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Old January 19th, 2006, 08:22 AM   #101
Justme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro
If you are selling apples and place a sign that says "apples" and I am selling apples at the other end of the world and place a sign that says "apples" then I'm certainly not dedicating my apples to yours, we are just using a common term independently. I suppose the same holds true for London's Metropolitan Line and Paris's metro.

Now, I have to ask myself, why are you insisting that Nick is wrong here?
ok... "dedicated" was probably the wrong word, but the Paris metro was certainly named after the metropolitan railway that started the London Underground.

I have read this many times and seen it on a couple of TV documentary's as well.

I'm not going to waste my morning looking for internet references, but they are everywhere. Feel free to look yourself.

I did a 5minute search on wikipedia however, and found this on the "metro" page:
Quote:
The first line of the Paris Metro opened in 1900. Its full name was the Chemin de Fer Métropolitain, a direct translation into French of London's Metropolitan Railway. The name was shortened to métro, and many other languages have since borrowed this word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro

Feel free to search yourself. There are plenty of references. Nick wasn't making this up.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:07 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
I believe there are no tracks where the district line and commuter lines use. There are though District line tracks running alongside commuter line tracks which is something totally different.
Gunnersbury to Richmond
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:08 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz
the problem here seems to be as follow: 'London should be the best, London should be the first in every matter, the whole world is copping all ideas from London, and the rest of the world is nothing worth, the only thing that counts is LONDON!!!'

if the things are so, then sory for that, how dare we, insulting the holy place - London

from my part I apologise
from that moment London will be always in my haert, always in my mind
let's forget all things that do not come from that fine place, we'll move to London and will forget our places. 'coz it's stupid to live in other places that are not as so good as London is.
sorry, i have to go, to get my ticket to London
You appear to have issues
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:09 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
You can take the Thameslink with a tube ticket ?
Between Kentish Town and Elephant & Castle / London Bridge
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:35 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Jam35
I'd also give NYC the booby prize though:

I could tile my bathroom better than that.
Isn't it Broadway... not whatever the **** they spelt there. ALthough it could just be another street.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 12:27 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
The best I've read about this was that due to its high frequency all RER lines, including lines D and C, have their specific tracks. If that really make that much a difference...
There are many lines around Japan that have higher frequencies and capacities than most metro lines in the world.... that doesn't automatically make them a metro line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
There are suburban rails in Paris area which is independent from the RER network. Suburban rails consist mainly of 6 networks : Gare St-Lazare, Gare du Nord, Gare de l'Est, Gare de Lyon, Gare Montparnasse and La Défense. No one is saying that those networks have any similarity with a metro system !

The RER is a hybrid between suburban rails and metro. Hybrid means that it cannot be totally assimilated neither to the suburban rails nor to the metro.
The RER is more suburban than metro simply because it resides outside the city proper and in the periphery and metro area surrounding the City of Paris! It has similarities with metro services, but so do many other lines around the world...that doesn't make them metro services though! I would have though that its name hinted towards that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
So what you're saying is that before the creation of the Greater London the tube wasn't a metro ?
Essentially it wasn't, but back then the 'tube' didn't exist and the underground lines that did exist were in what was then London. The tube lines didn't come around until the deep level lines and then the expansion to Greater London practically formulated its boundaries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
You can take the Thameslink with a tube ticket ? There's a train on Thameslink every 90 seconds ? The most similar system to the RER in London is the underground, but that doesn't mean both systems are the same. That doesn't mean the RER is a full metro, once again I repeat it's a hybrid system. The thing is just that it's silly to consider the RER as a mere suburban rails network as it's about not accepting it's far more than that.
If you mean can you use travelcards: yes - I travel from Portsmouth to Bishop's Stortford via London using the tube on a frequent basis using the same ticket. Yet the Portsmouth Direct Line and West Anglia Main Line are not metro lines!

There was a thread on here where there was talk about Thameslink being comparable to the RER lines. I did some work & a few calculations and the average frequency across the network for Thameslink and RER lines D + E worked out showing:

RER Line E - 4.619
Thameslink - 4.607
RER Line D - 3.979

Comparable frequencies as you can see, while the completition of Thameslink 2000, Thameslink frequencies will be as high as those on the RER lines A + B, while Crossrail which should see building work start soon will have higher frequencies than Thameslink and any RER line. I'd still consider Thameslink and Crossrail as suburban services though, because that is where the majority of their services and traffic originate from and this is the same for the RER lines!

Yet you can't say the RER is similar to the London Underground because the London Underground isn't a suburban rail service - its a city proper heavy rail service like the Paris Metro is. Hell some of the RER rolling stock is double decker - that isn't what metro rolling stock is, but longer regional services which is what the RER is like. Now like I said, if you have problems with the city proper boundary definitions of the City of Paris then take it up with them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by micro
Numbers are certainly easier to grasp. We are not talking about what YOU are able to grasp but what the average visitor is able (and willing!) to grasp.
Yet there is the problem of confusion over numbers, as afterall words can be associated with something more easily than a number can. Words are also more distinguishable than numbers are, so the chance of forgetting the designated title of a line is less likely if its worded. I would be worried though for anyone that has trouble to understand a word. Every system has their own way of delivering their network so please can we just let it go - its getting tiring!


Quote:
Originally Posted by micro
If you are selling apples and place a sign that says "apples" and I am selling apples at the other end of the world and place a sign that says "apples" then I'm certainly not dedicating my apples to yours, we are just using a common term independently. I suppose the same holds true for London's Metropolitan Line and Paris's metro.
Your analogy is critically flawed as it approaches the subject without illustrating the proper facts. What you could say though is:

I create the apple and make the sign to represent the apple. On the other side of the world a few decades after the first apple (which so happens to have gained worldwide recognition), someone else decides to create their own apple but names their apple and sign after the first apple.

This sort of thing isn't new to humanity - its been done for centuries with street names and station names to this date can be named in honour of a person, monument or relic. You would be right if the Metropolitan Railway was not the first underground railway. Yet it was and that is where the idea from metro and the Paris Metro's original name, ie Metropolitan Railway (then shortered to metro and then used around the world) originated from. I can only presume that your lack of knowing this is due to a lack of knowledge of rail systems?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Falbubaz
the problem here seems to be as follow: 'London should be the best, London should be the first in every matter, the whole world is copping all ideas from London, and the rest of the world is nothing worth, the only thing that counts is LONDON!!!'

if the things are so, then sory for that, how dare we, insulting the holy place - London

from my part I apologise
from that moment London will be always in my haert, always in my mind
let's forget all things that do not come from that fine place, we'll move to London and will forget our places. 'coz it's stupid to live in other places that are not as so good as London is.
sorry, i have to go, to get my ticket to London
I think its safe to say that you have serious problems regarding London as none of that has been stated. No one here other than yourself indicated or said 'London should be the best', 'London should the first in every matter' or that 'the whole world is copying all ideas from London'. These are all fabrications from your seriously warped mind. Now I'm unsure why on earth you have such a chip on your shoulder about London (I suspect that you've never even been there), but your attitude (possibly of the same age as your avatar) of fabricating information as well as an all out attack on a rail network won't be tolerated and especially so when your first post in this thread was to attack a mod who so happens to works on the tube.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 12:40 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
... or that 'the whole world is copying all ideas from London' ...
Heck they aren't even coping...
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Old January 19th, 2006, 03:06 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
I did a 5minute search on wikipedia however, and found this on the "metro" page:
Quote:
The first line of the Paris Metro opened in 1900. Its full name was the Chemin de Fer Métropolitain, a direct translation into French of London's Metropolitan Railway. The name was shortened to métro, and many other languages have since borrowed this word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro

Feel free to search yourself. There are plenty of references. Nick wasn't making this up.
It's not the first line of the Paris metro which was named "chemin de fer metropolitan" but the whole network. The company managing the network was indeed called than "Chemin de fer Metropolitan de Paris" (CMP). It doesn't change much but I just say for the sake of accuracy.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 03:47 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
There are many lines around Japan that have higher frequencies and capacities than most metro lines in the world.... that doesn't automatically make them a metro line.
Of course but I doubt those Japanese lines are operated in a single urban area.

Quote:
The RER is more suburban than metro simply because it resides outside the city proper and in the periphery and metro area surrounding the City of Paris! It has similarities with metro services, but so do many other lines around the world...that doesn't make them metro services though!
You know well that the city of Paris represents a tiny portion of the urban area. Paris represents only 20% of the population of its urban area. The Greater London represents 90% of the population of its urban area.

Suburbs as I see them are about housings instead of appartment buildings. There are almost no houses in the administrative boundaries of Paris. Even the near suburbs have the majority of their population living in appartment buildings rather than in houses. La Défense is built outside the city of Paris in the middle of an area, the Hauts-de-Seine department, which have a higher population density than the center of London.

The Underground is a predominantly suburban network, and administrative boundaries don't change much about this. But actually I don't know any metros in the world which aren't predominantly suburban, outside of course Paris and maybe New York City.

By the way, only the lines C and D leaves the urban area in their southern limits. All the other lines remain in the urban area. The RER is a hybrid system between metro and suburban rails. Lines A and B are definitly closer to the metro than to suburban rails, I would say the opposite for the lines C and D. I guess that's because of the companies managing them (The metro company in the case of the lines A and B ; the rail company in the case of lines C and D). But that doesn't change the fact that over all, the RER network is a hybrid which cannot be categorized as a simple suburban rail network as it's a lot more than that.

Quote:
I would have though that its name hinted towards that.
When the RER has been planned in the 60's, it's first name was "métro express régional" (Regional express metro). It became "réseau express régional" (Regional express network) when it's been decided to build several lines and hence making of it a network.

"Regional" by the way doesn't apply to the Ile-de-France region as there were no regions in France in the 60's. "Regional" meant "of the région parisienne". The région parisienne is the common way to designate Paris urban area.

Quote:
Essentially it wasn't, but back then the 'tube' didn't exist and the underground lines that did exist were in what was then London. The tube lines didn't come around until the deep level lines and then the expansion to Greater London practically formulated its boundaries.
The Greater London has been created in 1963, deep tube lines existed since a while then. My purpose isn't to say that the Underground isn't a subway but simply to say that administrative boundaries mean nothing.

Quote:
If you mean can you use travelcards: yes - I travel from Portsmouth to Bishop's Stortford via London using the tube on a frequent basis using the same ticket. Yet the Portsmouth Direct Line and West Anglia Main Line are not metro lines!

There was a thread on here where there was talk about Thameslink being comparable to the RER lines. I did some work & a few calculations and the average frequency across the network for Thameslink and RER lines D + E worked out showing:

RER Line E - 4.619
Thameslink - 4.607
RER Line D - 3.979

Comparable frequencies as you can see, while the completition of Thameslink 2000, Thameslink frequencies will be as high as those on the RER lines A + B, while Crossrail which should see building work start soon will have higher frequencies than Thameslink and any RER line. I'd still consider Thameslink and Crossrail as suburban services though, because that is where the majority of their services and traffic originate from and this is the same for the RER lines!
The RER E isn't completed yet as it's planned to extend it through La Défense. About the line D, it is the least efficient line of the network. The train frequencies is limited by the fact the line D shares common tracks with the line B between Gare du Nord and Châtelet. As that tunnel belongs to the RATP and the line B is RATP, the line D, which is SNCF, isn't prioritary and hence its traffic is limited. The line D will most likely be severely re-made in the coming years.

Thameslink is more similar to the S-Bahn we can find a bit everywhere in Germany than to the RER.

Quote:
Yet you can't say the RER is similar to the London Underground because the London Underground isn't a suburban rail service - its a city proper heavy rail service like the Paris Metro is. Hell some of the RER rolling stock is double decker - that isn't what metro rolling stock is, but longer regional services which is what the RER is like. Now like I said, if you have problems with the city proper boundary definitions of the City of Paris then take it up with them.
The RER isn't less suburban than the Underground. I really wonder where you want to go in this as what you say makes no sense.

I'm not saying that the Underground isn't a metro, simply that the RER have many aspects of a metro network... but once again, the RER is a hybrid, and must be accepted as such.

Last edited by Metropolitan; January 19th, 2006 at 05:18 PM.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 03:56 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Now, I have to ask myself, why are you insisting that Nick is wrong here?
ok... "dedicated" was probably the wrong word, but the Paris metro was certainly named after the metropolitan railway that started the London Underground.

I have read this many times and seen it on a couple of TV documentary's as well.

...

There are plenty of references. Nick wasn't making this up.
I wasn't insisting that Nick was wrong, I was just assuming that Nick misunderstood something. I just wanted to hear what you just wrote -- that there are references. Thanks for it.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 04:04 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitxofo
Hey guys:
How about talking on world metros signs again?

Also you can post photos of your signs system!
Why don't you post signs of your city's signs

I like BCN signs! Specially those big squar ones with "L 3" on it for example at Montbau station.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #112
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Sofia subway









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Old January 19th, 2006, 04:44 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
Yet there is the problem of confusion over numbers, as afterall words can be associated with something more easily than a number can. ... its getting tiring
You're tiring me, too, it's really hard work with you (or you just want to make me crazy ). Then please explain to me why "" should be easier to recognize and to remember than "7" for someone not used to Russian, or why "" should be easier than "12" for someone not used to Japanese!!! I also love those line names, but numbers are a good deal more user friendly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
Your analogy is critically flawed as it approaches the subject without illustrating the proper facts. What you could say though is:

I create the apple and make the sign to represent the apple. On the other side of the world a few decades after the first apple (which so happens to have gained worldwide recognition), someone else decides to create their own apple but names their apple and sign after the first apple.
Not quite, because "metropolitan" is an ancient romanic word that is used in English as well as in French and many other languages. It means something like "belonging to the city". And what is more obvious than calling a railway that leads through a city "a city railway" (=metropolitan railway)?

It may be true that Paris dedicated its metro to London's line but telling that the names are the same is no evidence. References are necessary, as I wrote above. (Wikipedia is not very trustworthy, by the way.)

Last edited by micro; January 19th, 2006 at 04:56 PM.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 05:44 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
Of course but I doubt those Japanese lines are operated in a single urban area.
What like Tokyo isn't a large enough urban area? The RER lines though do not operate just in the urban area around the City of Paris, they operate in the metro area surrounding the urban area!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
You know well that the city of Paris represents a tiny portion of the urban area. Paris represents only 20% of the population of its urban area. The Greater London represents 90% of the population of its urban area.
And? The RER extends well beyond the urban area of Paris! Its not like the RER is just an urban service - its a service that runs through the metro area - just like Thameslink and a whole bunch of other lines around the world. If you have problems with the city proper definition of Paris you should talk to the Paris authorities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
Suburbs as I see them are about housings instead of appartment buildings. There are almost no houses in the administrative boundaries of Paris. Even the near suburbs have the majority of their population living in appartment buildings rather than in houses. La Défense is built outside the city of Paris in the middle of an area, the Hauts-de-Seine department, which have a higher population density than the center of London.
Well thats a flawed concept as many cities have town houses instead of apartment buildings. Vast swathes of London are either high density terrace housing or multi-storey town houses: that doesn;'t mean London is a suburb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
The Underground is a predominantly suburban network, and administrative boundaries don't change much about this. But actually I don't know any metros in the world which aren't predominantly suburban, outside of course Paris and maybe New York City.
If the London Underground is a suburban rail service then the RER is a metro area rail service and not a metro service!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
By the way, only the lines C and D leaves the urban area in their southern limits. All the other lines remain in the urban area. The RER is a hybrid system between metro and suburban rails. Lines A and B are definitly closer to the metro than to suburban rails, I would say the opposite for the lines C and D. I guess that's because of the companies managing them (The metro company in the case of the lines A and B ; the rail company in the case of lines C and D). But that doesn't change the fact that over all, the RER network is a hybrid which cannot be categorized as a simple suburban rail network as it's a lot more than that.
What a pity - that still makes the RER a metro area network! Also if the London underground is a suburban rail service as you suggest, then that makes the RER either a suburban or metro area heavy rail network - not a metro.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
When the RER has been planned in the 60's, it's first name was "métro express régional" (Regional express metro). It became "réseau express régional" (Regional express network) when it's been decided to build several lines and hence making of it a network.
Unfortunately it operates in the metro area much like various other lines around the world including Thameslink...that doesn't make them a metro though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
"Regional" by the way doesn't apply to the Ile-de-France region as there were no regions in France in the 60's. "Regional" meant "of the région parisienne". The région parisienne is the common way to designate Paris urban area.
Except the services now run out of the urban area so that doesn't make them metro services but if anything suburban/trans regional commuter trains.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
The Greater London has been created in 1963, deep tube lines existed since a while then. My purpose isn't to say that the Underground isn't a subway but simply to say that administrative boundaries mean nothing.
No need to repeat what I am saying! Doesn't change anything though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
The RER E isn't completed yet as it still stops inside Paris. About the line D, it is the least efficient line of the network. The train frequencies is limited by the fact the line D shares common tracks with the line B between Gare du Nord and Châtelet. As that tunnel belongs to the RATP and the line B is RATP, the line D, which is SNCF, isn't prioritary and hence its traffic is limited. The line D will most likely be severely re-made in the coming years.
Thameslink isn't completed yet either. When Thameslink 2000 is completed though, frequencies will be comparable to the original RER lines. Crossrail will boast frequencies greater than any RER line as well as Thameslink.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan
Thameslink is more similar to the S-Bahn we can find a bit everywhere in Germany than to the RER.

The RER isn't less suburban than the Underground. I really wonder where you want to go in this as what you say makes no sense.

I'm not saying that the Underground isn't a metro, simply that the RER have many aspects of a metro network... but once again, the RER is a hybrid, and must be accepted as such.
Thameslink is very similar to the RER because it shares roughly the same frequencies, as many interchanges with metro services and is a service that is predominantly suburban and metro area.

The RER is less suburban than the Underground when it originates outside the urban area quite clearly.

Like I said before, the RER is more like a suburban/trans-regional commuter train service.




Quote:
Originally Posted by micro
I wasn't insisting that Nick was wrong, I was just assuming that Nick misunderstood something. I just wanted to hear what you just wrote -- that there are references. Thanks for it.
Yes of course....


Quote:
Originally Posted by micro
You're tiring me, too, it's really hard work with you (or you just want to make me crazy ). Then please explain to me why "" should be easier to recognize and to remember than "7" for someone not used to Russian, or why "" should be easier than "12" for someone not used to Japanese!!! I also love those line names, but numbers are a good deal more user friendly.
Like I said, numbers might be more recognisable at first but its easier to get confused with numbers simply because they can't be associated with something physical (unless associated with road numbers like in the US) and are more likely to be forgotten - hence why we have graphs and charts to show numbers because its easier to associate with. The same can be said with names. I should point out though that we were talking in reference to the London Underground with its english (the worlds only universal language) titles, not foreign named lines and the like which is a totally different matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by micro
Not quite, because "metropolitan" is an ancient romanic word that is used in English as well as in French and many other languages. It means something like "belonging to the city". And what is more obvious than calling a railway that leads through a city "a city railway" (=metropolitan railway)?

It may be true that Paris dedicated its metro to London's line but telling that the names are the same is no evidence. References are necessary, as I wrote above. (Wikipedia is not very trustworthy, by the way.)
I wasn't suggesting the name 'metropolitan' was invented by the beginnings of the London Underground like you seem to be getting confused over. The 'apple' in the analogy was the Metropolitan Railway, not the word metropolitan. You are though projecting this image as if you can't take it that the original engineers behind the Paris Metro somehow named their network after the original Metropolitan Railway. It also as if your suggesting that somehow the name somehow cropped up and that its not coincidental that the Paris Metro's original name was Metropolitan Railway - a railway built close to 40 years earlier.

Wikipedia is a reasonable source and was recently stated as being on-par with the Encyclopedia Britannica. Let me guess, if I build a tower that shares many characteristics with the Eiffel Tower and name it the Eiffel Tower - it would be obvious using your knowledge that its totally unrelated. That there is no connection whatsoever?
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Old January 19th, 2006, 06:29 PM   #115
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@Nick-Taylor :

Once again I repeat a word you don't seem to understand : The RER is a HYBRID between a metro and suburban rails. It is fully part of the metro network and it's also based partly in suburban railways.

I won't discuss more with you as that's getting totally pointless.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 07:45 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
...These are all fabrications from your seriously warped mind. Now I'm unsure why on earth you have such a chip on your shoulder about London (I suspect that you've never even been there), but your attitude (possibly of the same age as your avatar) of fabricating information as well as an all out attack on a rail network won't be tolerated and especially so when your first post in this thread was to attack a mod who so happens to works on the tube.
this is a fabrication from your mind, too, but, it doesn't matter.
you couldn't be the new Sherlock Holmes or so, 'coz your suspections are totally wrong. i was in London last summer i after all that what i've heard about that city i was negatively surprised. it's maybe because i came directly from Paris and i wanted to see something at least as good as Paris is, but what i saw, was a city - i confess very interesting, but not as beautiful as i expected it to be - just quite 'normal' in the centre and awfull in the suburbs.
the only place that i could call 'good' or 'beautiful' was Kensington, so it's all lie of the 'wonderful London'

the subway system itself was better as i expected, but the signs and the line names with 1001 branches of one 'line' are just something without any sense for the person, who comes there knowing other metros. this system is proudly called the first in the world (and that's true) but also the best (just 'coz it's the first one) - regarding - 'the schematic maps, that the whole wolrd have taken from London' and the best 'unique font' made extra for the london tube and so on. it's also - as mentioned above not only by me - a system with the confusing signs -

all i was trying to say was just -stop to gloryfie London and it's metro system.
it's cute, but not the only one. there are better

every person can say here in this forum: my system is cute, i like the signs in subway of my town, but pliiiiiz don't say - this one is the best, that is the only worth of glory and so on. it's best for u, but do not enforce us to say 'oh yes, u'r system is really the best'

back to the subject of this thread

i like very much german metro signs
this is tube sign from Munich/Muenchen


lrt sign from Munich/Muenchen


it's very effective U stand for underground and S for lrt/suburban rail
U3

U6


and sometjhing from Berlin (from the off.site)


the paris signs are also 'ok' for me, there are some examples in this thread above
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Last edited by Falubaz; January 19th, 2006 at 07:53 PM.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 08:47 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz
and something from Berlin (from the off.site)
Do you know where we can find all individual line maps such as this one ?

I should open a thread about individual line maps and about their designs.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:05 PM   #118
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sure
this is the official site of Berlin U-Bahn and other transports
www.bvg.de
then on the left u have
1. '----> 'Fahrplan, Linien und Karten'
2. '----> 'Verkehrsmittel und Linien'
3. '----> 'U-Bahn'
4. '----> here u have all berlin metro lines such as 'U-Bahnlinie U1'
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₪₪₪[Świat] „Przebłyski pamięci”₪₪₪Moja Ameryka - nie tylko Stany

Last edited by Falubaz; January 19th, 2006 at 09:12 PM.
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Old January 19th, 2006, 09:15 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picassoborseli
Why don't you post signs of your city's signs

I like BCN signs! Specially those big squar ones with "L 3" on it for example at Montbau station.
Because I haven't got Internet at home 40 days ago, my line is out of order...
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Old January 20th, 2006, 05:02 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
Like I said, numbers might be more recognisable at first
I think you didn't say this before but you seem to be getting my point. Maybe we can settle this argument soon


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
I should point out though that we were talking in reference to the London Underground with its english (the worlds only universal language) titles, not foreign named lines and the like which is a totally different matter.
I was talking about the general problem of line names as I experienced it on my journeys. Also in London it would have been easier for me if they would use line numbers. It took many days to get used to the names.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
I wasn't suggesting the name 'metropolitan' was invented by the beginnings of the London Underground like you seem to be getting confused over. The 'apple' in the analogy was the Metropolitan Railway, not the word metropolitan.
Neither 'metropolitan' nor 'railway' are unique names but fairly obvious words for describing the things under discussion. So the combination of both isn't very creative either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-taylor
Wikipedia is a reasonable source and was recently stated as being on-par with the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Yes, by Wikipedia's creator Jimmy Wales. The articles in Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, so errors can be introduced easily, and it can take minutes to months before someone else notices and corrects the error. If someone adds vague assumptions or rumors it may never get noticed. Wikipedia is a great thing and I oftzen use it as a starting point but it cannot be used as a reference source for something like a diploma thesis. I wouldn't bet on anything found in Wikipedia because nothing persists.
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