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Old January 13th, 2006, 01:38 AM   #41
Tubeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz
so, why London Transport don't give the names for bus lines?

i think with the phone numbers in my mobile u may be right, but with transport lines (it doesn't matter subway or bus) it's better just a letter or number,

in such Paris, Berlin, Barcelona or wherever u just say: 'u must go by tube, line 3' and in London u have to say: 'u must go by tube, Hammersmith and city line' !! that is tooooooo long!!

besides the name such as 'Central' doesn't say anythink, all lines (except the east london line) are going throu central London
'Bekerloo' goes from Beker street to woterloo but the 'jubilee' also does
'Metropolitan' - metropolitan are all of the tube lines
'Circle' it's ok, it is indeed the only one that goes around the city, but it doesn't say anything else
'Northern' - are not the only lines going to northern London, the Victoria and Piccadilly also are and even Central and Metropolitan and Bekerloo and jubilee, besides, Victoria is only one of the 3 lines passing this train station
'District' as the other lines is going outside central London
so the names don't tell to passangers so much as the numbers would tell.

i can understand that's tradition, but it's nothing else. there are no more any excuse for such names, they just don't mean any more what they used to in the past.
Re: Buses

There are over 700 bus routes in London compared to 12 tube lines, this is why the bus routes don't each have names

The rest of your points are gibberish. You obviously have some sort of problem with London's transport network, I suggest you get over it.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 01:38 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz
so, why London Transport don't give the names for bus lines?

i think with the phone numbers in my mobile u may be right, but with transport lines (it doesn't matter subway or bus) it's better just a letter or number,

in such Paris, Berlin, Barcelona or wherever u just say: 'u must go by tube, line 3' and in London u have to say: 'u must go by tube, Hammersmith and city line' !! that is tooooooo long!!

besides the name such as 'Central' doesn't say anythink, all lines (except the east london line) are going throu central London
'Bekerloo' goes from Beker street to woterloo but the 'jubilee' also does
'Metropolitan' - metropolitan are all of the tube lines
'Circle' it's ok, it is indeed the only one that goes around the city, but it doesn't say anything else
'Northern' - are not the only lines going to northern London, the Victoria and Piccadilly also are and even Central and Metropolitan and Bekerloo and jubilee, besides, Victoria is only one of the 3 lines passing this train station
'District' as the other lines is going outside central London
so the names don't tell to passangers so much as the numbers would tell.

i can understand that's tradition, but it's nothing else. there are no more any excuse for such names, they just don't mean any more what they used to in the past.
Come on, stop whinging.

In North America it is common to use numbers for street names. It's a good system still, and I can see why they like it. But in most of the rest of the world, we use names. Each city has thousands of names for all the streets and it seems to work pretty well.

In fact, it's the opposite for Freeway's, Motorway's or Autobahns - whatever you want to call it. In North America, Freeway's often have names, e.g. "Santa Monica Freeway" as vrs most of Europe which tend to use numbers: M40. Both seem to work well.

Would you prefer your street to be changed to a number? Would you find that easier? Then why go on about London's naming convention on the Tube?

Remembering "Circle Line" is no harder than remembering to shop on "Oxford Street" or you live on "Hornby Street" etc.

I simply don't believe you when you say it's much easier to say or remember a number for a metro line. If you have no problems with street names, then you have no problems with Tube names.

Both work pretty well. Of cause, you could always take it further. The ultimate naming scheme would be Alphanumeric for all lines and stations. All lines are letters of the Alphabet, and all stations are numbers. Then a station would be called A6 or G23. It would be obvious that if you are at G10 and had to get off at G23, it would be 13 stops.

But then, would you really prefer all the names on your own metro to be abolished for numbers?
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Old January 13th, 2006, 01:49 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
This is where you're wrong though... No Londoner says "I live on the brown line"... The line names are the first choice of description.
I wasn't talking about the way they're called but about the way they're recognized, which is slightly different. No one in Paris talk about the line purple, they talk about the line 14.

However, the line is easily recognized by its colour. And I'm sure that if I tell you "Central line" you'll automatically associate it with the red colour, and not any kind of red, but the particular red used for the line. When you get in a new city, the first thing you'll notice to differenciate subway lines will be their colours.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 02:01 AM   #44
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@Justme :

The problem I personally have with giving names instead of numbers for metro line is that it's harder to ordinate the systems in my head. However I'm sure that's something personal.

When I think about Châtelet les Halles. It's rather simple to me. The lines transiting through that station are and . If I've shown you their symbol, it's because that's how they are pictured in my head.

At the opposite, when I'm in King's cross... it's getting more blurry. There are Northern, Victoria, Piccadily, Hammersmith&City, Circle and District. That makes only 6 lines compared with 8 at Châtelet but it sounds a lot more fuzzy.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 02:38 AM   #45
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In Barcelona each line has got a colour and a number, and the colour of the line is very "present" in the stations. Moreover BCN metro is really very well signposted.

Also, a lot of Barcelonians say: the red line, the purple line or the blue line instead of the line numbers!
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Old January 13th, 2006, 02:50 AM   #46
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in san francisco metro, the name of the line is its origin and final destination, simple and to the point. And for signs lol...anything thats obvious works for me
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Old January 13th, 2006, 03:25 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
@Justme :

The problem I personally have with giving names instead of numbers for metro line is that it's harder to ordinate the systems in my head. However I'm sure that's something personal.

When I think about Châtelet les Halles. It's rather simple to me. The lines transiting through that station are and . If I've shown you their symbol, it's because that's how they are pictured in my head.

At the opposite, when I'm in King's cross... it's getting more blurry. There are Northern, Victoria, Piccadily, Hammersmith&City, Circle and District. That makes only 6 lines compared with 8 at Châtelet but it sounds a lot more fuzzy.
But what you failed to mention is that each of the Tube lines is signed on a block of the relevant colour, the colour coding of the lines is paramount, so to just type 'Victoria', 'Northern' etc is doing the signage a disservice, especially as you posted pretty symbols with colours etc for the metro / RER lines.

You make it sound like all the signs at Kings Cross are plain black and white and say 'Northern Line this way' or 'Victoria Line that way' on them

Everything's colour coded, and to be honest I found the Paris signage very misleading in many places and I've travelled on a lot of metros and never got lost.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 05:20 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
But what you failed to mention is that each of the Tube lines is signed on a block of the relevant colour, the colour coding of the lines is paramount, so to just type 'Victoria', 'Northern' etc is doing the signage a disservice, especially as you posted pretty symbols with colours etc for the metro / RER lines.

You make it sound like all the signs at Kings Cross are plain black and white and say 'Northern Line this way' or 'Victoria Line that way' on them
Well, I know there's a colour coding for each tube line, that's what I've mentionned few posts above. If I didn't use symbols for tube lines, it's because I couldn't find them on the internet. Now as you're obviously angry about it, I've just made them myself.

So at King's Cross it will be :







and at Châtelet it will be :
.

Quote:
Everything's colour coded, and to be honest I found the Paris signage very misleading in many places and I've travelled on a lot of metros and never got lost.
What I enjoy in London is that platforms are indicated not according to their termini but according to their cardinal direction : northbound or southbound, westbound or eastbound. You don't have to look up at a map and check if it's the right one when you don't know the city.

For metro it's still fine as usually there's one single terminus for each direction, but that becomes more complicate with the RER where most lines divide in several branches.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 05:45 AM   #49
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Talking about colour coding, let's play a bit with Paris metro and London tube.




















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Old January 13th, 2006, 01:02 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
Well, I know there's a colour coding for each tube line, that's what I've mentionned few posts above. If I didn't use symbols for tube lines, it's because I couldn't find them on the internet. Now as you're obviously angry about it, I've just made them myself.

So at King's Cross it will be :







and at Châtelet it will be :
.

What I enjoy in London is that platforms are indicated not according to their termini but according to their cardinal direction : northbound or southbound, westbound or eastbound. You don't have to look up at a map and check if it's the right one when you don't know the city.

For metro it's still fine as usually there's one single terminus for each direction, but that becomes more complicate with the RER where most lines divide in several branches.
Sorry, I don't see any problems with the naming system in London, what you show, especially in the next post with the names and colours of both the Paris and London networks, demonstrates to me that there is no problem at all with it. In fact, I like the personal feeling of the names on the tube.

That said, I also have no problems with the numbering system on the Paris metro, both are equally easy for me to comprehend.

What is an improvement of the Paris network over London, is the comprehension also given to the RER. From Kings Cross you also can get several suburban and commuter trains (not to mention the nearby Thames Link station) but in London the suburban railways do not have any proper colour coding, number or name. Or if they do, I havn't noticed it. This is certainly something that has to be improved.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 04:39 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz
so, why London Transport don't give the names for bus lines?

i think with the phone numbers in my mobile u may be right, but with transport lines (it doesn't matter subway or bus) it's better just a letter or number,

in such Paris, Berlin, Barcelona or wherever u just say: 'u must go by tube, line 3' and in London u have to say: 'u must go by tube, Hammersmith and city line' !! that is tooooooo long!!

besides the name such as 'Central' doesn't say anythink, all lines (except the east london line) are going throu central London
'Bekerloo' goes from Beker street to woterloo but the 'jubilee' also does
'Metropolitan' - metropolitan are all of the tube lines
'Circle' it's ok, it is indeed the only one that goes around the city, but it doesn't say anything else
'Northern' - are not the only lines going to northern London, the Victoria and Piccadilly also are and even Central and Metropolitan and Bekerloo and jubilee, besides, Victoria is only one of the 3 lines passing this train station
'District' as the other lines is going outside central London
so the names don't tell to passangers so much as the numbers would tell.

i can understand that's tradition, but it's nothing else. there are no more any excuse for such names, they just don't mean any more what they used to in the past.
As has already been mentioned, there are some 700+ bus routes in London and only 12 London Underground lines.

I do not see exactly the requirement to have everything in numbers! If that was the case then why not towns, streets and people assigned numbers? Warsaw could be called 1213 and Poland would be country 83. You could be assigned citizen number 823255212!

I still don't exactly understand what problem is there in naming the lines? Numerial only lines offer far less in regards to geographical location, coverage or possible routes. They loose any uniqueness compared to other metro lines around the world and they loose any association with the urban fabric of the cities they run through. Simply put - the lines have worked in one form or another for over 140 years, longer than any other network in the world, are still generally efficient in identifying the line, route and coverage.




Justme - Generally there is no identification for the commuter & long-distance services for the non London Underground heavy rail services other than the train destination and whether it is a local or express services. They are though grouped by network operator colour on the network maps.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 06:41 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
What is an improvement of the Paris network over London, is the comprehension also given to the RER. From Kings Cross you also can get several suburban and commuter trains (not to mention the nearby Thames Link station) but in London the suburban railways do not have any proper colour coding, number or name. Or if they do, I havn't noticed it. This is certainly something that has to be improved.
I'm sorry to disagree with you Justme but in Paris there's also no proper colour coding to suburban trains. I've already told it to you but you don't seem to realize it, the RER network is not the suburban train network.

RER lines are by the way a lot more similar to tube lines then Paris metro lines do. Not only in the way they've been designed (London tube lines are also suburban lines transiting through the center), but also in their general look and way of being used.










Last edited by Metropolitan; January 13th, 2006 at 06:53 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 07:04 PM   #53
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Personally I find the London Undergorund very easy to use and although I know all the names of the lines, I know people who do just refer to them as the colours if they don't know the name. Also, as Tubeman pointed out many of them have abbreviations which are frequently used. I haven't used any other metros so I don't know how it compares signs-wise with other big networks, but I've only got lost once or twice and one of those was at 'Oxford Circus' I think it was, where you have to come out and then walk outside and go in another entrance before using the other lines (quite confusing)

I had no idea London Underground had its' own font either.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 11:41 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
I'm sorry to disagree with you Justme but in Paris there's also no proper colour coding to suburban trains. I've already told it to you but you don't seem to realize it, the RER network is not the suburban train network.

RER lines are by the way a lot more similar to tube lines then Paris metro lines do. Not only in the way they've been designed (London tube lines are also suburban lines transiting through the center), but also in their general look and way of being used.
I'm not going to debate with you again on this Metropolitan.

Why can't you just accept that I follow the accepted understanding the majority of the world follows in that the RER is not a metro, but a suburban system. And I also follow the accepted standard that the Underground is a metro.

I am happy for you that you choose to follow a different understanding. You are entitled to this, just as I am to follow what the majority believe.
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Old January 14th, 2006, 12:13 AM   #55
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C'mon guys, let's not argue over this kind of futile what's-in-a-name-games. It's pointless. There's no clear distinction that can be drawn between different types of systems, simply because it's all in the eye of the beholder.
What you are doing is displaying a 'discontinuous mentality': the (very human, btw) urge to divide each and everything into neat, nicely polished and mutually separated categories. Point is, reality doesn't do in 'categories'. You can think of the RER as a suburban network, since it has many of that features (sharing tracks with main railway lines, many bundles lines, rolling stock that comes closer to suburban trains than metro rolling stock). But you could equally well think of it as a metro system (runs underground, independent of other street traffic, high frequency, only used within the urban zone of Paris, which is comparable in size to the London one).
So: you're both right...and you're both wrong. So that leaves the discussion nowhere to go. Happy now?
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Old January 15th, 2006, 03:49 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum
Every station in Mexico City metro has a unique logo


Each station is identified by a unique logo related to the name of the station or the area around it. For example, Metro Zapata, named after Emiliano Zapata, depicts a moustachioed revolutionary wearing a sombrero in green background. On the other hand Metro Pino Suárez, named after another hero of the Revolution, shows the Aztec ruins found during the construction of the station as its symbol.



The logo's background colours reflect those of the line the station serves. Stations serving two or more lines show the respective colours of each line in diagonal stripes. The idea of using logos in addition to names was to assist those passengers who have difficulty reading.




















Monterrey and Guadalajara function in the same way.

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Old January 15th, 2006, 10:11 AM   #57
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Tokyo Metro Lines


Toei Subway Lines
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Old January 16th, 2006, 02:55 AM   #58
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NY subway signing is terrible. Sometimes you don't even know what station you're approaching.
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Old January 16th, 2006, 05:08 AM   #59
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Definatly Washington DC, I love those posts!









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Old January 16th, 2006, 05:18 AM   #60
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I like NYC's subway signs and mosaics





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