't know if the figures provided are counted the same way the APTA does. Thus, they might not be totally representative for comparison purposes with APTA's figures.
Updated the list with all the Quebec cities listed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooie_Amsterdammert View Post
@Nexis: I thought these numbers where representations of ridership during the first whole quarter..
But these are daily riderships right?

If a person knowns the actual daily numbers, it's quite obvious.
If someone (like myself) doesn't know the numbers except for nyc's subway numbers, it's not that clear.

Btw, is this meant as an international stats discussion?
Can users from other countries post their regional stats here?

Might be A good idea to post APTA's analysis and calculations of these numbers.
No , these are daily ridership numbers. The NYC Numbers are unlinked trips...meaning transfers are counted. So If a person enters one part of the system and transfers to another line , both his trips are counted. If update the numbers with the linked trip dated which is still high. Yes , I would like it for other countries to post there daily numbers.
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2015, 06:03 PM   #105
Robi_damian
Registered User
 
Robi_damian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Timisoara
Posts: 2,756
Likes (Received): 9996

Relative to its population size, Canada seems to be doing better than the US... The big exception and the continental absolute outlier is New York. I cannot think of any other country in which one city and MA has such a different transport pattern as opposed to all the rest...
Robi_damian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2015, 06:51 PM   #106
ode of bund
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Shanghai-Edmonton, Places where ETBs are molested.
Posts: 228
Likes (Received): 70

Public transit ridership in Shanghai at the end of 1980's was 5.5 billion annually, which was more than the entire population on earth at that time (5.0 billion). Keep in mind there was not an inch of subway in Shanghai at the end 1980's, the entire ridership was carried by buses. Surprisingly now Shanghai has more mileages of subway than any other city in the world (except perhaps Beijing), and yet the ridership has declined to 3.0 billion.
__________________

Dooie_Amsterdammert liked this post
ode of bund no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2015, 02:50 AM   #107
Dooie_Amsterdammert
Loving #dutch windwheel
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: molecity
Posts: 1,015
Likes (Received): 118

@Ode of bund:

Probably because of carpatrionage and other motorized vehicles.
Numbers will rise when car ownership will lower within a couple of years.

@Robi_damian:
What do you mean by 'MA'?

@Nexis: Too bad i don't know the accurate numbers hopefully A dutch insightful forummember will provide numbers from the netherlands..
Dooie_Amsterdammert no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2015, 07:55 AM   #108
ssiguy2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 5,404
Likes (Received): 859

In London Ontario, the transit carries about 61,000 passengers a day which is quite high considering it only serves 375,000.
ssiguy2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2015, 01:27 PM   #109
nanar
nanar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lyon 6è - (www).darly.org & (www).lyonmetro.org
Posts: 6,071
Likes (Received): 1532

Quote:
Originally Posted by ode of bund View Post
Public transit ridership in Shanghai at the end of 1980's was 5.5 billion annually...
there was not an inch of subway in Shanghai at the end 1980's, the entire ridership was carried by buses.
Surprisingly now Shanghai has more mileages of subway than any other city in the world (except perhaps Beijing), and yet the ridership has declined to 3.0 billion.
Ridership of 3.0 billion in 2014 is just in subway, no ? How many still in bus ? May be, more ?
__________________
.

Découvrez les sites darly.org & lyonmetro.org
"Si vous ne considérez pas le vélo urbain comme une partie de la solution aux problèmes de déplacement dans les villes, vous êtes une partie du problème".

Dooie_Amsterdammert liked this post

Last edited by nanar; August 26th, 2015 at 01:34 PM.
nanar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2015, 01:39 PM   #110
nanar
nanar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lyon 6è - (www).darly.org & (www).lyonmetro.org
Posts: 6,071
Likes (Received): 1532

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
In London Ontario, the transit carries about 61,000 passengers a day which is quite high considering it only serves 375,000.
??? Probably 375,000 persons ride less or more 1,2 million times per day.
61 000 is only 5 %
__________________
.

Découvrez les sites darly.org & lyonmetro.org
"Si vous ne considérez pas le vélo urbain comme une partie de la solution aux problèmes de déplacement dans les villes, vous êtes une partie du problème".

Last edited by nanar; August 26th, 2015 at 03:02 PM.
nanar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2015, 05:22 PM   #111
saiho
Registered User
 
saiho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 多伦多/多倫多
Posts: 1,361
Likes (Received): 1301

Quote:
Originally Posted by ode of bund View Post
Public transit ridership in Shanghai at the end of 1980's was 5.5 billion annually, which was more than the entire population on earth at that time (5.0 billion). Keep in mind there was not an inch of subway in Shanghai at the end 1980's, the entire ridership was carried by buses. Surprisingly now Shanghai has more mileages of subway than any other city in the world (except perhaps Beijing), and yet the ridership has declined to 3.0 billion.
The population of Shanghai in the 1980's was ~11 million, today its over 24 million. Car usage has grown a lot but compared to Europe and America it is still very small. The Shanghai Metro carries 2.8 billion in 2014 and I heard that buses also carried a similar amount. But transit ridership has been growing. buses carried 2.65 billion and subway only 1 billion in 2007.

PS Shanghai's Subway is larger than Beijing's
saiho no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2015, 09:57 PM   #112
ode of bund
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Shanghai-Edmonton, Places where ETBs are molested.
Posts: 228
Likes (Received): 70

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooie_Amsterdammert View Post
@Ode of bund:

Probably because of carpatrionage and other motorized vehicles.
Numbers will rise when car ownership will lower within a couple of years.
Shanghai did offer very cheap monthly bus passes in the 80's, and almost all employee who worked for state owned enterprises were subsidized for their bus passes. That's why it created such a ginormous patronage. Bus passes were eliminated in 1996 in the midst of so called public transit reform, plus many state owned enterprises were either privatized or bankrupted, which drove away a huge portion of transit ridership.
ode of bund no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2015, 05:06 AM   #113
saiho
Registered User
 
saiho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 多伦多/多倫多
Posts: 1,361
Likes (Received): 1301

Every time I read the APTA ridership reports it really depresses me. The numbers are so low, yet they are artificially inflated by double or triple counting transfers and only averaging counts for weekday traffic.
saiho no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2015, 08:46 AM   #114
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,960
Likes (Received): 18218

Quote:
Originally Posted by ode of bund View Post
Shanghai did offer very cheap monthly bus passes in the 80's, and almost all employee who worked for state owned enterprises were subsidized for their bus passes. That's why it created such a ginormous patronage. Bus passes were eliminated in 1996 in the midst of so called public transit reform, plus many state owned enterprises were either privatized or bankrupted, which drove away a huge portion of transit ridership.
We also need to take into consideration the migrant population, which was about 40% of the city's total population. Many of these are low-wage workers who would normally not need to commute or use public transport at all. These people are provided accomodations on-site in dormitories. If you pass by a major construction site, you will see several stories of portables, which is where these workers live.

So the irony is, the population has increased substantially, yet per capita ridership may even drop due to the new demographic make-up.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2017, 11:03 AM   #115
Miami High Rise
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,543
Likes (Received): 2565

Reliability of phenomenal ridership stats from various metros

What do you guys make of some of the incredible numbers that come out of systems such as the Cairo Metro in Egypt? Now at over 3 million a day, doubling in 10 years, and more than half of the NYC Subway? Even with an eighth the stations and an eighth the mileage? I know the outer parts of the NYC subway could be desribed as vastly underutilized compared to the core everyone pictures in Manhattan and inner Brooklyn, but how are some of these numbers possible? There would have to be sustained high capacity operation, running near peak for much more than a limited rush hour?

Sometimes when I come across numbers like this, I can't believe they managed to get sample pics that show empty trains and stations, and articles (wikipedia mainly) make no mention of crowding or capacity issues?

Cairo Metro 3.6 million 61 stations 3 lines 50 miles

MTR has tons of ridership per mile, total ridership close to NYC with way less stations and mileage, congestion must be much more even, where in NYC it's strategic bottlenecks such as the Lexington Line.

Sao Paulo and St Petersberg also have very high ridership for medium sized systems. In the US at least, where transit is a tough sell and funding is scarce, ridership predictions are often vastly overstated,
and there is definitely a case where the operator or government would be tempted to lie to inflate numbers.

And if we want to talk corruption, lets go to sub saharan Africa, a nascent developing continent. The recent Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) light rail, a small system, has carried over 150,000 riders a day with a near term
prediction of 200,000, which is basically exactly 10,000 per mile, not bad for light rail.

With urban transport geekery down to exact switch, track, car, railyard, and signal capacity on systems such as the NYC Subway, does anybody take issue with some of these lofty reported numbers?
I know the top five or major systems with hundreds of route miles are portrayed and reported as overcrowded, with mobs of people waiting on platforms and being pushed into trains, so how do some of these small and medium metros even come close to that level of ridership?
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post

Last edited by Miami High Rise; March 24th, 2017 at 11:12 AM.
Miami High Rise no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2017, 02:56 PM   #116
Alargule
Res Uder et Siger
 
Alargule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,210
Likes (Received): 2093

I guess it all comes down to how 'ridership' is being defined and how it's being measured. There's no single, standard definition that's applied worldwide, which makes comparisons difficult. And if the numbers are based on sampling, for example by counting number of people entering/exiting a station for about an hour at some busy stations, the resulting figures can become very skewed.

The most accurate way of measuring would be by check-ins with Metrocard or Oystercard-like systems. The number of daily entries can then be retrieved easily from the database storing all these figures. This should provide a pretty reliable overall figure.

Defining 'ridership' is a lot harder. Simply counting the number of entering passengers gives you a system-by-system idea, but that number doesn't easily allow for cross-system comparison. You'd rather like to know how many miles those passengers travelled in the system. That figure can be compared to the service mileage (i.e. the sum distance that all trains travelled during the same period).

The formula 'passenger miles divided by train miles' yields 'passengers per train', which should give a better indication of how 'busy' a transit system is. And it allows for better comparison between systems.
__________________
Nu op Wordpress: Rails in Amsterdam
Alargule no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2017, 02:57 PM   #117
saiho
Registered User
 
saiho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 多伦多/多倫多
Posts: 1,361
Likes (Received): 1301

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami High Rise View Post
What do you guys make of some of the incredible numbers that come out of systems such as the Cairo Metro in Egypt? Now at over 3 million a day, doubling in 10 years, and more than half of the NYC Subway? Even with an eighth the stations and an eighth the mileage? I know the outer parts of the NYC subway could be desribed as vastly underutilized compared to the core everyone pictures in Manhattan and inner Brooklyn, but how are some of these numbers possible? There would have to be sustained high capacity operation, running near peak for much more than a limited rush hour?

Sometimes when I come across numbers like this, I can't believe they managed to get sample pics that show empty trains and stations, and articles (wikipedia mainly) make no mention of crowding or capacity issues?

Cairo Metro 3.6 million 61 stations 3 lines 50 miles

MTR has tons of ridership per mile, total ridership close to NYC with way less stations and mileage, congestion must be much more even, where in NYC it's strategic bottlenecks such as the Lexington Line.

Sao Paulo and St Petersberg also have very high ridership for medium sized systems. In the US at least, where transit is a tough sell and funding is scarce, ridership predictions are often vastly overstated,
and there is definitely a case where the operator or government would be tempted to lie to inflate numbers.

And if we want to talk corruption, lets go to sub saharan Africa, a nascent developing continent. The recent Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) light rail, a small system, has carried over 150,000 riders a day with a near term
prediction of 200,000, which is basically exactly 10,000 per mile, not bad for light rail.

With urban transport geekery down to exact switch, track, car, railyard, and signal capacity on systems such as the NYC Subway, does anybody take issue with some of these lofty reported numbers?
I know the top five or major systems with hundreds of route miles are portrayed and reported as overcrowded, with mobs of people waiting on platforms and being pushed into trains, so how do some of these small and medium metros even come close to that level of ridership?
I would believe it. Many of these systems have strong ridership outside of rush hour particularly midday on weekend ridership in addition to a much more prolonged rush hour. Based on what I have seen the MTR only has slightly less ridership on weekends compared to weekdays. Trains do run at a pretty even high frequency all day. Also it has to do to the physical geography New York everyone floods into Manhattan for work and floods back out in the PM rush. A long 40km trip uses up capacity for 40km yet counts as only one ride. While in HK the urban lines have major commercial areas sprinkled along the line so "counter peak trains" are fairly well utilized and people make short hops and commutes that do not head to the CBD all throughout the line. These factors lead to a higher ridership per mile. as for the other systems I can not say, the Cairo Metro's stat is a little suspect. the system is well used but I don't think it could have generated that number.
__________________

nanar liked this post
saiho no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2017, 03:42 PM   #118
Miami High Rise
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,543
Likes (Received): 2565

Yes I would say MTR is the one I was least suspicious of, but it's still very dense ridership,
while Cairo was specifically the one that tipped me over the edge to posting about it.
Miami High Rise no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2017, 01:27 AM   #119
historyworks
Perpetual Bohemian
 
historyworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,366
Likes (Received): 316

There is another thread here somewhere where somebody has done a tabulation of metro riderships vs city population and Prague has the highest per capita ridership in the world (600 million ppa on the metro, city population 1.2 million). Vienna I recall was second.
__________________
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
historyworks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2017, 08:53 PM   #120
nanar
nanar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lyon 6è - (www).darly.org & (www).lyonmetro.org
Posts: 6,071
Likes (Received): 1532

I also think that some cities with low or medium size metro have high ridership because the "medium traveller" rides short distance.
So, the same (sitting or standing) place in the vehicle is used many times during one end to end train journey.
__________________
.

Découvrez les sites darly.org & lyonmetro.org
"Si vous ne considérez pas le vélo urbain comme une partie de la solution aux problèmes de déplacement dans les villes, vous êtes une partie du problème".
nanar no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium