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Old August 30th, 2015, 12:47 PM   #61
Eulanthe
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Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Exactly! And to that the fact that Schengen was denied for years for România and Bulgaria because they are not able to defend the EU borders .
It's absolutely absurd, and now with this latest crisis, I cannot imagine that Schengen will expand anymore.

Speaking of which, Croatia is definitely in trouble now as regards Schengen. Slovenia has more or less made it absolutely clear that they will block Croatian accession as a result of Croatia pulling out of the border arbitration agreement.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 12:53 PM   #62
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Between Croatia and Hungary there is a minimalistic joint border facility (built even before Croatia joined EU) only on Hungarian side, that will be easily dismantled: https://goo.gl/maps/VCp6l, only for cars and buses.

Trucks go through old Goričan/Letenye border crossing.
Why they chose to make the motorway border crossing only for passenger traffic? It's stupid to force trucks to make a longer detour on a 2-lanes road, especially considering that since 2013 there isn't custom control anymore on the H-HR border.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 05:26 PM   #63
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Schengen border?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0QZ0CN20150830

France criticizes eastern Europe, Hungary over refugee policy

Quote:
"With regard to all those people who are politically chased out of their country we have to be able to welcome them," Fabius told Europe 1 radio. "Every country has to respond to that. France, Germany, others have, but when I see certain countries that do not accept these groups, I find that scandalous."

"In particular eastern European states. They are extremely harsh. Hungary is part of Europe, which has values and we do not respect those value by putting up fences," Fabius said.

Hungary, which is part of Europe's passport-free Schengen zone, is building a fence along its border with Serbia to contain what it calls a threat to European security, prosperity and identity.

"Hungary is not respecting Europe's common values so the European authorities need to have a serious discussions, even a stern discussion with its officials," Fabius said.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 05:55 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Why they chose to make the motorway border crossing only for passenger traffic? It's stupid to force trucks to make a longer detour on a 2-lanes road, especially considering that since 2013 there isn't custom control anymore on the H-HR border.
Look at the map, it's not that much of a detour, old border crossing is right besides new one. Actually, the old border crossing can only be reached via (untolled) motorway on croatian side. On old crossing all facilities were already built, it would be a waste of (EU taxpayer) money to build a new one.

Šentilj/Spielfeld had a similar regime, motorway crossing was passenger only, old one right next to it was used for freight.

Last edited by Gedeon; August 30th, 2015 at 06:02 PM.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 06:02 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
It's absolutely absurd, and now with this latest crisis, I cannot imagine that Schengen will expand anymore.

Speaking of which, Croatia is definitely in trouble now as regards Schengen. Slovenia has more or less made it absolutely clear that they will block Croatian accession as a result of Croatia pulling out of the border arbitration agreement.
Trouble? We consider that a favour
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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:02 PM   #66
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Schengen border?
Of course HR-H isn't a Schengen border, but since 2013 it's an inner EU border, so no custom control anymore but only ID/passport control.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:29 PM   #67
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Looks like Schengen is practically abolished at the A-HU border.


Cars queuing for 12 miles to get across Austrian border due to tighter controls as migrants flood from eastern Europe despite completion of 13 foot fence and razor wire
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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:43 PM   #68
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Queue on Hungarian M1 westbound into Austria this AM. Daily Mail photo.



These delays will destroy commerce in SE Europe if every border is backlogged all the way back to Istanbul.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:50 PM   #69
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Schengen border?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0QZ0CN20150830

France criticizes eastern Europe, Hungary over refugee policy
France should send buses and take them to France. Germany as well. I do not get it how the 2 expect to find a solution to the problem of massive migration from Asia and Africa into EU when they basically tell them to come over because they will be welcome (Merkel especially). And what do they expect the millions or tens of millions of potential migrant people in Asia and Africa to do when they already considering fleeing areas of wars, famine and other human disasters?! This kind of populist attitude will destroy Schengen and possibly even more than Schengen .
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Old August 31st, 2015, 12:53 PM   #70
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France stopped migrants entering from Italy (near Nice) only a few months back. There was/is a camp in Ventimiglia.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 01:15 PM   #71
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Austria and Slovenia are patrolling the border with Hungary, Italy is patrolling the border with Slovenia, France is patrolling the border with Italy,... the Schengen system risks to collapse.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 03:29 PM   #72
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Well maybe the Tooth Fairy brought them to Italy on their way to Switzerland then. Bad Tooth Fairy.
I'd imagine they crossed from Libya, which is so safe that you're going on your hols there very soon...

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Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
The ECHR is entirely guilty of selective relativism so.
If you feel the decision is wrong, become a lawyer, practice successfully for years, become a senior judge, get yourself appointed to the European Court of Human Rights and persuade a majority of your fellow judges to overturn this decision - simples.

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Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
It is not called the Dublin Regulation...BUT it was agreed in Dublin when the Iron Curtain still existed...just about.
References to the Dublin Convention and the Dublin Regulation are, obviously enough, informal terms.

The Dublin Convention was signed in 1990 but it didn't come into force in any country until September 1997 at the earliest.

The Dublin Convention hasn't applied since 2003 - 12 years ago.

It was replaced by the Dublin II Regulation in 2003 (2006 for Denmark), which was modified in 2013:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...3R0604&from=EN

Switzerland, Iceland and Norway (among other non-EU countries) have agreed to apply the Dublin Regulation rules.

Which is why Switzerland can try to transfer asylum seekers back to another Dublin Regulation country...
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Old August 31st, 2015, 05:44 PM   #73
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Queue on At-Hu border now 30km long.

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Old August 31st, 2015, 06:36 PM   #74
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So much law talk here when law functions as much .... as much as there is a funcțional rule of law structure which now has collapsed, in this crisis.
MERKEL: QUARREL OVER MIGRANTS COULD CALL SCHENGEN INTO QUESTION


So, after stating refugees are welcome to Germany, and thus encouraging this tidal wave, Merkel wants to share them with the rest of EU or else she will break part of EU which is Schengen. Who can understand women ?!
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Old August 31st, 2015, 06:54 PM   #75
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Merkel wants to share them with the rest of EU or else she will break part of EU which is Schengen.
Did you never hear of the Law Of Unintended Consequences ???
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Old August 31st, 2015, 07:37 PM   #76
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Queue on At-Hu border now 30km long.

This is way, way worse than absorbing all those migrants. I hope they realise the insanity that reinstating borders in Europe is.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 10:25 PM   #77
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Of course HR-H isn't a Schengen border, but since 2013 it's an inner EU border, so no custom control anymore but only ID/passport control.
What I wanted to show is the traditional hypocrisy / scapegoating at work in western Europe.

If Hungary doesn't protect the Schengen border it is criticized for it. If they protect it, they are criticized for being inhuman.

If the East European countries don't want the quotas, they are criticized for it, if they detain the immigrants that don't want to stay in those countries, they are criticized for it.

And abolishing Schengen is being seen as what? Something morally superior to what Hungary does when it doesn't want the immigrants to enter it's border?

Let alone about the underlying geopolitic issues that are responsible for this situation and for which the East European countries have very little responsibility.


What I really lack in this situation is some realistic solution that will simply count with the real situation and motivations of both the immigrants and the European inhabitants. Instead of some quotas the EU could for example introduce subsidized integration programs for which the individual countries could apply for and by which they would be motivated to accept immigrants and the immigrants would be motivated to apply for all countries across the EU, not only the richest ones. These programs should be arranged as fast as possible and attractive to both attract the immigrants and make them quickly affiliated with the host countries, so that they would not be motivated to migrate further.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 11:15 PM   #78
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I hope they realise the insanity that reinstating borders in Europe is.
Not in these days. Only today, in just a few hours, several people smugglers were caught. Some refugees in trucks were so sick that they must have been transported to hospital.
Some days ago 70 people died in a truck. Such things shall not happen again.
Important: Austria let all the migrants in. No one was sent back to Hungary. Not any. The Austrian police simply want to save lives.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 12:23 AM   #79
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Today I've heard a lawyer saying that the UK is considering to leave the Schengen area.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 1st, 2015, 12:28 AM   #80
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So... who again will ever eat Slovak chicken?
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