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Old January 12th, 2011, 09:57 PM   #461
yubnub
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Originally Posted by darrrrek View Post
I read all topic and i have to say that there are some persons, who don't know anything about history of Poland and talk.
In 1938 Poland annexed Part of Silesia in Czech Republic, where most people were polish. It was revenge for Czech attack after IWW. For example in Trzyniec / Trinec 60% were Polish. England and France after IWW gave the part of our land for Czech Republic because of foundry in Trzyniec. City Cieszyn has been divided for two countries. In WWII Poland lost almost everythnig, what we were proud of. We lost 1/3 people , we lost our capital, we lost two very important cities, which were caitals of polish culture - Lwów, Wilno, we lost thousands of historical monuments, we lost our history. Huge library in Warsaw was totally destroyed. We lost half of country, we lost indepence for 44 years ( to 1989 ). Then we have got west lands. Completly destroyed festung Breslau - Wrocław, destroyed Gdańsk.
About Gdańsk and Prussia someone said that it was German land. But Gdańsk historically is polish ( from 1214 to 1795, when Prussia take part in partitions of Poland) .I won't write all polish history. Read about Konrad Mazowiecki, who imported Germans to help Poland.What was not destroyed to 1945 destroyed communists f.ex. Legnica, Jelenia Góra, Zielona Góra, Racibórz. We won this war, but west Europe sold us to Russia, everyone forgot about polish soldiers in this war, about Warsaw Uprising, which delayed russian march to west. In semptember 1939 France and England was obliged to help us and what? NOTHING. Most people talk about participation of french army in this war, but they did much less than Poland. If you think about Poland as a poor country you should know that it is all because Churchill and Roosvelt, which gave us to Stalin. Before war Poland was rich as Italy and more rich than Spain. Communism destroyed our country. Ugly architecture in historical parts of cities, destroying buildings, which survived war.
"what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger"

anyway ive been to Poland three times (Krakow and Zakopane) and i loved it so much im going back again this year. Sure Poland has had a shit time recently but now it will grow and become great again!
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Old January 12th, 2011, 10:36 PM   #462
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Don't be so dramatic. You sound like a pretty hard anticommunist.
"Ugly architecture" - NO!
A lot of blocks may look ugly now, but that's what people in XIX century thought about classical architecture. They are a history of our country, a history of regrowth.
Too bad they are just treated like a trash and painted in ugly colours.
Wait a few decades and you'll see they will be treated as a monument.
And they are still incredibly good organized.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 10:58 PM   #463
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that's what people in XIX century thought about classical architecture. .
Ummm... not true. The XIX artists idealized classical antiquity, and the architecture of the period reflected this perfectly. I doubt some generation in the future will do that with commie blocks.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 11:04 PM   #464
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I think what he meant was "what people from XX century thought about XIX century architecture" and it's true since many of this buildings were demolished without any protests.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 11:09 PM   #465
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That would make more sense
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Old January 13th, 2011, 06:01 AM   #466
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It's true neoclassical and beaux arts buildings were not that appreciated but modern buildings can never create that unique European urban character and feel that these beautifully detailed structures can.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old February 18th, 2011, 04:59 AM   #467
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1944/1945 vs 2010/2011

St. Michael and St. Florian Cathedral
destroyed by German Verbrennungskommando (Burning Detachment) .
Bazylika katedralna św. Floriana Męczennika i św. Michała Archanioła



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Originally Posted by Polex View Post
Św. Florian fotografowany przez Sempolińskiego w zasadzie uniemożliwia obecnie dokładne dopasowanie współczesnych zdjęć - totalna ruina! I dlatego, oprócz pierwszego zdjęcia, pozostałe zdjęcia porównawcze proszę traktować z pewnym dystansem. Dziś cz.I



















Last edited by Darhet; February 18th, 2011 at 05:08 AM.
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Old February 18th, 2011, 05:12 AM   #468
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1944/1945vs 2010/2011

The Krasiński Palace , 1683 ad

The Krasiński Palace 1939:



damaged, burnt by German Verbrennungskommando (Burning Detachment)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polex View Post
c.d. Sempolińskiego - Pałac Krasińskich


















Last edited by Darhet; February 18th, 2011 at 05:23 AM.
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Old February 18th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #469
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These are amazing reconstructions. I always thought that the right bank of Warsaw was hardly touched but it looks like St. Michael's/Florians was as badly damaged as St. John's in the Old Town - in other words, totally destroyed. The worst part of the destruction of the Krasinski Palace was that it housed an amazing library with ancient artifacts and manuscripts salvaged from the Alexandria library fire...80% gone, I believe, very sad.
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Old February 18th, 2011, 06:34 PM   #470
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Good threat. I think that to fully understand spirit of Warsaw i post this (don't know anyone do it before):
List of battles involved city and its ancestor:
1262 -Jazdów(town before Warsaw) burn by Lithuanian-Russian army
1515 - In the war with Grand Duchy of Moscow burn part of Warsaw
1656- Battle of Warsaw against Swedenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...saw_%281656%29
1705 - Battle of Warsaw against Sweden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...saw_%281705%29
1794 - Warsaw Uprising against Russian Empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising_%281794%29
1831 - Battle of Warsaw against Russian Empirehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...saw_%281831%29
1920 - Battle of Warsaw against Soviet Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...saw_%281920%29
1939 - Siege of Warsawhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Warsaw_%281939%29
January 18, 1943 - Warsaw Ghetto Uprisinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising
1 August 1944 - Warsaw Uprising http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising


There are reasons that it call WARSAW
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Old February 20th, 2011, 08:26 PM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nv2 View Post
Good threat. I think that to fully understand spirit of Warsaw i post this (don't know anyone do it before):
List of battles involved city and its ancestor:

There are reasons that it call WARSAW
Ha! I'm think that each major European city have own military history of the battles and revolts.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 07:37 PM   #472
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This war was a test for humanity as a whole. The destruction of Warsaw was different than the allied bombings of major German cities. It was personal. That's why it stings a little more. I'll be in Warsaw in late May with my camera. Hope to document as much as possible.
http://mikerychlik.ifp3.com/
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Old February 27th, 2011, 11:25 PM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
This war was a test for humanity as a whole. The destruction of Warsaw was different than the allied bombings of major German cities. It was personal. That's why it stings a little more. I'll be in Warsaw in late May with my camera. Hope to document as much as possible.
http://mikerychlik.ifp3.com/
You will find a city of great contrasts, still a lot of blight from the commie era but also much restoration and reconstruction and of course the new commercial city. It's a shame that beautiful Marshall street (English spelling) was not rebuilt, I fear it won't be now.
You must go to Lazienki Park, in my opinion probably the finest city park in the world, just magical.
Great city, I look forward to a return visit soon.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 05:36 PM   #474
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congratulations rychlik on your venture into photography and good luck, Warsaw should provide you with ample opportunities. you should check out some of the photography threads (miasta polskie) under the Polish forum. I'll be in Warsaw sometime this summer too. Warsaw is a very complex and multi-layered work of art, jarring, disturbing, dissappointing and sublime. as cameronpaul said the parks are the best in Europe and apparently Lazienki is undergoing major restorations this year. anyone visiting the palace on the water should tour the interiors.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 08:01 PM   #475
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for those interested in this era of warsaw's history, a must-read is Adolf Ciborowski's "Warsaw, A City Destroyed and Rebuilt" It's out of print but you can get the 1964 or 1969 editions through Abebooks.com and other such. His accounts of how Varsovians lived like cave dwellers in ruins at night while spending their days sorting through bricks and the whole chronology of the reconstruction of the city is very detailed and fascinating.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 08:06 PM   #476
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Great to see Warsaw re build, awesome.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 10:39 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
for those interested in this era of warsaw's history, a must-read is Adolf Ciborowski's "Warsaw, A City Destroyed and Rebuilt" It's out of print but you can get the 1964 or 1969 editions through Abebooks.com and other such. His accounts of how Varsovians lived like cave dwellers in ruins at night while spending their days sorting through bricks and the whole chronology of the reconstruction of the city is very detailed and fascinating.
Is the book in English?
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 01:23 AM   #478
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it is in English or there is an english version. I bought the English version and must say I've read it a few times, fascinating information and pics. are you in central T.O?
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 04:59 AM   #479
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Yup..... Bloor/Dufferin area.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 08:20 PM   #480
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U of T Reference library has a copy too last I checked, but didn't renew my library membership cause it was cheaper to buy the book. There are some other books on the subject but none as comprehensive as this one. Another good book is by Julian Bryran who was a photojournalist that worked for Life Magazine and was trapped inside Warsaw during the occupation and seige. His book "Warsaw" is more readily available and has some more jarring images that show more of the human tragedy.

I was going to post images from the book previously cited but I'm afraid it might damage the spine of this fragile vintage book.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

Last edited by Urbanista1; March 2nd, 2011 at 10:04 PM.
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