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View Poll Results: I'd like our new European Nation to be like:...
Austria 11 6.43%
Belgium 4 2.34%
France 10 5.85%
Germany 51 29.82%
Netherlands 41 23.98%
Italy 8 4.68%
Spain 11 6.43%
Sweden 8 4.68%
United States 11 6.43%
Portugal 8 4.68%
Poland 21 12.28%
Czech Republic 11 6.43%
Australia 4 2.34%
Norway 7 4.09%
Switzerland 11 6.43%
Other 14 8.19%
I want a whole new system 13 7.60%
I want a combination of countries. (explain which ones) 20 11.70%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 8th, 2016, 02:00 AM   #81
Kanadzie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr71 View Post
I always use E system on long distance trips. I have never encountered any major problems with it, apart from intermittent E-routes signage in some countries, such as Germany, for example. National roads' numbers are of secondary and rather auxiliary importance to me (still have in mind foreign long journeys).
My GPS (google maps) was always pushing only E-route numbers when I was driving through Poland. I found it almost useless as DK-roads had the E-number signed very rarely (but, A and S roads had them everywhere). I was really annoyed at the GPS since I couldn't figure out how to switch it to tell me the DK-number...
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Old March 8th, 2016, 04:14 AM   #82
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United States of Europe?

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Old March 8th, 2016, 10:20 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
My GPS (google maps) was always pushing only E-route numbers when I was driving through Poland. I found it almost useless as DK-roads had the E-number signed very rarely (but, A and S roads had them everywhere). I was really annoyed at the GPS since I couldn't figure out how to switch it to tell me the DK-number...
That's true, on DK roads "E" number usually appears on distance signs. But driving in Poland, considering this country as a final destination, I'd rather called 'local trip' or 'local set of trips', not a long distance journey. Let me briefly explain what I actually mean: when I take Calais - Bielsko-Biała route I have several option to chose. Most obvious, however not shortest would be E40+E75, then combination of E40,E34, E30, E36, E40 and E75 again. There is also E40, E34 + German motorways A40, A44,A7, A38, A14 and A4 (E40) + E40 and E75 in Poland. There, obviously, exists some more combinations. When I know numbers of main corridors I will be using, I simply match national roads to them and start my trip. Btw, I do not use sat-nav of any sort - I do use maps only.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 01:21 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
S-x expressways exist in Austria and Poland, but not in Germany, where expressway are numbered with B like other federal roads (Bundestrassen).
That's why I wrote "made-over". Poland and Austria though have only two categories of ordinary roads, which isn't enough for a big country.
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Old March 28th, 2016, 01:09 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metred View Post
I honestly believe the Spanish system to be the superior one, but I might be biased.



White letters on blue background for motorways, black letters on white background for the rest.
It's similiar with Turkey by font, design, color scheme, and road levelization (Otoyol, European, Devlet (State), and Provincial.).


Dumlupınar Bulvarı - 23.6.15 by Onur Taner, on Flickr


Sivrihisar Interchange by Onur Taner, on Flickr


P4170076 by Onur Taner, on Flickr


P8200334 by Onur Taner, on Flickr


Alarahan by Onur Taner, on Flickr

Though rusted, even looks well designed in rural;
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 07:07 PM   #86
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So, over the last few months I've been working on my favourite combination of European road signs. For I begin, I would like to point out the fact that I'm Dutch and have mostly based my combination on personal experiences. I've always liked the French and German systems, and really disliked the Belgium one (sorry neighbours! ).

My systems is basically a mix between the German, Dutch and French system, and used the font of the Swedish system. It incorporates the difference between local and highways by color labeling (blue background for highways, white background for non-highways), something the Dutch system is lacking. Furthermore I propose a uniform shield for both highways (same as the current German system), and a shield for important, but non-highway roads.

Highway intersections are not numbered, in contrary to the German system, seems a bit of an overkill for me.

Destinations are order from close to further away, but the sorting depends on the most logical flow of reading. If an arrows point up from bellow, the closest goal will be at the bottom and the furthest goal will be at the top. If an arrow is missing the closest goal is at the top.

Really interested to know what you guys think!

General Highway Signage

Arrows are pointed up, as studies have proven this actually increases road capacity. If a lane splits up into two the arrow indicates that situation.







Intersection between highways

First the intersection will be announced at 3km out



Then a general high-level overview of the intersection is presented at 2km distance



At 1500m and closer the actual lanes will be shown [note: icon + english for Toll for the entire European system.]





Regular exit

First announcement at 1500m out with the only the most important destination



At 900m out, any other important destinations are highlighted, such as hospitals, universities, sport stadiums.



At 500m a more detailed view of the destinations and the road are presented



At the actual exit this will be the signage



Area's of interest

Larger area's that are of interest, but can be reached with multiple exits are designated with brown signs. I imagine those will be mostly used for National Parks or large amusement parks




Misc

Announcement for bridges or tunnels in grey:







Again, text in English:

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Old July 2nd, 2017, 07:54 PM   #87
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Too much text
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 10:54 PM   #88
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You shouldn't use capital letters only. A text in capital letters must be read letter by letter, while with capital and lowercase letters you recognize the shape of the words. So reading a capital letters only text is slower.

A thing which definitely should be mentioned here is a system prepared by the users of the Polish SSC section some years ago.

http://www.drogowskazclassic.pl - the website is Polish only, but you will find the examples easily

http://www.drogowskazclassic.pl/drogowskaz_classic.pdf - the documentation

It is based on the Polish signage system, but with many improvements based on other systems in Europe - as the Polish one was very bad (now, we have a new "experimental" one as well, which is much better, although still worse than the SSC one).

It was presented to the government - but which governmental official would admit that some ordinary people "from some weird forum" can do something better than they?

The new "experimental" system applies, at least, some of its features.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 03:07 AM   #89
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Portugal nees a refurbishment on its numbering system: We have stretches of road that can have 3 different numbers
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Old July 6th, 2017, 11:14 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnequalSine View Post
These Tatrex capitals should at least be 40 cm in hight to be readable on a certain distance, probably even bigger.

I deduct that this sign will be 80 m2 big, and the heart-on-heart lanewidth will be appr. 4,90 meter....

Last edited by aswnl; July 6th, 2017 at 11:44 PM.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 12:13 AM   #91
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But why capitals?

Don't use capitals on road signage. It reduces road safety forcing the drivers to focus on a text for a longer time to read it.

I believe the French do it because they want to be different from Germans. But most countries use lowercase letters and this is the proper way.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 11:16 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
... But most countries use lowercase letters and this is the proper way.
I believe the U.S. is now requiring states, and even local governments, to use lower-case on directional signage. For the last few years, Philadelphia, where I live, has been posting street names in lower case when the city replaces signs, without other changes in the format of the signs. (Personally, I don't see the need, at least at city speeds, and I find the all-caps nicer looking on street-name signs. But it could just be because I'm used to them.)
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Old July 8th, 2017, 11:16 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
These Tatrex capitals should at least be 40 cm in hight to be readable on a certain distance, probably even bigger.

I deduct that this sign will be 80 m2 big, and the heart-on-heart lanewidth will be appr. 4,90 meter....
The Dutch may have the best directional signage in Europe. Don't change a thing.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 11:55 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnequalSine View Post
....
Again, text in English:

"Welcome to Germany" would be English.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 01:47 AM   #95
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The question is whether English really should be used on the sign.

I know it's the most popular language used in the EU for international contacts, but... it's not more official in any way than any other language of the EU countries. Actually, it may lose the status of an official EU language in the near future.

And, generally, in each country, the language on the signage is the language of the country. Usually the signs are made in such a way, that somebody not speaking the language may think that he is not allowed to do something that he is actually allowed to do, but never vice versa. Like a "no turning left" sign with a plate with an exception under it. With an exception, but not with anything that would extend the meaning of the sign.

There are exception for this rule. For example, this sign:



does not normally apply to the disabled, but in Poland it's allowed to add a plate saying "Applies also to the disabled". But it's a rare case, caused by the fact that there is no specific "no entry" sign that would apply also to the disabled, except for this one:



which has an additional meaning, so it cannot always be used, and for safety reasons it is sometimes necessary to make it not allowed to enter a street by car also for the disabled.

But taking into account the fact that anyway the language used on the sign is always the language of the country (or the part of the country) it is placed in, it would be also not a problem that there would be "Wilkommen in DEUTSCHLAND" on this sign and not "Welcome to GERMANY". Or an option in two languages - of two countries that border there.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 03:40 AM   #96
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Hear, hear.

I was thinking, as I looked at those sample signs, that I couldn't imagine France willingly putting words like "Toll" and "Fuel" in English only. Cultural diversity is perhaps Europe's biggest asset (at least from the point of view of North America, where there's not much of it). You see all sorts of local-language text on signs in Europe now, even in countries with "obscure" languages like Dutch; people somehow manage to deal with it. (I've driven in the Benelux, and I read Dutch pretty well....)

Although I assume English will remain an official language of the E.U. unless there's an Irexit.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 03:43 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marciomaco View Post
Portugal nees a refurbishment on its numbering system: We have stretches of road that can have 3 different numbers
Take your cue from Spain: Six different colors or so and dozens of prefixes....
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Old July 9th, 2017, 03:48 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by UnequalSine View Post
....Destinations are order from close to further away, but the sorting depends on the most logical flow of reading. If an arrows point up from bellow, the closest goal will be at the bottom and the furthest goal will be at the top. If an arrow is missing the closest goal is at the top....
Regardless of arrow placement, does the human eye ever naturally read a list from the bottom up?
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Old July 9th, 2017, 10:53 AM   #99
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Although I assume English will remain an official language of the E.U. unless there's an Irexit.
Each country in Europe chose one language to be official, and one only: UK chose English, Ireland chose Gaelic. So technically, after Brexit, English should be official in EU no more, unless Ireland switches to English.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 12:09 PM   #100
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Take your cue from Spain: Six different colors or so and dozens of prefixes....
Seven AFAIK (Blue, red, orange, green, yellow, purple and grey)

There must be around 70 different road administrations in Spain, each of which have remit to make their own rules. We're still far from our maximum potential

Anyway, I haven't seen any road in Spain with more than two numbers and it's just for a few km (N-623 and N-627). In other cases one of the routes just "overlaps" the rest. That's precisely why we use so many prefixes - to simplify concurrencies and avoid spurs/loops. E.g. instead of A-12/N-232/N-111 we just call it LO-20.

And not all regions/provinces use all colours and prefixes. For instance, we "only" use five prefixes (AP, A, N, LR, LO) and five colours (Blue, red, orange, green and yellow).

Besides, most people in Spain don't use road numbers to navigate, except maybe the main "A" roads (1 to 9). Otherwise people just look for control cities.
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