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View Poll Results: I'd like our new European Nation to be like:...
Austria 11 6.43%
Belgium 4 2.34%
France 10 5.85%
Germany 51 29.82%
Netherlands 41 23.98%
Italy 8 4.68%
Spain 11 6.43%
Sweden 8 4.68%
United States 11 6.43%
Portugal 8 4.68%
Poland 21 12.28%
Czech Republic 11 6.43%
Australia 4 2.34%
Norway 7 4.09%
Switzerland 11 6.43%
Other 14 8.19%
I want a whole new system 13 7.60%
I want a combination of countries. (explain which ones) 20 11.70%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 30th, 2016, 01:57 AM   #21
Kanadzie
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that's something that is sorely lacking in EU countries, right turn on red (or left turn on red in RHD countries and on one-way streets). I don't know why not more popular, but East Germany (!) had it (maybe the only 'freedom' benefit there?) It is a proven measure (40+ years already) that saves fuel, reduces pollution and congestion, and does not have negative impacts on road safety.

Another thing that would be nice is cardinal directions on road signs... but I guess both points are too American

---
The Aussie road signs are pretty strange at first sight... they look like British signs but with American typeface
Almost like how the Dutch signs look like German but with American typefaces (the NL signs are really attractive IMO)
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Old January 30th, 2016, 11:17 AM   #22
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United States or United Kingdom? I'd prefer the latter, combined with the Danish and Dutch (these three are quite similar in layout)
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Old January 30th, 2016, 11:41 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
that's something that is sorely lacking in EU countries, right turn on red (or left turn on red in RHD countries and on one-way streets). I don't know why not more popular, but East Germany (!) had it (maybe the only 'freedom' benefit there?) It is a proven measure (40+ years already) that saves fuel, reduces pollution and congestion, and does not have negative impacts on road safety.
Right on red does place pedestrians in a more exposed position. This impact on road safety is also recognised in the US. While the States are generally open to right on red, it will often be prohibited because of pedestrian risks or other factors. Europe has always worked the other way around: in principle not, but allowed in specific cases. Of course this leaves a lot less permissions in Europe than you have in the US. But here other factors could play a role too: stronger suburbanisation in the USA and into urban sprawl where car is king, the grid patterns of US cities, roundabouts in Europe etc. In Europe, the positive impact on congestion/pollution could also be limited by the lack of wiiiiide urban boulevards where you could have a free-flowing right turn lane.

Quote:
Another thing that would be nice is cardinal directions on road signs...
This is something that I would definitely favour. But where American intersections are often ONLY signposted with the road numbers and cardinal directions, I would like to introduce this as an ADD-ON to the destinations as signposted.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 12:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I reject the premise of this ("Europe is now one country"). I think the Union is going to break up soon.

For what reason the EU will be breaking up soon? Brief explanation is needed.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 12:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
that's something that is sorely lacking in EU countries, right turn on red (or left turn on red in RHD countries and on one-way streets). I don't know why not more popular, but East Germany (!) had it (maybe the only 'freedom' benefit there?) It is a proven measure (40+ years already) that saves fuel, reduces pollution and congestion, and does not have negative impacts on road safety.
As a rule you cannot turn right on red in Estonia but there are ways to allow it.

One way is physically seprating the lanes going straight from the right turn like this. This is very often used in Estonia but usually there's a separate turning lane. Examples: 1,2,3

The other option is having a separate green arrow which allows you to move in the direction of the arrow but you don't have right of way like here. There are not many places like this, though, and pedestrians can't cross the street at that time (so you might as well have a protected turn there).

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; January 30th, 2016 at 12:54 PM.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 01:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEE2 View Post
For what reason the EU will be breaking up soon? Brief explanation is needed.
That's not the point of this thread, nor is the right place to discuss political issues.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 01:10 PM   #27
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Germany and The Netherlands are in the lead at the moment. Doesn't it bother people that The Netherlands uses one colour only for all its signs?
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Old January 30th, 2016, 03:29 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
right turn on red. I don't know why not more popular, but East Germany (!) had it
Wrong. Eastern Germany still has it and it applies to whole Germany now. It's not a generally allowed but at junctions with "green arrow" sign.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 06:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Right on red does place pedestrians in a more exposed position. This impact on road safety is also recognised in the US. While the States are generally open to right on red, it will often be prohibited because of pedestrian risks or other factors. Europe has always worked the other way around: in principle not, but allowed in specific cases. Of course this leaves a lot less permissions in Europe than you have in the US. But here other factors could play a role too: stronger suburbanisation in the USA and into urban sprawl where car is king, the grid patterns of US cities, roundabouts in Europe etc..
I think it is interesting to consider though - for example one argument you hear commonly against roundabouts in particular in the US is the "risk to pedestrians" Logically the situation is essentially the same - traffic enters the intersection looking left and forgets to look at the pedestrian on the right...
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
...

This is something that I would definitely favour. But where American intersections are often ONLY signposted with the road numbers and cardinal directions, I would like to introduce this as an ADD-ON to the destinations as signposted.
Yep. (And we, as I've said many times, make silly and inconsistent "control city" choices - I don't even like the term - and don't give enough of them.)
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Old January 30th, 2016, 08:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Maximus View Post
Germany and The Netherlands are in the lead at the moment. Doesn't it bother people that The Netherlands uses one colour only for all its signs?
Doesn't bother me. :-)
Being used to directional signage that's entirely in green.

The mix of blue, white and green in France or Britain is meaningless to people from countries that don't do that. And to me at least looks messy. (It looked random too, until I understood what the color choices meant.)
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Old January 31st, 2016, 12:38 AM   #32
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I agree, it doesn't really matter which colour the signs are. Directional signage should always point you to your destination along the preferred route. It doesn't really matter if that route is a motorway, 1x2 lane expressway or a winding contry road. Your goal is to reach your destination after all.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 11:05 AM   #33
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And in the Dutch system important roads (highways = red and regional roads = yellow) have their own colour, so the information about the road system is sort of available.

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Old January 31st, 2016, 11:24 AM   #34
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Ok, I thought about the question...

I don't think that it's necessary to have an unique "European Highway Code". The countries' federal highway codes are different but I think there's not a perfect system which could be applied to all countries.

I usually don't care too much about things like this but according to my experience, the German and Dutch system are similar and I'm used to it. That's why I prefer these systems but I don't vote for them to be applied to whole Europe.

I like the US "East"/"West" signs and I think they are good for US but I think it does not match to countries like Germany or the Netherlands. I don't like some details of the Austrian, Romanian and Italian systems but I have no clear opinion about the other systems - mostly due to lack of experience especially because today's navigation is based on GPS.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 02:03 PM   #35
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In my opinion the Croatian system is the best in EU. It has clear signage and informations. Germany e.g. has a bad signing of cities. You can't be sure which one is signed on the next occassion. Austria e.g. is very confusing.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 03:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnequalSine
in the Dutch system important roads (highways = red and regional roads = yellow) have their own colour, so the information about the road system is sort of available.
This becomes helpful only when you are on the direct approach of a numbered road. One of the things that I like most about the use of different colours is how you can drive somewhere in the middle of town and then see the directions to the motorway (i.e. main roads out) standing out in a patch with a different colour. The same applies when you are driving somewhere in the province, looking for the main routes out. In countries like Germany, France, the UK and most others in Europe, the coloured patch will highlight the destination that a lot of motorists unfamiliar in the area will be keen to know. In the Netherlands, these destinations are somewhere in the middle of local destinations (sometimes signposted as a plain text road number, sometimes as Ring, sometimes as the control cities of the motorway with a bracketed road number, sometimes as the control cities of the motorway without any addition), in the same white-on-blue as all the rest.

This is definitely not the end of the World, and as Penn's Woods already mentioned, let's not forget that the US and all those countries with MUTCD-based signage are single colour too. But if I could start from scratch in any given country, I would use two colours. In fact, the Dutch experimented with "freeway green" in the early 1970s. While the experiment was well received, it was discontinued as a result of cost considerations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH
I like the US "East"/"West" signs and I think they are good for US but I think it does not match to countries like Germany or the Netherlands.
Most German and Dutch road numbers have one general bearing, and it is usually straightforward to attribute one of the four cardinal directions to that bearing. You do not need the perfect grid pattern of the US Midwest to signpost cardinal dieections. In the specific case of Germany: the motorway numbering was designed as a grid and on the basis of the general direction, so why not actually introduce it? In both Germany and the Netherlands, the number of non-ringroad motorways that actually change direction is pretty small. You can deal with road like the German A3 and the Dutch A7 creatively and just take the straightforward approach for all the rest.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 03:31 PM   #37
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But the cardinal directions are not signed at all. For instance, Munich and Nuremberg are signed where you can enter the German A9 instead of North and South.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 04:47 PM   #38
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UK missing from the voting list but we have a picture of the M25 London
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Old January 31st, 2016, 04:53 PM   #39
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But the cardinal directions are not signed at all. For instance, Munich and Nuremberg are signed where you can enter the German A9 instead of North and South.
I know (leaving aside some signs in Köln guiding you from the city centre to the main motorways). But wasn't the discussion about whether they could/should be added on Dutch and German signs?
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Old January 31st, 2016, 05:03 PM   #40
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UK missing from the voting list but we have a picture of the M25 London
Yes, I forgot about that. Sorry...
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