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Old April 2nd, 2016, 12:04 AM   #81
MarshallKnight
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Given the wording in their caption...

Quote:
Google Earth rendering of what a 1,400-foot tower could look like on the site of 666 Fifth Avenue
...I'm pretty sure that's just a mock-up somebody did using a modified version of the Miami tower. I hope so too, because that looks really messy and unpleasant to me.

I'm curious what happens in a case like this. Designs, especially this early in the game, usually wind up being modified many times, so what happens when the original architect dies? Zaha's firm could continue on with this design without her, but I have to think this might throw their existing plans into flux.

Whatever rises here, it's worth taking a moment to mourn the passing of one of architecture's great innovators. Whether or not her work was your cup of tea, it's hard to deny Zaha's impact, particularly when it comes to women in architecture.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 12:23 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
Given the wording in their caption...



...I'm pretty sure that's just a mock-up somebody did using a modified version of the Miami tower. I hope so too, because that looks really messy and unpleasant to me.

I'm curious what happens in a case like this. Designs, especially this early in the game, usually wind up being modified many times, so what happens when the original architect dies? Zaha's firm could continue on with this design without her, but I have to think this might throw their existing plans into flux.

Whatever rises here, it's worth taking a moment to mourn the passing of one of architecture's great innovators. Whether or not her work was your cup of tea, it's hard to deny Zaha's impact, particularly when it comes to women in architecture.
Her design studio in London may remain active for a while as projects underway are seen to completion but Hadid was very exacting about things like pours and finishes. Someone from her studio would have to be well versed in her ways of supervising construction. Aside from that, her designs are many with proposed projects all over the world. And if those clients insist on seeing them get built no matter what, things could stay busy for many years. Her vision was so profound that I can see something like the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation emerge from her studio.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 12:28 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
...I'm pretty sure that's just a mock-up somebody did using a modified version of the Miami tower. I hope so too, because that looks really messy and unpleasant to me.
That's what I thought too, but who knows. It clearly wouldn't be the finished product regardless.
I do hope they do retain her firm, it would be a nice homage to the great architect she was.
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Old April 21st, 2016, 05:11 AM   #84
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Seems like Zaha's firm will still be in charge of designing this tower. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Grieving and Going Forward: How Zaha Hadid’s Firm Plans to Move On
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/ar...to-moveon.html

Quote:
At the Hadid firm, it is falling to Patrik Schumacher, the thoughtful German who worked alongside Ms. Hadid for 28 years and was her senior partner, to pick up the pieces: keep the staff together, the work flow strong and the clients happy. In a recent interview, he said the firm was moving forward with existing projects, including a stadium for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar; a tower in New York; a bridge in Taipei, Taiwan; and the Iraqi Parliament.
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Old March 14th, 2017, 10:47 PM   #85
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http://nypost.com/2017/03/13/kushners-2-9b-condo-deal-with-chinese-insurer-moves-forward/
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Old March 14th, 2017, 11:07 PM   #86
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This is one of the first International Style skyscrapers in NY, built almost 60 years ago, and its facade is actually pretty unique. What a waste



It's completely ridiculous to demolish skyscrapers like this when there are still dilapidated lowrises to build on.
Welcome to a lively global city with too much blood in its veins. It has been going on forever in Manhattan: the day it stopped, the mess would be even greater, because we would also lose the opportunity of getting rid of buildings truly deserving controlled demolition.
Apart from that, there doesn't seem to be that much of a problem with number "666" as there may be with "13"?
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Old March 21st, 2017, 08:56 PM   #87
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The Zaha Hadid design from an article in today's Wall Street Journal

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Old March 21st, 2017, 08:59 PM   #88
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Um... that's pretty spectacular. Look at that podium! Wow.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 09:15 PM   #89
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Can't read the article, it's paywalled
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Old March 21st, 2017, 09:24 PM   #90
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I like how the tower has her characteristic elements all over it, but doesn´t overdo in details to respect the location where it is supposed to rise. I have expected something much more "striking" than this.

I hope this is what will be done.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 09:30 PM   #91
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Wow!!!!!!!!

It looks like they're keeping the tower, recladding it, and adding a lot more floors.



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Old March 21st, 2017, 09:36 PM   #92
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I wonder if they cut the towers width in order to create a square shaped footprint for the tower portion.

A rendering with the tower in skyline context would be nice.

We had the artcile about financing being secured for this, we now have a render. It smells like this one is now getting serious momentum.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 09:39 PM   #93
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Wow!!!!!!!!

It looks like they're keeping the tower, recladding it, and adding a lot more floors.

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Old March 21st, 2017, 09:54 PM   #94
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^Nice, too bad we'll lose that cool textured cladding though, it's really unique.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 10:07 PM   #95
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Gotta see more details on that design and how it relates the the skyline.
Makes sense that they are moving ahead with new tower, the $7.5 billion projection didn't make a whole lotta sense to me if they were just gonna develop the top floors into condos and keep the tower as is. I still think it might not be realistic in the current market, but by 2025, maybe.

For those who don't have access to the article...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/jared-k...eal-1490111514
Quote:
More than two years ago, Charles Kushner had a vision to convert his family’s trophy Manhattan office and retail skyscraper from a barely break-even property into a soaring 1,400-foot mixed-use skyscraper with retail, a hotel and some of the most expensive condominiums in the city.

Then Donald Trump sought—and won—the presidency, and the project got more complicated.

Mr. Kushner’s son Jared is Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and a top White House adviser, which has ethics experts warning of conflicts of interest as Kushner Cos. talks to investors about its plan for the $7.5 billion project at 666 Fifth Ave.


Designed by Pritzker Prize-winning architect Zaha Hadid before she died last year, the tower, which would be renamed 660 Fifth Ave., would join other new slender skyscrapers redefining Manhattan’s skyline. The project would entail stripping the 60-year-old building to its steel structure and adding about 40 floors. It could take until 2025 to complete.

Extensive negotiations are under way between Kushner Cos., its partners on the building, potential investors, lenders and tenants who would have to move for the project to happen, according to people close to the discussions. New details of the company’s plans were provided to The Wall Street Journal by some of these people and confirmed by a Kushner spokesman.

Anbang Insurance Group, a big Chinese insurer with strong political and family connections to the government in Beijing, is in advanced talks to provide as much as half of the $2.5 billion in equity for the planned redevelopment, according to people close to the negotiations. But worries over a conflict of interest, given Jared Kushner’s role in the White House, could torpedo Anbang’s participation.

A rendering of what would be the new skyscraper to replace the building at 666 Fifth Ave.
A rendering of what would be the new skyscraper to replace the building at 666 Fifth

After reports of the talks surfaced last week, Anbang said in statement that they weren’t correct. The company, which made headlines in 2015 when it purchased the Waldorf Astoria hotel in Manhattan for $1.95 billion, might decide whether or not to stay or go as early as this week, people familiar with the matter said.

“Contrary to recent reports, Anbang has no investment in 666 Fifth Avenue,” said an Anbang spokesman in an email. “Any suggestion that Anbang has signed a contract or made any kind of financial commitment is inaccurate.”

A collapse of the Anbang talks—which began last July before it was clear Mr. Trump would win the Republican nomination—wouldn’t necessarily doom the elder Mr. Kushner’s dream. Mr. Kushner believes he could raise the necessary equity from investors other than Anbang, according to people involved with negotiations.

“Kushner Cos. is in advanced, ongoing discussions around 666 Fifth Avenue,” a company spokesman said.

Mr. Trump and Jared Kushner have taken steps to insulate themselves from potential conflicts of interest. For example, Mr. Kushner has sold his personal stake in 666 Fifth Ave. and dozens of other properties to a trust controlled by other family members.

But some ethics experts have said these measures have fallen short. Meanwhile, others note that a move by Anbang to exit the talks in New York would highlight how concerns over potential conflict can imperil businesses connected to Mr. Trump and his top aides.

Mr. Kushner, who has a hand in U.S. foreign policy, might be overly influenced by Anbang if the company helps his family turn a so-so deal into a bonanza, critics suggest. A White House spokeswoman didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Kushner Cos. is trying to change the fortunes of a property that looked at one point like a disastrous investment. The company purchased it for $1.8 billion in 2007, just before the real-estate crash. By 2011, the company was struggling to make mortgage payments, raising the possibility of a default.

More than two years ago, Charles Kushner had a vision to convert his family’s trophy Manhattan office and retail skyscraper from a barely break-even property into a soaring 1,400-foot mixed-use skyscraper with retail, a hotel and some of the most expensive condominiums in the city.

Then Donald Trump sought—and won—the presidency, and the project got more complicated.

Mr. Kushner’s son Jared is Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and a top White House adviser, which has ethics experts warning of conflicts of interest as Kushner Cos. talks to investors about its plan for the $7.5 billion project at 666 Fifth Ave.


Designed by Pritzker Prize-winning architect Zaha Hadid before she died last year, the tower, which would be renamed 660 Fifth Ave., would join other new slender skyscrapers redefining Manhattan’s skyline. The project would entail stripping the 60-year-old building to its steel structure and adding about 40 floors. It could take until 2025 to complete.

Extensive negotiations are under way between Kushner Cos., its partners on the building, potential investors, lenders and tenants who would have to move for the project to happen, according to people close to the discussions. New details of the company’s plans were provided to The Wall Street Journal by some of these people and confirmed by a Kushner spokesman.

Anbang Insurance Group, a big Chinese insurer with strong political and family connections to the government in Beijing, is in advanced talks to provide as much as half of the $2.5 billion in equity for the planned redevelopment, according to people close to the negotiations. But worries over a conflict of interest, given Jared Kushner’s role in the White House, could torpedo Anbang’s participation.

After reports of the talks surfaced last week, Anbang said in statement that they weren’t correct. The company, which made headlines in 2015 when it purchased the Waldorf Astoria hotel in Manhattan for $1.95 billion, might decide whether or not to stay or go as early as this week, people familiar with the matter said.

“Contrary to recent reports, Anbang has no investment in 666 Fifth Avenue,” said an Anbang spokesman in an email. “Any suggestion that Anbang has signed a contract or made any kind of financial commitment is inaccurate.”

A collapse of the Anbang talks—which began last July before it was clear Mr. Trump would win the Republican nomination—wouldn’t necessarily doom the elder Mr. Kushner’s dream. Mr. Kushner believes he could raise the necessary equity from investors other than Anbang, according to people involved with negotiations.

“Kushner Cos. is in advanced, ongoing discussions around 666 Fifth Avenue,” a company spokesman said.

Mr. Trump and Jared Kushner have taken steps to insulate themselves from potential conflicts of interest. For example, Mr. Kushner has sold his personal stake in 666 Fifth Ave. and dozens of other properties to a trust controlled by other family members.

But some ethics experts have said these measures have fallen short. Meanwhile, others note that a move by Anbang to exit the talks in New York would highlight how concerns over potential conflict can imperil businesses connected to Mr. Trump and his top aides.

Mr. Kushner, who has a hand in U.S. foreign policy, might be overly influenced by Anbang if the company helps his family turn a so-so deal into a bonanza, critics suggest. A White House spokeswoman didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Kushner Cos. is trying to change the fortunes of a property that looked at one point like a disastrous investment. The company purchased it for $1.8 billion in 2007, just before the real-estate crash. By 2011, the company was struggling to make mortgage payments, raising the possibility of a default.

As Charles Kushner has explained his vision, the value of 666 Fifth Ave., between 52nd and 53rd streets, was in “the dirt” and not the actual building, according to people familiar with his thinking. By greatly increasing its height and quadrupling its retail space, Kushner Cos. believes it can turn the property into a signature development that would be worth as much as $12 billion, according to people familiar with the plans.

Preserving only a portion of the existing inner steel also would enable Kushner Cos. to build 1.45 million square feet “as of right,” meaning it wouldn’t need extensive city approvals, according to people familiar with the plans. The first nine floors of the new tower would include retail, entertainment and dining space. The building also would include an 11-story hotel and 464,000 square feet of residential space.

Kushner Cos. believes the residential portion of the project would succeed at roughly $6,000 a square foot, which would place it near the top of the current market for ultraluxury condos. The company is confident the condos would sell at that price or higher because they wouldn’t be hitting the market until more than seven years from now, said people familiar with the plans.

Among the challenges facing Kushner Cos.: It also must cut a deal to buy out Vornado Realty Trust Inc., a real estate investment trust that is its partner on 666 Fifth Ave.’s office space and the owner of most of the property’s retail space. Those talks are under way, people said. A Vornado spokesman declined to comment.

Charles Kushner also would have to buy out current tenants in the building, who would have to move before demolition could start. And he would have to refinance the existing $1.15 billion of debt on the building.

If all goes well, Mr. Kushner hopes to close all the pieces of the deal sometime in the second half of this year, according to people familiar with the plans and negotiations. Demolition would likely start in late 2019 and construction in mid-2021, depending partly on how long it takes to vacate the property, the people said.

Some of the financial benefits to Kushner Cos. could come this year. But the family would reinvest about $500 million of what would be its profit from the new equity investment and the recapitalization of its debt, people said. The amount it would be able to put in its pocket would be in the hundreds of millions of dollars, but that is still being negotiated, the people said.

The bigger benefit would come to the family if the new tower is built and hits the hoped-for $12 billion value. Under the plan, Kushner Cos. would have a 20% stake in that, the people said.

Negotiations with Anbang began after the Chinese company reached out to Jared Kushner, according to people familiar with the negotiations. Since then Mr. Wu has met in New York with Charles Kushner multiple times, according to the people.


At the time, Anbang was particularly interested in the project because it had lost out to competitors on other Manhattan properties, according to a person familiar with the missed deals.

“We’ve done a few deals, but we’ve lost many more,” Theo Cheng, Anbang’s head of real estate, said during a panel discussion at an industry conference in France. Before the panel, Mr. Cheng declined to comment on 666 Fifth Ave.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 11:21 PM   #96
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I'm astonished at how long it too me to orient myself with that render (facing west from basically Madison). Obviously there will be no plaza to the East of the building as depicted here, as there's a whole block of towers in the way.

Anyway, this is certainly a spectacular design. Very different for New York, but not so radically out there that I can't see it fitting in. When viewed head on, it reminds me of a kitchen whisk.

I really wish we had an angle showing the North/South profile, because the actual shape of the tower isn't totally clear. Is the North/South side going to be longer than the East/West side like the current building...



...or is the whole thing getting slimmed down to a "whisk-like" cylinder on top of the large base? Or will the extant office tower essentially keep its current proportions, with the cylindrical residential component stacked on top on the 5th Avenue end of the building?
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 05:47 AM   #97
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Please build that !
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 06:11 AM   #98
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Wow. Just wow!
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 08:59 AM   #99
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high resolution version of the render.

Copyright by: https://twitter.com/morninggloria
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 10:19 AM   #100
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It is far too soon to reasonably judge this proposal. The render depicts one side out of four. This one render shows an interesting looking design, but until more renders are released it would be a terrible folly to make any sort of definitive judgement of this proposed design...
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