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Old September 4th, 2015, 10:53 PM   #121
italystf
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Originally Posted by vespafrederic View Post
The refugees whom are walking to Wien via M1 motorway are now close to Herceghalom. If they will continue like that it will take few days to reach the border at Hegyeshalom.
Why do they walk along the motorway and not regular roads?
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I wonder if the migrant flows won't change towards HR->SLO->A now, though?
Once they're in Serbia, it makes sense to head towards Hungary, that is already in Schengen, instead of getting to Croatia and need to cross another border before entering Schengen area.

The only way for Schengen to survive is to fortify the whole eastern border, from Kirkenes to Alexandroupoli, with barbed wire, watchtowers, armed forces (like the USA-Mexico border) and patrol the Mediterranean sea from Gibraltar to Rhodos with police and military ships (like Australia). And, for the moment, please leave RO and BG out, not to punish them, but not to leave a free corridor between Greece and Western Europe.

In the past everybody was happy in Europe with no Schengen and showing ID at the border was routine. Now, people are used to consider international borders like administrative ones and, especially locals, often move between two different countries without passing through former border posts (but using the, then closed small roads, newly-built cyclelanes, hiking trails,...). An eventual abolition of Schengen would be quite traumatic for people living near a border and used to cross it whenever and wherever they want, without queues, IDs to show, and detours to reach official border crossings.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; September 4th, 2015 at 10:59 PM.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 10:53 PM   #122
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Hungary wants a full leaders summit next week on this and not an inconclusive interior ministers talking shop in 2 weeks time. Greek style negotiating from Viktor Orban.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 10:55 PM   #123
vespafrederic
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
All the trouble in Hungary just because EU is too lazy to keep them in EU...........
I don't get your point
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Old September 4th, 2015, 10:56 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Why do they walk along the motorway and not regular roads?

Once they're in Serbia, it makes sense to head towards Hungary, that is already in Schengen, instead of getting to Croatia and need to cross another border before entering Schengen area.

The only way for Schengen to survive is to fortify the whole eastern border, from Kirkenes to Alexandroupoli, with barbed wire, watchtowers, armed forces (like the USA-Mexico border) and patrol the Mediterranean sea from Gibraltar to Rhodos with police and military ships (like Australia). And, for the moment, please leave RO and BG out, not to punish them, but not to leave a free corridor between Greece and Western Europe.
I think they choosed the fattest line on the map between Budapest and Wien.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 10:59 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Hungary wants a full leaders summit next week on this and not an inconclusive interior ministers talking shop in 2 weeks time. Greek style negotiating from Viktor Orban.
Yes, and it is interior politics also, they have opposition on the right and they want to show force....
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Old September 4th, 2015, 11:04 PM   #126
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I don't get your point
Most of the refugees were already in a Schengen/EU country, in Greece. Why does the other Schengen/EU countries not help Greece to avoid people leaving Greece? If some Schengen/EU countries, e.g. Germany, wants to accommodate them, they could already pick them up in Greece.

What happens? These countries announce that refugees will be accommodated but they must arrive in these countries first. That means, dangerous travel (crossing barbed wire), expensive travel (people smuggling)... They encourage them to do illegal things like crossing borders illegally. That's just stupid and not human at all.......
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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Old September 4th, 2015, 11:07 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Most of the refugees were already in a Schengen/EU country, in Greece. Why does the other Schengen/EU countries not help Greece to avoid people leaving Greece? If some Schengen/EU countries, e.g. Germany, wants to accommodate them, they could already pick them up in Greece.

What happens? These countries announce that refugees will be accommodated but they must arrive in these countries first. That means, dangerous travel (crossing barbed wire), expensive travel (people smuggling)... They encourage them to do illegal things like crossing borders illegally. That's just stupid.......
Now I got it. Thanks!

You have absolutly right.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 11:10 PM   #128
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There is a good thing about this that it gives some faith back in humanity

few months ago it seemed so crazy that some hundred French and Belgians and British went and moved to ISISstaat... how can they be so insane to actually want to be there ?

But now thousands of those guys where were there already are going to Europe, clearly proving Europe is a better place
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Old September 4th, 2015, 11:55 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Most of the refugees were already in a Schengen/EU country, in Greece. Why does the other Schengen/EU countries not help Greece to avoid people leaving Greece? If some Schengen/EU countries, e.g. Germany, wants to accommodate them, they could already pick them up in Greece.

What happens? These countries announce that refugees will be accommodated but they must arrive in these countries first. That means, dangerous travel (crossing barbed wire), expensive travel (people smuggling)... They encourage them to do illegal things like crossing borders illegally. That's just stupid and not human at all.......
EU countries should accommodate them if they meet requirements for asylum (most Syrians do, though). If they accommodate also those that doesn't deserve asylum according to EU laws (Moroccans, Turks, Tunisians, Pakistani, Bengali...), it means that EU countries break EU laws!
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 12:00 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
There is a good thing about this that it gives some faith back in humanity

few months ago it seemed so crazy that some hundred French and Belgians and British went and moved to ISISstaat... how can they be so insane to actually want to be there ?

But now thousands of those guys where were there already are going to Europe, clearly proving Europe is a better place
Those who left EU to join ISIS should be declared personae non gratae and never be allowed back in Europe (or maybe allowed, but in high-security prisons). We definitively don't want trained blood-thirsty terrorists among us.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 12:36 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Most of the refugees were already in a Schengen/EU country, in Greece. Why does the other Schengen/EU countries not help Greece to avoid people leaving Greece? If some Schengen/EU countries, e.g. Germany, wants to accommodate them, they could already pick them up in Greece.
Because you have no right to prevent them from leaving the country! Only totalitarian dictatorships like North Korea or DDR prevent people from leaving a country.

It's the job of Macedonia, Serbia and Hungary to prevent any illegal entry of people in their country.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 01:40 AM   #132
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Because you have no right to prevent them from leaving the country! Only totalitarian dictatorships like North Korea or DDR prevent people from leaving a country.

It's the job of Macedonia, Serbia and Hungary to prevent any illegal entry of people in their country.
Since they already broke a law (immigration law), some restrictive measures can be acceptable. Of course we don't prevent law-abiding citizen to leave the country, but illegal immigrants it's another story.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 01:43 AM   #133
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It's the job of Macedonia, Serbia and Hungary to prevent any illegal entry of people in their country.
Yes but they have long frontiers and complex terrain and very little money for expensive police overtime payments. Anyway the real problem is Greece.

The simple solution is to deploy the enormous Turkish Navy (and pay their overtime from EU funds) to guard their OWN coastline.

After all it ain't Europeans who put the refugees into unsafe boats on a beach in Turkey and kill children.

The smugglers who pump migrants into unsafe boats, bound for Schengen, and also profit hugely from it are Turks and Syrians.

This is not to say that Turkey...who took in 2m Syrians more or less...does not require help from Europe in dealing with that influx. A lot MORE help than they got so far.

But this does not exonerate Turkey from shoving seemingly half of Pakistan and Bangladesh into the boats along with the Syrians. It is an equal opportunity pipeline once you get onto a beach in Turkey and with a Greek island a few hundred meters away.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 02:58 AM   #134
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It's the job of Macedonia, Serbia and Hungary to prevent any illegal entry of people in their country.
... and it's the job of the EU to dump all treasonous scumbags of the kind of martin schulz, whose only talent is bitching against countries and governments that make an attempt to contain the tide of border violators' influx by e.g.
- fortifying the Schengen external border, e.g. by a physical barrier (be it only a poultry fence, still better than nothing),
- taking border violators to registration sites, even if it's against the will of Mesdames and Messieurs "Refugees",
- calling on wealthy EU countries to reduce welfare for illegal immigrants,
- reminding on the likely consequences of uncontrolled mass influx of foreign-culture migrants

The degree of human stupidity exposed by schulz and the likes - in their positions involving heavy responsibility for European developments! - is simply appalling.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 11:59 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by marmurr1916 View Post
Grow up.

The EU does what it aims to do pretty well and it does it far better than any similar organisations with similar aims.
If you are dragging the subject, would you mind telling us what actually the EU aims are?

Or, even better, as we are in this thread, what the EU aims are regarding the current immigration crisis?
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Old September 5th, 2015, 01:32 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
indeed

so... what wall will fall now?
Certainly no wall can be put up against a flow of people like that.
Now will fall European Union and Schengen...Next 3 million asylum seekers wait in Lebanon and Turkey to cross in Europe.Interesting why they not going to rich Arab countries near??? Saudi Arabia,Kuwait,Qatar,Oman,Emirates??????
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Old September 5th, 2015, 01:35 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
Because you have no right to prevent them from leaving the country! Only totalitarian dictatorships like North Korea or DDR prevent people from leaving a country.

It's the job of Macedonia, Serbia and Hungary to prevent any illegal entry of people in their country.
What need Macedonia,Serbia,Hungary to doing??To killing that people on their borders??Stupid..That countries need more money for EU,to help asylum seekers in transit!!! ALL WANT GOING TO GERMANY,so it's problem of Germany!!
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Old September 5th, 2015, 03:20 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
Because you have no right to prevent them from leaving the country! Only totalitarian dictatorships like North Korea or DDR prevent people from leaving a country.
They leave the country because they want to go to countries like Germany.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
It's the job of Macedonia, Serbia and Hungary to prevent any illegal entry of people in their country.
Schengen/EU countries could try to avoid people leaving a Schengen/EU country (Greece), crossing these countries to enter Schengen/EU countries again to cross some (e.g. Hungary) and to finally enter a Schengen/EU country like Germany. That's what I wrote before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Most of the refugees were already in a Schengen/EU country, in Greece. Why does the other Schengen/EU countries not help Greece to avoid people leaving Greece? If some Schengen/EU countries, e.g. Germany, wants to accommodate them, they could already pick them up in Greece.
__________________

Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
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Old September 5th, 2015, 05:47 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Since they already broke a law (immigration law), some restrictive measures can be acceptable. Of course we don't prevent law-abiding citizen to leave the country, but illegal immigrants it's another story.
Refugees have a legal right to cross any borders without permission or documents in search of asylum.

Do you think most of the Hungarian refugees who walked across the border into Austria in 1956 had the right papers?

How quickly we forgot that Europeans were once the largest group of refugees in the world.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 05:48 PM   #140
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Now will fall European Union and Schengen...Next 3 million asylum seekers wait in Lebanon and Turkey to cross in Europe.Interesting why they not going to rich Arab countries near??? Saudi Arabia,Kuwait,Qatar,Oman,Emirates??????
Because they`d end up shot at the border fence...
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