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Old September 7th, 2015, 05:51 AM   #161
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Is Germany's demographic problem - i.e. relatively low birthrates and hence relatively few young people to join the workforce - that different from other European countries?
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Old September 7th, 2015, 07:42 AM   #162
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no

just Germany actually recognizes the economic problems that a typical welfare state (pyramid scheme) would have with a aging or declining population.
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Old September 7th, 2015, 08:06 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by pyramidxx View Post
Schengen is already dead!! how is possible that people without passports,crossing over borders without any identity?? Who are they?? They cross over green line,without any control..That system must crash!!
Nonsense. I live 20 kilometres from the border and the last thing I want is a return of border controls. It would be rather inconvenient and bad for the economy when the scores of Slovaks would have to deal with border guards whenever they visit the market in Nowy Targ on Thursday or Saturday, or the hundreds of thousands of Poles preferring to drive around to the nicer side of the High Tatra.

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Originally Posted by panchevo View Post
why was my post removed??

I spoke about why those people want to go only to germany, ignoring dozens of peaceful countries on their way?

and why must I, when I want to travel to the EU with serbian papers, show my passport, proof of funds/return ticket/hotel reservation - but those people cross the border wherever they want and without any documents???
Because those peaceful countries often have major economic problems, and can't really support hundreds of thousands of refugees. Also, these refugees are primarily middle- and upper class Syrians, the poor ones are in camps in Turkey and Lebanon. These people aren't stupid, and realize that a country which has a good economy, a welcoming attitude and the possibility to build a new life, allowing them to maintain their middle-class standard of living is a hell of a better alternative than a country which might be peaceful, but doesn't have the resources to integrate them properly, doesn't have jobs for them, and doesn't really want them to begin with.

The fact that someone is fleeing a war zone doesn't mean that someone wants to abandon their hopes and dreams for a good life for themselves and their children.
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Old September 7th, 2015, 02:47 PM   #164
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Because those peaceful countries often have major economic problems, and can't really support hundreds of thousands of refugees. Also, these refugees are primarily middle- and upper class Syrians, the poor ones are in camps in Turkey and Lebanon. These people aren't stupid, and realize that a country which has a good economy, a welcoming attitude and the possibility to build a new life, allowing them to maintain their middle-class standard of living is a hell of a better alternative than a country which might be peaceful, but doesn't have the resources to integrate them properly, doesn't have jobs for them, and doesn't really want them to begin with.

The fact that someone is fleeing a war zone doesn't mean that someone wants to abandon their hopes and dreams for a good life for themselves and their children.
turkey has major economic problems?
So they want a possibility to build a new life delux style? well, so does the billions of other people from poor countries around the world...

they are not the only ones having hopes and dreams, many people just from europe (not to mention the rest of the world) would also like to settle in germany but you don't see hordes of them entering schengen zone illigegally and arrogantly (maybe you are unaware just how poor wetern-balkans, ukraine and moldova are...)

the problem is that vast amount of those migrants are not really syrians but people from africa, pakistan, bangladesh, etc...
they are all aware that germany gives away "free money" for asylum-seekers,
-just like almost a year ago, thousands of kosovars were also crossing SRB-HU border illegally in order to go to germany to seek asylum and there was no war in kosovo in that time...

*for the record, I am not blaming migrants, they just manifest sane economic thinking, I am blaming germany and eu because their reaction to this chaotic mass abuse of law and regulations is saying to those people that it is ok to break the law - which is contrary to the eu values...
(just couple of months many people trying to cross schengen borders in a normal way through regular bordercrossing were stuck in their cars for hours on blazing heat while migrants were hiking along the way and corssing the border like there isn't any)
meaning, ok everyone if they can do it - so can we! lets join those people on their way to germany - and if the officials say that we are not from a war-zone - lets make one!
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Old September 7th, 2015, 03:17 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by panchevo View Post
turkey has major economic problems?
So they want a possibility to build a new life delux style? well, so does the billions of other people from poor countries around the world...

they are not the only ones having hopes and dreams, many people just from europe (not to mention the rest of the world) would also like to settle in germany but you don't see hordes of them entering schengen zone illigegally and arrogantly (maybe you are unaware just how poor wetern-balkans, ukraine and moldova are...)

the problem is that vast amount of those migrants are not really syrians but people from africa, pakistan, bangladesh, etc...
they all are aware that germany gives away "free money" for asylum-seekers,
-just like almost a year ago, thousands of kosovars were also crossing SRB-HU border illegally in order to go to germany to seek asylum and there was no war in kosovo in that time...

*for the record, I am not blaming migrants, they just manifest sane economic thinking, I am blaming germany and eu because their reaction to this mass abuse of law and regulations is saying to those people that it is ok to break the law - which is contrary to the eu values...
meaning, ok everyone if they can do it - so can we! lets join those people on their way to germany - and if the officials say that we are not from a war-zone - lets make one!
Turkey doesn't have many economic problems, but it suffers from civil unrest, especially in the southeast, and it hasn't been good at keeping ISIS out of their country. Being a foreign Kurd is also not an enviable position to start from when in Turkey, especially being a Syrian Kurd. Most of these people had fairly normal middle-class lifestyles before, and they're now subject to extreme discrimination and lack of pretty much anything.

Germany is being rational. They have too few tax payers and too many people on benefits, and Syria right now has a educated middle class that wants to get the hell out of there, because ISIS isn't the preferred government for middle class, educated, often relatively secular Syrians. Syria supplies, and Germany provides the demand.

The Germans are investing €6 bn. for building houses for these people, and Daimler was already scouting one of the reception centres today for possible new employees. Two days into Germany, and they're already trying to get them to get jobs and pay taxes.

Regarding Ukraine, we let a lot of them into Poland with simplified rules. If you're Ukrainian, basically learning the Polish language to an acceptable level will allow you to work in Poland, and I think we accepted 130,000 or so of them since the conflict there began. I don't see the problem there, most of these people want a better life and why shouldn't they be allowed it?
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Old September 7th, 2015, 03:40 PM   #166
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Regarding Ukraine, we let a lot of them into Poland with simplified rules. If you're Ukrainian, basically learning the Polish language to an acceptable level will allow you to work in Poland, and I think we accepted 130,000 or so of them since the conflict there began.
cheers for this!

but a lot of other people (maybe billions) also want a better life and they are denied!
so what are the options for them, to start hiking towards germany disregarding international borders and laws?

I want to say that there are a lot more poor countries with no future in the world with educated middle class who wants to get the hell out of there because there are also autocratic and totalitarian regimes,
and what is this situation telling them?

millions of people from decaying countries would also give anything to get to germany and work (not abuse their social policy) but they can't even go to germany without having a visa - should they also start hiking?
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Old September 7th, 2015, 05:21 PM   #167
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Sarkozy, past and (he hopes anyway) future President of France weighs in with a 'helpful' suggestion.

http://www.lindependant.fr/2015/09/0...ie,2080279.php

He wants processing centres in North Africa and also in Serbia OR Bulgaria to preprocess and separate migrants from refugees BEFORE they enter Schengen...of course this means he no longer considers Greece to be part of Schengen apart from the general absurdness of the rest of his point.

The centres would have to be in Turkey, surely, Mr Sarkozy!!!!

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Nicolas Sarkozy s'est prononcé samedi à La Baule (Loire-Atlantique) pour des "centres de rétention" en Afrique du Nord, en Serbie ou en Bulgarie, ce qui permettrait d'accorder ou non le statut de réfugié politique aux migrants "avant qu'ils ne traversent la Méditerranée" ou n'entrent dans l'espace Schenge
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Old September 7th, 2015, 09:40 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Is Germany's demographic problem - i.e. relatively low birthrates and hence relatively few young people to join the workforce - that different from other European countries?
Actually, yes. For two reasons:
- Germany has one of the lowest birthrates in Europe (in some years the lowest one, in other years the second or third lowest) and contemporary is one of the healthiest nations so that people live for more than 80 years in average.
- German economy is very strong. The lack of workforce does not only mean that there are less human resources than workplaces, but that there are more workplaces than people. While in other nations having similar demography there is unemployment, because the economy is weak, in Germany the economy is viral and its main issue is the lack of human resources.
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Old September 7th, 2015, 09:54 PM   #169
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M5 motorway to Beograd is blocked.

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Old September 7th, 2015, 09:58 PM   #170
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Why do they walk back to Serbia?
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Old September 7th, 2015, 10:15 PM   #171
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Why do they walk back to Serbia?
They are walking to Budapest but on the wrong side...
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Old September 7th, 2015, 10:18 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Actually, yes. For two reasons:
- Germany has one of the lowest birthrates in Europe (in some years the lowest one, in other years the second or third lowest) and contemporary is one of the healthiest nations so that people live for more than 80 years in average.
- German economy is very strong. The lack of workforce does not only mean that there are less human resources than workplaces, but that there are more workplaces than people. While in other nations having similar demography there is unemployment, because the economy is weak, in Germany the economy is viral and its main issue is the lack of human resources.


I'm never the type to correct the English but I think here you want to say "virile" (healthy, strong)
"viral" is pronounced similar but refers to virus, for example, viral video, or perhaps in relation to ISIL being viral.
German economy though is only infecting people with jobs and wealth
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Old September 7th, 2015, 10:18 PM   #173
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Sorry, yes. But it's the correct side for pedestrians!
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Old September 7th, 2015, 10:27 PM   #174
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Sorry, yes. But it's the correct side for pedestrians!

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Old September 8th, 2015, 12:38 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post


I'm never the type to correct the English but I think here you want to say "virile" (healthy, strong)
"viral" is pronounced similar but refers to virus, for example, viral video, or perhaps in relation to ISIL being viral.
German economy though is only infecting people with jobs and wealth
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Old September 8th, 2015, 08:10 AM   #176
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Romania and Bulgaria should be thanking the EU for delaying their Schengen accession beyond the reasonable deadline. Otherwise, the problems in Serbia and Hungary would've been in Romania and Bulgaria too.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 04:15 PM   #177
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Romania and Bulgaria should be thanking the EU for delaying their Schengen accession beyond the reasonable deadline. Otherwise, the problems in Serbia and Hungary would've been in Romania and Bulgaria too.
The Danube between RO/BG would still be a good reason to go through Serbia.

However, a few minutes ago your PM announced that he wants Schengen for refugees.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 04:26 PM   #178
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Yeah, he wants to trade off Romania accepting a number of refugees in exchange of Schengen (air and maybe ports, but no Schengen for ground borders).
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Old September 8th, 2015, 05:58 PM   #179
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However, a few minutes ago your PM announced that he wants Schengen for refugees.
In Roumania no one cares about our PM, we just wait for his impeachment any day... And I guess no one in Bruxelles cares much about what he has to say.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 08:18 PM   #180
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In Roumania no one cares about our PM, we just wait for his impeachment any day... And I guess no one in Bruxelles cares much about what he has to say.
Says you? I forgot we are all a hive-mind that agrees with you
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