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Old March 5th, 2016, 03:27 AM   #41
skyridgeline
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Quote:
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Where do you see the wheels? The levitation isn't at a meter above the tracks, it's actually very close to the tracks. But there is air between the tracks and the trains magnets both above and below the track.
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
I don't see any wheels, but when the trains pass, you do hear some kind of metal on metal contact, so perhaps there are guide rails on the side to keep it in place?

It is much less quiet than expected from maglevs.
It looks like the train is in contact with the power rails on the side of the girders. The train only uses outboard power source I think.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 04:56 AM   #42
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It looks like the train is in contact with the power rails on the side of the girders. The train only uses outboard power source I think.
That's a shame. They could have adopted electro-magnetic induction power transfer which would have made it completely contact-less.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 04:58 AM   #43
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So it's not a Maglev after all?
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Old March 5th, 2016, 05:06 AM   #44
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So it's not a Maglev after all?
It's a maglev but it's tethered.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 12:34 PM   #45
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Wtf... so it's maglev with third rail? Why?!
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Old March 5th, 2016, 06:37 PM   #46
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Maglev should have no contact with the rails at the operation speeds. The only electricity Maglev should receive should be via induction.

I am not sure what they were doing in the video, but is most certainly is not a maglev operation in that video.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:10 PM   #47
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This train is the first homegrown maglev in China. They chose it for certain technical reasons -- if I'm not mistaken, there were gradient constraints that would not have been possible with a traditional electrified railway. They're merely paving the way for future maglev tracks. But they probably learned to be cautious following the disappointing financial impact of the Shanghai maglev.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:12 PM   #48
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Maglev should have no contact with the rails at the operation speeds. The only electricity Maglev should receive should be via induction.

I am not sure what they were doing in the video, but is most certainly is not a maglev operation in that video.
Hahhaa, is there a written law for what maglev is? Also how do you know it is not induction? I cannot tell it from this video. Metal-on-metal sound can be because of various things.

In any case, that is a *lovely* video, thanks for sharing.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 07:23 PM   #49
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I watched video again, and, I guess the arrow shows the one of the power connections? Maybe that is the source for the metal-on-metal noise.

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Old March 5th, 2016, 08:58 PM   #50
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Hahhaa, is there a written law for what maglev is? Also how do you know it is not induction? I cannot tell it from this video. Metal-on-metal sound can be because of various things.

In any case, that is a *lovely* video, thanks for sharing.
I did not say that I don't consider the video or the news nice. I indeed think it is interesting enough.

I can understand that it might show interesting to operate low speed contact electricity fed trains levitating on a magnetic pillow, or not levitating, but propelled by magnetic propulsion. I don't know what exactly this train demonstrates, thus it is hard to evaluate.

But

But I don't believe that it makes much sense to have a magnetic propulsion or levitation, while having to feed the electricity through a contact feed. It might show maybe a bit more efficient at the low speeds, which I doubt, but it completely defies the idea of no friction principle, which is pivotal for the magnetic levitation trains, at high speeds.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 07:51 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZoolooMaster View Post
This train is the first homegrown maglev in China. They chose it for certain technical reasons -- if I'm not mistaken, there were gradient constraints that would not have been possible with a traditional electrified railway. They're merely paving the way for future maglev tracks. But they probably learned to be cautious following the disappointing financial impact of the Shanghai maglev.
Real Maglev costs a lot to build and and a lot to maintain. The Shanghai track was merely a showcase. As I read, the principal idea in the early 2000s was to network the major Chinese metropolises with Maglev. However, once the astronomical numbers were on the table, they opted for the classic HSR. There were also Ideas to connect SH and Hangzhou with the magnet. Even the present HSR system creates huge losses due to it's massively subsidized ticket pricing.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 10:13 AM   #52
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Real Maglev costs a lot to build and and a lot to maintain.
I agree on the construction cost somewhat but maintenance?
No definitely not since Maglevs are contact-less meaning no wear and tear to the tracks or cars. With conventional wheel on track HSR, the wheels grind and mars the tracks to gain traction to accelerate/decelerate.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 02:25 PM   #53
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I agree on the construction cost somewhat but maintenance?
No definitely not since Maglevs are contact-less meaning no wear and tear to the tracks or cars. With conventional wheel on track HSR, the wheels grind and mars the tracks to gain traction to accelerate/decelerate.
That's true, though.... I don't have the numbers, but I reckon that the biggest part of the costs is the costs of workforce that has to check the tracks and the units. If you operate a maglev train, you will probably have to employ the same workforce doing the checking. Above that, the maglev trains in fact need some wheels or another contact landing systems. It doesn't levitate all the time. Those need to be checked as well.

And when there's a reparation needed, you can count on much higher costs.

I think that the real breakthrough of maglev technology would come if we would be able to produce superconductors operating at normal temperatures. But that would completely change the transportation system anyway. And whether that is possible at all is yet another question.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #54
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All currently operating maglev trains have a "third rail" for electricity pickup. Until we have this induction charging, the only way around this is to have an enormous and heavy battery onboard. Of all the maglevs I have visited, the Linimo in Nagoya Japan is by far the quietest in operation. A Linimo maglev can pass overhead and it is barely perceptible to the ear. The Linimo is also the first medium speed maglev to be operating in the world.


Here, you can clearly see the third rail, or electric bus bar on the Linimo maglev train in Nagoya Japan.


The Incheon South Korea Maglev also uses these bus bars. They have a scraping noise when in operation, similar to the Changsha Maglev. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmQzvqWyBU


Here is the Changsha maglev with the bus bar in view.


Finally, here is the Shanghai high speed maglev with the bus bars clearly visible.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 04:50 PM   #55
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That's true, though.... I don't have the numbers, but I reckon that the biggest part of the costs is the costs of workforce that has to check the tracks and the units. If you operate a maglev train, you will probably have to employ the same workforce doing the checking. Above that, the maglev trains in fact need some wheels or another contact landing systems. It doesn't levitate all the time. Those need to be checked as well.

And when there's a reparation needed, you can count on much higher costs.

I think that the real breakthrough of maglev technology would come if we would be able to produce superconductors operating at normal temperatures. But that would completely change the transportation system anyway. And whether that is possible at all is yet another question.
You can run a maintenance train like Doctor Yellow of Japanese high speed rail to check the guideway. For conventional rail on track HSR you need that plus the constant maintenance crew going out each night after the last train to grind the marred rail and/or actually replace the rail as well as the overhead power wires because of constant friction. The Tokaido Shinkansen requires 1000 men everyday since they can only cover a certain amount each night before the first train leaves the station.
With Maglev a single ride down the line each day doing diagnostics and an occasional replacement portion of prefabricated concrete wall due to cracks from elements of the weather in which neither system is immune of. The coils used for electro-magnetic induction on the JR system are prefabricated and are made of the same aluminum power cables used for electric cables so the cost is much lower then you think.

With the above comparison do you really believe it is going to cost the same?
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Old March 6th, 2016, 09:10 PM   #56
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Also, please remember everyone that this maglev line is just beginning the testing phase before it is opened to the public. There is still tweaking and bug fixing to be done before opening.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 09:21 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
All currently operating maglev trains have a "third rail" for electricity pickup. Until we have this induction charging, the only way around this is to have an enormous and heavy battery onboard. Of all the maglevs I have visited, the Linimo in Nagoya Japan is by far the quietest in operation. A Linimo maglev can pass overhead and it is barely perceptible to the ear. The Linimo is also the first medium speed maglev to be operating in the world.


Here, you can clearly see the third rail, or electric bus bar on the Linimo maglev train in Nagoya Japan.


The Incheon South Korea Maglev also uses these bus bars. They have a scraping noise when in operation, similar to the Changsha Maglev. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmQzvqWyBU


Here is the Changsha maglev with the bus bar in view.


Finally, here is the Shanghai high speed maglev with the bus bars clearly visible.
Yes and no. They have it but dont have to use it.

EDS systems as Transrapid can use electricity pickup at lower speed, but they rely completely on induction at higher speeds. New transrapid technology then doesnt need pickup at all.

The electricity pickup is suitable only for the low speed aplications. Otherwise it defies the whole concept of frictionless transportation and leads to problems.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 09:45 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
All currently operating maglev trains have a "third rail" for electricity pickup. Until we have this induction charging, the only way around this is to have an enormous and heavy battery onboard. Of all the maglevs I have visited, the Linimo in Nagoya Japan is by far the quietest in operation. A Linimo maglev can pass overhead and it is barely perceptible to the ear. The Linimo is also the first medium speed maglev to be operating in the world.


Here, you can clearly see the third rail, or electric bus bar on the Linimo maglev train in Nagoya Japan.


The Incheon South Korea Maglev also uses these bus bars. They have a scraping noise when in operation, similar to the Changsha Maglev. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmQzvqWyBU


Here is the Changsha maglev with the bus bar in view.


Finally, here is the Shanghai high speed maglev with the bus bars clearly visible.
Very informative post, thanks!
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Old March 7th, 2016, 11:27 PM   #59
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Very informative post, thanks!
Except partly incorrect (see post by Surel).
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Old March 8th, 2016, 06:06 AM   #60
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Except partly incorrect (see post by Surel).
If we are going to be pedantic, there is not a single incorrect info in the post.

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