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Old March 22nd, 2017, 01:17 PM   #101
Twopsy
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The price tag of $7.5 billion seems far out of proportion. That's five times the extimated costs of Burj Khalifa. I know they do not have cheap workers from Pakistan in the US like in the UAE, but it is still expensive compared to other projects in New York.

Maybe $7.5 billion really include demolishing the neighbouring block like in the rendering and buy all of its air rights to make the tower even bigger. Only in New York it could make sense financially to demolish a whole block just for its air rights, as air rights could be more valuable than those buildings.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 02:23 PM   #102
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NEW YORK | 666 5th Avenue | 427m | 1400ft | ? fl | Pro

...consider that this will include one of the largest and (one would expect) most luxurious shopping malls in Manhattan, smack dab on its most iconic high end shopping strip... plus a large office component in an area starved for modern Class A space... plus 40 floors of top end luxury condos, rising well above any of its neighbors for spectacular city and presumably even park views.

A building with any one of those components would be worth a couple billion. This will have all three.

Edit: Misspoke about $7.5bn being the potential valuation instead of the construction cost. The above points are still true and of note with regard to the overall value of the tower (which Twopsy points out Kushner is hoping will reach as much as $12bn)
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 02:35 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
It's not $7.5bn in costs, but rather the potential valuation of the building once completed.

Even then it seems a little high, but consider that this will include one of the largest and (one would expect) most luxurious shopping malls in Manhattan, smack dab on its most iconic high end shopping strip... plus a large office component in an area starved for modern Class A space... plus 40 floors of top end luxury condos, rising well above any of its neighbors for spectacular city and presumably even park views.

A building with any one of those components would be worth a couple billion. This will have all three.
No, the article quotes a "$7.5 billion project". That means that it will cost that much.

Further down in the article you can read how much they hope it will be worth:

Quote:
The bigger benefit would come to the family if the new tower is built and hits the hoped-for $12 billion value.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 03:18 PM   #104
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The predicted condo sell out at $6k per square foot is conservative. It's a lot less than the average price per square foot achieved at 432 Park.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 04:36 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twopsy View Post
No, the article quotes a "$7.5 billion project". That means that it will cost that much.



Further down in the article you can read how much they hope it will be worth:

Oh crap, yeah there it is, my bad.

I agree, that's a hard number to wrap my mind around.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 04:49 PM   #106
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Huffington Post takes a comical approach to the story:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...0b22b0d181a9b?

"Kushner Family Wants To Erect A Skyscraper That Looks Just Like A Pen**
'The building will be named ‘Overcompensating,’ one comedian quips.

The company owned by the family of Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior White House advisor, has unveiled plans for a makeover of a New York City building.

The Wall Street Journal said Tuesday that Kushner’s role in the White House is complicating the process due to the potential for conflicts of interest, even though he has sold his stake in this and other family owned properties.

But the possible conflicts aren’t getting nearly as much attention as the building’s design, which Twitter users say is unmistakably phallic."

(followed by people's twitter comments about the building's design)
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 05:13 PM   #107
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Why do people always say that cylindrical buildings look phallic? It is much too thin for that.

Look what the Americans built in Berlin during the cold war:


(credit: https://www.instagram.com/skyscraperfan)

That buildings only looks phallic from this perspective, but 660 Fifth Avenue does not look phallic at all.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 09:20 PM   #108
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The $7.5 Billion figure is actually what the project would be worth. And $12 Billion what the Kushners hope it will be worth in the end.
I find it hard to justify either valuation at this time , especially the latter.
No way construction cost would amount to $7.5 Billion for that tower, even in NYC.

From the Real Deal last week...

https://therealdeal.com/2017/03/20/p...-tower-is-one/
Quote:
If that’s the philosophy they applied to 666 Fifth Avenue, then I am bamboozled by why they’d want to invest at the numbers discussed. According to Bloomberg’s story last Monday, Anbang agreed to cough up $400 million to Kushner Companies, allowing it to take a big chunk of their money off the table while still maintaining a 20 percent stake in the tower. Further, it agreed to take on the burden of redeveloping the property, adding luxury condos and revamping the retail in an undertaking that would seek a construction loan of $4 billion. No typo there.

We tried to wrap our heads around that number. A $4 billion construction loan would be the largest of its kind by a huge margin.

The property is estimated on potential investor documents to be worth $7.2 billion post-redevelopment – that’s more than twice the valuation of the GM Building, America’s most valuable office tower, and more than twice the projected sellout of 220 CPS. To make those numbers a reality, one developer in the know told me that Kushner and Anbang would have to underwrite the condos at an average of up to $9,000 per square foot.

If this is a political gambit for Wu — or if he is acting as a proxy for the Chinese government — all bets are off. (It’s worth noting that the Chinese government has in no uncertain terms told insurers to pull back on overseas investments.) He is looking to take Anbang public in Hong Kong and eventually take a crack at the U.S. capital markets, and it’s possible he feels a deal on 666 would help him rack up clout with the Trump administration – clout he could parlay into power back home. But as a pure-play real estate deal, the numbers are ludicrous.

Could it be that having news of an impending deal out there but with some degree of uncertainty – Anbang has denied any investment – serves as a call to action for other investors to come to Kushner Companies with offers at more realistic terms? I can’t figure this one out.
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Old March 27th, 2017, 07:36 PM   #109
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http://archidose.blogspot.com/2017/03/wheres-nouvel.html?m=1
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Old March 27th, 2017, 07:38 PM   #110
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http://archidose.blogspot.com/2017/0...es-nouvel.html

Where's Nouvel?


Quote:
Today a rendering of Zaha Hadid Architects' design for the redesign/extension of Kushner Companies' 666 Fifth Avenue in Midtown Manhattan has been making its rounds in many of the usual places. The 1,400-foot-tall tower, if built, would sit prominently on Fifth Avenue between 52nd and 53rd Streets, about a half-block from the Museum of Modern Art.

Which made me wonder: Where is Jean Nouvel's 53W53 in the rendering? Now under construction, the 1,050-foot-tall skyscraper will tower over Cesar Pelli's Museum Tower, which is visible to the right of ZHA's tower. So in the interest of seeing how these two supertalls designed by celebrity architects would interact, I Photoshopped a side elevation of Nouvel's tower into ZHA's rendering:

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Old March 28th, 2017, 02:35 AM   #111
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Wow that view will be wonderful with Verre in the background.
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Old March 28th, 2017, 09:58 AM   #112
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If this tower gets build and I think it will, then the reasoning for Verres height cut makes even less sense than it already does.

I also wonder how can they add 40 floors ontop of an already existing foundation? It implies that the currently existing foundation was done to support more than the tower that just sits on it.
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Old March 28th, 2017, 02:50 PM   #113
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I speculate that the addition will be another pencil tower and that it does not extend nearly as far west as the current tower does.

As far as Verre, that required city approval to transfer air rights from noncontiguous parcels. This must be as of right because the city would not approve such a tall tower.
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Old March 28th, 2017, 06:06 PM   #114
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Tower Verre was proposed too early. We're lucky it's even being built at all, given how many projects the economic crisis killed.
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Old March 29th, 2017, 12:09 AM   #115
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Looks like a giant tampon...
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Old March 29th, 2017, 12:26 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germantower View Post
If this tower gets build and I think it will, then the reasoning for Verres height cut makes even less sense than it already does.

I also wonder how can they add 40 floors ontop of an already existing foundation? It implies that the currently existing foundation was done to support more than the tower that just sits on it.
The new tower will be taller, but not much heavier. So they just have to make sure that the weight of the new tower will be balanced on the whole existing foundation and not just at the center below the new slim tower.
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Old March 29th, 2017, 09:44 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesSwann View Post
I speculate that the addition will be another pencil tower and that it does not extend nearly as far west as the current tower does.

As far as Verre, that required city approval to transfer air rights from noncontiguous parcels. This must be as of right because the city would not approve such a tall tower.
But the reasoning for Verres heigh cut was "we donīt want something THAT tall to be SO CLOSE to the Empire State Building". IIRC 15 Penn Plaza was still a hot thing back then. So it even makes less and less sense at all.
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Old March 29th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #118
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Not surprisingly, Anbang backed out due to the political fall out with Trump's son-in-law, who, nonetheless, is seeking other partners.
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Old March 29th, 2017, 10:43 PM   #119
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Not surprising indeed.
That said, after seeing this rendering, I hope the Kushners get back down to earth and get this project moving.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/2...ww.google.com/


A pure beauty. I approve!!
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Old March 29th, 2017, 11:02 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
NY Post has additional details about the planned tower:

Sitting on the full blockfront between West 52nd and 53rd streets, Kushner will in five to seven years offer residences with unimpeded views.

Pricing would be around $6,000 per square foot, comparable to the mid-top of the current market.

A 94-key, seven-star hotel with banquet rooms would sit above a nine-level retail podium designed for small shops and topped by a food hall.

http://nypost.com/2017/03/28/chinese...anies-project/

To me, the biggest takeaway is the planned nine levels of retail. Wow!

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/2...ww.google.com/

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
More from that NY Times article...

Quote:
“Fifth Avenue is synonymous with luxury and opulence of the highest standards in the world,” Mr. Kushner wrote in a brochure for the project. “This design will transform Fifth Avenue in a city that is continuously reinventing itself.”

.....Mr. Kushner and his father Charles began showing potential investors a “white book,” which laid out their vision for tearing down the blocky building to make way for the much taller, glassier skyscraper designed by Ms. Hadid.

The book portrayed a tower made up of a 9-story retail base, an 8-story, 150-room hotel, 55 stories of ultra-luxury condominiums, topped by a sky deck.

The Kushners also renamed the tower 660 Fifth, casting aside the “666” reference that some people may connect with the number for Satan in the Bible’s Book of Revelations.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/2...ww.google.com/
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