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Old March 7th, 2011, 08:36 PM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
rychlik seems to fit all the stereotypes of an angry Pole. Hatred against Germans...check. Latent anti-Semitism...check.
I am not. Just critical. How am I anti-semitic? Did I display hatred? No.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 08:41 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It is really problematic to blame only the Germans for all war ravage that swept central Europe in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. For one example: it is today widely accepted by historians that harsh conditions imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles fueled events that led to the build-up of WW-2.
I cannot fully agree with this. Then why were they not murdeing the French all over the place? They had no problems murdering Poles. The Poles did not implement the Treaty of Versailles. Just stating my argument.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 11:37 PM   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
rychlik seems to fit all the stereotypes of an angry Pole. Hatred against Germans...check. Latent anti-Semitism...check.
this is really extreme and as you say stereotypical which implies a somewhat bigoted oversimplification. I grew up in a Polish milieu in Canada and spent many summers in Poland and never encountered anti-semitism or even anti-German sentiments except at university and on this website. Family members of mine survived Berghen Belsen and Auschwitz, but surprisingly never said anything bad about them to my knowledge, I suspect some Stockholm Syndrome here, but I think it was more about the fact that most Germans typically did not exhibit any savagery or joy in carrying out what were evil tasks, others were different but won't get into that. This latent Polish anti-semitism is also another story I won't get into, but suffice it to say it and other varieties of hate exist wherever poverty, ignorance and brainwashing/propaganda coexist to produce the need for scapegoats.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

Last edited by Urbanista1; March 7th, 2011 at 11:45 PM.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 05:52 PM   #524
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Make love, not war.
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Old March 31st, 2011, 02:12 PM   #525
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For Karasek ( Sorry for my English ) !

[QUOTE=Karasek;73851965]Of course Poles could do whatever they wanted with the new territories. But a program to eradicate the cultural heritage of the German nation is in no way different than the destruction of the Polish cultural heritage. Both originates from the same twisted, nationalistic mindset, and it's no coincidence that it happened in two autocratic societies.
And no, the new territories weren't all in ruins. The entire area to the south od the Odra for example was mostly untouched. Jelenia Gora, perfectly preserved, was destroyed by the Polish Commies. The old town of Legnica, a picture-perfect example of Friderician rococo, was leveled because of their Prussian heritage. In Nysa hundreds of preserved medieval town houses were

destroyed, and in Wroclaw the eastern part of the old town, which survived the war in acceptable condition, was leveled. Polish preservationists estimated in 1986 that the majority of the destructions in the towns of Silesia AOTE]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

??????????????????????????????????????????????????? :


WELL : Mister Karasek,


( Sorry for my bad English, I'm French ).


You write really strange things, on the contrary, most of the palaces, castles, churches, and towns of Silesia are being on restoration today, all Polish heritage and all this region is restored now, so the German heritage too !

What you're talking is without nonsense because "Silesia" is not in ruins, because this region and the rest of Poland is in permanent restoration today,
simply : the German, Polish, Jews, etc... heritage, all over Poland, is being restored now, also cities you cited "Wroclaw, Nysa, Legnica etc " ...

Again, restorations concern Poland's castles, palaces, churches, etc. ...

Poland spends astronomical sums for restorations, reconstructions etc. ..

Poland is a country that becomes richest year by year, and that you can see while you're traveling through all Poland ...

There are more restorations in Poland than in any other European country !

My country which is France is in crisis, so they are not so many restorations today, maybe in few years, i hope ...



Poland is a vast project, which is not the case of Germany, because
Germany is in crisis, and Germany hasn't so much money than before !



The past is the past, what is important today, is to save all "Heritage" what we have in all Europe and never, ... never do what was done between 1939-1945 ! We must live together without WAR, HATE, etc... this is important for us "European" and for the new European generations who even don't know what happened between Germany & Poland.



And big bravo for Warsaw, because when i was there with my children's, they don't want believe me when I told them that Warsaw was destroyed,
because :

The reconstructed Warsaw is huge and incredibly beautiful !!!

And today the reconstructed city is being restored, so why Warsaw is so colorful, it's a pleasure for eyes !



Hello from France, Lyon.
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Last edited by angelika; March 31st, 2011 at 02:32 PM.
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Old March 31st, 2011, 04:35 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Poles were compensated with land, from which 7 million Germans were evicted after the end of the war (on top of 2-3 million who had already left before hostilities ended). German didn't harass the Poles afterward.
I think I need to correct you. Poland had a bigger territory - the difference was roughly the area of the Netherlands and Belgium together - before WWII than now.

So it was not at all compensating the greedy Polish for the bad that happened to them during the war. Most people that settled there were forced to flee from their homes in eastern Poland, because it was taken by USSR. You'd be surprised how many elderly people living now in Wrocław, Opole or Szczecin spent their childhood around Lviv or Grodno. I fully understand the tragedy of Germans that had to leave these territories, but the ones that took over their land were in exactly the same situation. And this is what many people fail to notice.

About the harassment - the new border was not officialy agreed until 1991 and there are still some refund claims from the Germans led by a certain CDU politician.
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Old March 31st, 2011, 06:14 PM   #527
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the other difference between Poles and Germans in this case, was that after fighting valiantly for the allies and resisting Nazis, defending Jews more than any other nation (in short the Polish state did not collaborate with Nazi like many European states did), Poles in the East were expropriated and moved into a new occupation under Soviet Union. At least most of West Germany was free to prosper and got a massive Marshall Plan of $30 billion from the US in 1950 or so (about $250 billion today) to rebuild. Poles were expropriated, reoccupied without a penny of compensation from anyone. Poles rebuilt Poland with their own hands with support mainly from Polonia (Poles outside Poland). The Soviet Union did provide support in the form of materials but this is after almost all of the machinery in the industrial heartland was dismantled and moved to the Soviet Union. Anyway, I don't hate anyone, this is to set the record straight when certain individuals who seem to have a deep-seated hatred of Poland try to rewrite or whitewash history.

Why do you think it is taking so long to rebuild the country, to sort out the legal morasse.

Oh yes, back to Warsaw, we did get the Palace of Culture, thanks, I think
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old March 31st, 2011, 06:46 PM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marobara View Post
I think I need to correct you. Poland had a bigger territory - the difference was roughly the area of the Netherlands and Belgium together - before WWII than now.

So it was not at all compensating the greedy Polish for the bad that happened to them during the war. Most people that settled there were forced to flee from their homes in eastern Poland, because it was taken by USSR. You'd be surprised how many elderly people living now in Wrocław, Opole or Szczecin spent their childhood around Lviv or Grodno.
The territory was much less populated and developed. 1,5mio Poles were expelled from Eastern Poland, and in return Poland received a smaller German territory, which was however much more densely populated (~9mio) and much more developed. This rich territory was more or less raided (the so called szaber) to rebuilt the rest of the country. Dolny Slask (Lower Silesia) became "Dojny Slask".
BTW: the majority of the inhabitants in the new Polish territories is from Inner Poland, 25% from former Eastern Poland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelika
You write really strange things, on the contrary, most of the palaces, castles, churches, and towns of Silesia are being on restoration today, all Polish heritage and all this region is restored now, so the German heritage too!
I invite you to visit my thread about castles and palaces in Silesia (in German):
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1294391

But what do I know... I live only 5km away from the Polish border and travel the region extensively, but of course the Polonia in other countries, or even continents, knows it better...
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Old March 31st, 2011, 07:32 PM   #529
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Developed? Danzig, Breslau, Sttetin looked not much better than Warsaw after the war. Wilno, Lwów was almost untouched. We didn't decide nor propably wanted it. Anyway we all paid the price for German nationalism.
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Old April 1st, 2011, 07:56 AM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
The territory was much less populated and developed. 1,5mio Poles were expelled from Eastern Poland, and in return Poland received a smaller German territory, which was however much more densely populated (~9mio) and much more developed. This rich territory was more or less raided (the so called szaber) to rebuilt the rest of the country. Dolny Slask (Lower Silesia) became "Dojny Slask".
BTW: the majority of the inhabitants in the new Polish territories is from Inner Poland, 25% from former Eastern Poland.
I'd like to see some statistics because on the research I've looked at did not substantiate that claim. Furthermore, you are correct in your assessment of the level of industrialization of Lower Silesia. The difference, though, is that it was destroyed, plundered by the USSR, given to an administration with no experience managing the area let alone in a position to properly rebuild it and it was taken out of its original economic hinterland and thrown into a jumbled communist framework. Gross over simplification on your part. Moreover, as someone rightfully pointed out, the portions of Eastern Poland placed under USSR administration were also well developed and not destroyed by war as in the case of some of the piles of rubble given to Poland (Breslau, Stettin etc).
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Old April 1st, 2011, 11:26 AM   #531
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???

About Karasek.

I think that if anyone answer to him, even yours comments are true,
he'll never change his opinion about what, how, why, Poland destroyed this, or that, etc. I think it will be better to stop to speak ( write ) with him ...

He belongs to a very little community who have such opinions.

You're loosing your time like me !

Positive thing :

Today many peoples like visiting Poland and find this
country beautiful !
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Old April 1st, 2011, 11:59 AM   #532
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^ Considering the amount of disputable claims you wrote in child-language, without substantiating any of them, I think you're not in the position to ask any people to answer to certain individuals here on this forum.

Additionally: even if it makes you feel special, it is normal to write without bold letters. Doing so equals to shouting, just like CAPITALS.
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Old April 1st, 2011, 12:45 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelika View Post
???

About Karasek.

I think that if anyone answer to him, even yours comments are true,
he'll never change his opinion about what, how, why, Poland destroyed this, or that, etc. I think it will be better to stop to speak ( write ) with him ...

He belongs to a very little community who have such opinions.

You're loosing your time like me !

Positive thing :

Today many peoples like visiting Poland and find this
country beautiful !
I thought, it was especially you, who wrote quite alot, how to put it in words... deluded "bullmerde".
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Old April 1st, 2011, 02:53 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
^ Considering the amount of disputable claims you wrote in child-language, without substantiating any of them, I think you're not in the position to ask any people to answer to certain individuals here on this forum.

Additionally: even if it makes you feel special, it is normal to write without bold letters. Doing so equals to shouting, just like CAPITALS.


Have you finished ?

You're from ...Moscow / Berlin. Now I understand!

Last edited by angelika; April 1st, 2011 at 03:13 PM.
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Old April 1st, 2011, 02:58 PM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
I thought, it was especially you, who wrote quite alot, how to put it in words... deluded "bullmerde".
And not you ?
(condemerde).

Last edited by angelika; April 1st, 2011 at 03:09 PM.
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Old April 1st, 2011, 04:22 PM   #536
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Too much inevitable bickering.
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