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Old December 18th, 2015, 09:26 PM   #1
Seoul_Korea
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BREMEN | CityGate Bremen | U/C

CityGate Bremen Bahnhofsvorstadt, Innerstadt, Bremen



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Old December 18th, 2015, 11:24 PM   #2
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Thank god, this city needs all the help it can get, because it's the most pathetic city in Europe as it stands
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Old December 19th, 2015, 04:55 AM   #3
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Why is it the most pathetic one? Granted, the square in front of the train station doesn't look great, also thanks to this elevated road cutting through it. But once you get into the old town, it is actually very nice. Also, people there seem to be more open to a bit of small talk with strangers than in Hamburg.
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Old December 21st, 2015, 06:25 AM   #4
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I'd agree with that, but I think the bombings in WWII destroyed not only the buildings, but the character of this town. It's at best a generic european town. Sad for Germany, I lived in Germany for six years and I love German cities. But most of the larger ones, Bremen as the prime example, are quite dreery and a bit dull. (Hamburg, Nurnberg, and Bonn are great examples of the opposite) I do agree on the part of the character of locals though.
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 10:58 PM   #5
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Some additional renders of this project at Bremen Hauptbahnhof:









Sources: Max Dudler, Dietrich Architekten und Ing
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 01:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rose1 View Post
Thank god, this city needs all the help it can get, because it's the most pathetic city in Europe as it stands
Now this can only come from someone who knows Bremen superficially at most, and I am not even talking about the old town. Of course, the area around the central station is the quintessential/generic postwar German neighbourhood with very limited charm but I fail to see why the Bahnhofsvorstadt would be anything that stands out in a negative sense - you will find something similar in almost every German city of comparable size - which of course doesn't make it better.

Have you been to Bremen's residential areas which are unique to Germany and which find its equivalents in the Netherlands and Great Britain? I don't think so.

Bremen is indeed very distinct from any other major German city because when the others started to build 3 to 5 storeyed "Mietshäuser" that still dominate large parts of cities like Berlin, Leipzig or Hamburg in the boom times of the years 1860 to 1910 ("Gründerzeit"), Bremen decided to allow only two-storeyed terraced houses, that are called "Bremer Haus" in German, cf. this https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremer_Haus article about the phenomenon, although it is only available in German.

These houses were built in a very simple style, often with only one storey for the dock workers in the western parts of town like these two:



In the middle class neighbourhoods they look like this:



or this (people actually use these verandas/conservatories a lot, drinking a cup of coffee, chatting with the neighbours - a great example of how architecture influences quality of life):



These examples are from yet another part of town, Findorff:



These houses are situated in Peterswerder (area around the Weserstadion - Hamburger Straße):







This is the main drag of the Ostertorviertel, a very nice albeit heavily gentrified neighbourhood east of the old town with lots of bars, restaurants, shops, and, yes, Bremen Houses:



like these in Bleicherstraße:



or these in the Roonstraße:



The upmarket neighbourhoods of Bremen look like this:



Schwachhausen - very opulent Bremen houses can be found here:



Another typical Schwachhausen British-style residential street:



Well, I am in the process of preparing a new "urban showcase" thread for Bremen as I see it's utterly necessary

You can say a lot about Bremen, yes, it's a bit run down, yes, its way of dealing with the destruction of WW2 was not very far-sighted, yes, Bremen -especially if explored by car- features many of the downsides of postwar urban planning. Rest assured that I am in no way romantizing about a city that is not my home town, just a place I happen to live in.

But to say that Bremen is at best a generic european town seems very far-fetched especially in the light of the fact that it features an absolutely unique way of building the typical German Gründerzeit town extensions in a British or Dutch manner and combining this with a very "undeutsch" and laid back style of living.

During spring, summer and autumn, people like to sit in front of their houses, on the stairs you can see in the pictures above or in a conservatory, out in the open public, drinking a tea, having a chat with neighbours and passersby - that is something virtually unheard of in most other parts of Germany, where people like to hide in their gardens, protected by high hedges and fences.
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 02:40 AM   #7
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I do want to apologize, because I meant most pathetic city in Germany, certainly not Europe as a whole, that was just me writing in a rush. But I still concur with my point of view. Realizing I'm writing from a visitor's perspective. Certainly I can find beautiful places in Baltimore too outside the core, but to a visitor it's a rundown city. Same with Bremen. Bremen was very poorly rebuilt, and to any visitor there's not really much value in going to see residential areas that in many ways resemble any other German city outside the core.

I agree these houses houses in particular are a little different though, I'll read the wilki link. They in many ways resemble German takes on American row houses, or perhaps the ones here are an American take on German houses? haha. Either way, clearly im speaking about Centrum and not these residential areas. I think those are two very disparate subjects, and the fact is the subject of this thread is in regards to a city center project. And the city center sucks. But I do believe it can get better, if the city finds a way to reconnect itself with old and contemporary german architectural principles, and not result to maintaining the ugly brutalist architecture that exists today. I lived in Germany 6 years, and I'm very passionate about the country and its cities because I believe it's an amazing country. And with the great political shifts and demographic shifts occuring today, I'd just really like to see Germany distance itself from becoming a country of generic "international cities," and try to become a country of beautiful, unique true "German" cities.
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Last edited by royal rose1; December 23rd, 2015 at 02:47 AM.
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 11:51 AM   #8
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Where exactly did you live? I partly agree with you Rose. Bremen definitely needs to reconstruct its old town furtherly.

Though it shouldn't be forgotten, that the existing centre offers some very unique parts and ensembles you won't find in any other European city:

The magnificent Expressionist-resembling-Brick-Gothic Böttcherstrasse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6ttcherstra%C3%9Fe

The Schnoor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnoor

The (partly UNESCO) market square: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremer_Marktplatz

Then there also are the lovely Wallanlagen including the Mill.

The Schlachte waterfront of the old town also is quite a nice and lively one:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...jpg?uselang=de


But yeah, scattered across the old town there are various architectural abominations that need to be replaced with more sensible architecture or reconstructions.

Imho though, the mentioned lifestyle/atmosphere of the city and its various marvellous quarters outside the old town make up a little for that, like the Viertel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viertel_%28Bremen%29
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Old December 23rd, 2015, 12:38 PM   #9
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As Erbse pointed out, the city centre offers way too much interesting architecture including the UNESCO world heritage market place, the Schnoor, the unique brick expressionist Böttcherstrasse and the remodeled river front shown above to be able to call Bremen "the most pathetic German city".

Now, this discussion does probably not belong in this thread but one seriously has to ask whether you have ever been to Hannover, Kiel, the Ruhr cities, Frankfurt, Stuttgart or Cologne or -God forgive me- large areas of central Berlin to be able to call Bremen's city centre pathetic.

Again, I do not say that all is good and I agree that Bremen's old centre and its surroundings such as the Bahnhofsvorstadt are partially in dire need of some "Stadtreparatur" including reconstructions and the demolition of some of the worst postwar eyesores, but again: I fail to see why Bremen would be in any way unique in this matter or what exactly makes Bremen stand out so clearly for you to come to this rather harsh and quite exclusive conclusion.

On the contrary, Bremen's pre-war character can still be experienced quite well in many places which by the way explains the ever growing tourism to Bremen with new hotels being built all over the place and tourist buses clogging the city streets. I would even go so far as to say that of the larger former West German cities, Bremen has retained its character better than most comparably sized cities.

Which doesn't make the bad architecture that predominates the area around the Hauptbahnhof and western half of the former medieval city centre one bit better, mind you. I will take this discussion as a motivator to show you some of the good and the bad of Bremen in a showcase thread, an idea that has taken shape in my mind anyway during the last months.

Btw.: I quite like the City Gate, it will be a tremendous improvement to this hitherto quite neglected area which sadly is the first that many visitors see of Bremen when they leave the station, maybe and even rightfully making them jump to conclusions such as yours
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Old February 23rd, 2016, 12:45 PM   #10
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Current status of the site:

Quote:
Originally Posted by otto4 View Post
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From the Bremen thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post130904175
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Old February 24th, 2016, 09:53 PM   #11
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I kind of enjoyed walking out of the train station onto that wide open space, it's going to be a lot more claustrophobic in the future. It'll block the view of some rather hideous buildings, though. Star Inn, Jacobs, etc are all awful.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 10:36 PM   #12
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After problems with instable ground around the building site that even affected Bremen´s central tramway/street car hub, a period of about 6 months with a complete stop of all activities set in. Now, after some legal trouble with the main contractor, work on the site has been resumed. Although hardly imaginable at this stage, the investor still hopes for an opening in late 2018, especially if the coming winter doesn´t have a period of prolonged frost.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 01:02 AM   #13
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Its very similar to the situation in my hometown Køge in Denmark where a large bus terminal in front of the station was demolished to make way for new buildings.

During the construction of the underground parking they destroyed the walls of a nearby building, so the project stopped for almost 6 months before all the legal actionspil was taken.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 01:18 AM   #14
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Maybe they should just scrap the current project - and design something more classical, elegant and Bremen-style (Schnoor-like) then
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Old November 25th, 2016, 01:52 AM   #15
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How can "elegant" and "Bremen-style" be mentioned in the same breath? Disregarding that the entire city is basically a sea of commieblocks, even the city center is overgrown with dodgy modern developments like a cancer.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 08:17 PM   #16
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Nothing of that is 'Bremen-style' as I render it though, but mostly just -indeed dodgy- international modernism. Nothing regionally specific.

While the mightily elegant Bremer Haus is Bremen-style.
The boheme Brick expressionism of the Schnoor is Bremen-style.
The proud Brick Gothic and Renaissance of Hanseatic times is Bremen-style.

Bremen might have forgot about what its charme is or was made of, but that doesn't mean it can't re-discover it.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 04:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Nothing of that is 'Bremen-style' as I render it though, but mostly just -indeed dodgy- international modernism. Nothing regionally specific.
unfortunetly i Agree. i visited Bremen couple of times and to be honest it was slightly disapointing. Almost the whole Old town looked like mid 70's but i remember that i liked the area on the other side of the stadium with pre war houses and that was great.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 01:58 PM   #18
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THis is a decent design for a eral estate park, but probably not the best for a city centre because it is clinical. A more classic design would be appropriate IMO.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 09:32 AM   #19
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Are there being constructured coworking areas or business centers in Bremen?
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Old December 6th, 2016, 09:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Nothing of that is 'Bremen-style' as I render it though, but mostly just -indeed dodgy- international modernism. Nothing regionally specific.

While the mightily elegant Bremer Haus is Bremen-style.
The boheme Brick expressionism of the Schnoor is Bremen-style.
The proud Brick Gothic and Renaissance of Hanseatic times is Bremen-style.

Bremen might have forgot about what its charme is or was made of, but that doesn't mean it can't re-discover it.
True, though it doesn't need to focus entirely on that, either. Some modern highrises like the one built a few years ago (see it every time taking the train to Bremen, dunno the name*) and the area surrounding it would be a huge improvement over the many 70s style commieblock atrocities.

Though some of the latter could potentially be improved with a recladding, too - that Jacobs building for example. The only old highrises I like are those around the Beck's brewery/near the Neustadt train station, one I think belongs to Beck's and the other I think is a bank or insurance.

*edit - Weser Tower
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