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Old October 19th, 2009, 01:59 AM   #221
Urbanista1
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Could anyone recommend where I might find photos of what the main churches/cathedrals of Warsaw looked like after the war. What I mean is thorough photo-documentation of their condition after the war ended....or even where I might go to find such detailed information when I am in Warsaw next. I am doing some research. Many thanks in advance. Pozdrawiam
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Old October 19th, 2009, 02:14 AM   #222
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http://www.nac.gov.pl/en/node/58

http://audiovis.nac.gov.pl/search/fc...b85959738d8:3/
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Old October 19th, 2009, 07:22 AM   #223
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Dziekuje bardzo Darhet. Have you ever visited the archives in Warsaw. There are probably many more there. Thanks again
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Old October 21st, 2009, 02:50 AM   #224
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Your welcome!

by Polex:
1944



2009

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Old October 21st, 2009, 02:52 AM   #225
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1945:


2009:


by Polex
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Old October 21st, 2009, 02:53 AM   #226
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1944/1945


2009:


by Polex

Last edited by Darhet; October 21st, 2009 at 03:02 AM.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 03:58 AM   #227
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1944

2009

by Polex
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Old October 21st, 2009, 04:09 AM   #228
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1945

2009

Polex
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Old October 21st, 2009, 04:13 AM   #229
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1945

2009

Polex
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Old October 21st, 2009, 06:52 AM   #230
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When I look at these pictures, they are obviously tragic and heart-breaking that such a beautiful, ancient world-class city was destroyed, but it is somewhat consoling to see that at least some of the walls of the historic buildings survived and that the heroic people of Warsaw were able to reclaim so many of the ancient bricks to reassemble these buildings...so in the end, they are not complete recreations, they are more reassemblies that can claim a very high degree of historic authenticity.

I believe they also used wood frame construction for the interiors of buildings in Stare Miasto, but here is where any claim to authenticity is lost. All those layers of history on the inside, the patina, various signs of wear, fixtures etc are gone for ever.

It's makes me angry to see stunning buildings that survived the war that were subsequently reduced in height and stripped of rich detail by commies. And it doesn't help that the current conservator is opposed to their recreation, so in love is she with socialist realism.

Darhet, do you know if the commies at least kept some of the original structure instead of tearing it all down to build something totally new. It would be great to see photos of actual reconstruction work on the old town.

So glad that the interiors of the Church of the Sacred Heart (repository of Chopin's heart) are being recreated and that the old statues that adorned the niches of St. Martin's will soon be back. As for St. John's, I really wish they would recreate the spectacular interior.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 10:45 AM   #231
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Please explain what is so upsetting about the political culture in Poland with regards to architecture.

To my British eyes, the buildings shown in the photos above are very attractive, even if they are post-war rebuilds. If the Commies are responsible for these buildings, then they did a much better job of post-war reconstruction than did some of the muppets in Britain.

I've been in London 20 years now, working in the in the centre of the city, and it still amazes me at just how ugly many of the buildings built in the 60s, 70s and 80s are. In almost all cases they fit in poorly with the pre-WWII buildings that are still intact.

I sometimes wish the Luftwaffe would bomb the city again, so we can re-do the rebuilding work...
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Old October 21st, 2009, 11:16 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post



Please explain what is so upsetting about the political culture in Poland with regards to architecture.

To my British eyes, the buildings shown in the photos above are very attractive, even if they are post-war rebuilds. If the Commies are responsible for these buildings, then they did a much better job of post-war reconstruction than did some of the muppets in Britain.

I've been in London 20 years now, working in the in the centre of the city, and it still amazes me at just how ugly many of the buildings built in the 60s, 70s and 80s are. In almost all cases they fit in poorly with the pre-WWII buildings that are still intact.

I sometimes wish the Luftwaffe would bomb the city again, so we can re-do the rebuilding work...

You have to remember the horrible situation of Poland back then. They lost important parts of their country (Lwiw, Vilnius) and a huge number of people including almost their entire intellectual elite, they also lost important parts of their cultural heritage and only gained a few smaller, former German regions. The entire nation was shaken to the core. Rebuilding the capital of the country was vital for the identity of the nation.
But a reconstruction like this was only possible in a Commie regime. You have to remember that other places were demolished in order to reconstruct the capital. That's not possible in a democracy. Do you think Edinburgh would tear down half of its old town in order to rebuild London?
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Old October 21st, 2009, 11:56 AM   #233
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Forgive my ignorance, I didn't realise.

That still doesn't explain why so many post-war rebuilds in Britain are so ugly, but that's a subject for another thread...
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Old October 21st, 2009, 12:41 PM   #234
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And it doesn't help that the current conservator is opposed to their recreation, so in love is she with socialist realism.
I see no connection here.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 03:39 PM   #235
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To answer the issues that I have apparently raised, my only critique of the communists (besides that this regime was illegitimately imposed on Poland) was that they rebuilt a scaled down provincial version in many cases of what existed before and stripped buildings of their detail, which stemmed from an ideological distaste for the burgeois.

The old town was in large part rebuilt faithfully even to the point of reviving ancient architectural crafts, but many buildings in districts outside of this zone were stripped of detail, balconies, window frames, applied art and flattened with grey stucco.

Before




After - even though it survived war intact



Before



After



The current conservator besides taking forever to comment on restoration work (Prozna, Zelazna and Grzybowska, Foksal, Plac Unii Lubleskiej) resulting in thier speedier ruination.





is steadfastly refusing to allow the restoration of pre-war versions of some of these buildings - the big city (wielkomiejskie) versions, as we see above in an effort to preserve the socialist realist character of some of the old town that was foisted on Warsaw. To be fair, this may be caused by a lack of money on the part of certain owners.

If Warsaw was free after WWII and not re-occupied by Soviet Russia, I suspect it would have received compensation from Germany (which it never received) and probably only the most historic areas around the OLd Town would have been rebuilt due to their importance to the national identity. Insurnace doesn`t cover war damage only reparations do, so I suspect some of that money would have gone to restore many other buildings that were not beyond retoration. Certainly downtown would not have been razed to the ground to make way for the Palace of Culture and huge empty parade ground where downtown should be. Many of the buildings around Zlota, Prozna etc could have been rebuilt.

Last edited by Urbanista1; October 21st, 2009 at 03:48 PM.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 07:18 AM   #236
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I can see why you're angry. Those last few photos look like Manchester...
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Old October 24th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #237
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If Warsaw was free after WWII and not re-occupied by Soviet Russia, I suspect it would have received compensation from Germany (which it never received)

I don't want to be an ass, but Poland received Silesia, Pommerania, parts of Eastern Prussia and Neumark, all former German territory. Warsaw was rebuilt with material from these regions. It received millions of bricks (especially valuable Gothic bricks) from Wroclaw, the interiors of several Silesian churches (like Lubiasz) and many library's collections.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 12:55 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Darhet View Post
1945

2009

Polex
Is that the Nowy Swiat street? Why were these buildings rebuilt in such a completely different yet classic manner? Did they try to bring back a pre-19th century look or something like that?
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Old October 24th, 2009, 12:59 PM   #239
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[email protected] karasek
germans killed milions of polish citizens including best profesors and leaders, destroyed many polish cities, stole or destroyed most magnificent pieces of art . They want to exterminate polish nation and polish culture! Silesia, Pomerania etc is 1/10 of price which germans should pay for this!

Last edited by Gosc Niedzielny; October 24th, 2009 at 07:11 PM.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 03:02 PM   #240
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I don't want to be an ass, but Poland received Silesia, Pommerania, parts of Eastern Prussia and Neumark, all former German territory. Warsaw was rebuilt with material from these regions. It received millions of bricks (especially valuable Gothic bricks) from Wroclaw, the interiors of several Silesian churches (like Lubiasz) and many library's collections.
Most of this bricks never reached Warsaw...
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