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Megatalls Discussions of projects under construction at least 600m/2,000 ft tall.



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Old August 20th, 2017, 10:18 PM   #2401
goodybear
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Let us just remind ourselves the ESB was completed in 1 year and 45 days including the foundation, and that was a full building. And concrete cores can rise up to 4 meters a day, which means that this tower could very well be completed at least externally by 2020. It is Dubai after all. The thing that will probably be the most challenging is spanning the cables and making sure the tower doesn't topple before the cables are attached, but I'm sure engineers will have thought about that as well.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 11:24 PM   #2402
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Wouldn't be surprised if there are temporary cables involved in the construction process until the tower reaches the height for the permanent cables to be attached.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 12:13 AM   #2403
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I surely hope that construction will proceed rapidly.
The sooner I have a good reason to make a 5-day holiday to Dubai...


But as an engineer, I can estimate what enormous works lay ahead.
And the higher, the more slowly it will go.
Even a mere concrete core of 700-800 m is unexplored territory so far.
The enormous cables are unprecedented on buildings. Only some reference can be the taller suspension bridges in the world.
And so on, and so on.


Pity we do not get any direct insight in the official building scenario and drawings...
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Old August 21st, 2017, 01:20 AM   #2404
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How do they hang cables like that... helicopters? Can’t be.... i mean.. how ?
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Old August 21st, 2017, 01:24 AM   #2405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GulfArabia View Post
How do they hang cables like that... helicopters? Can’t be.... i mean.. how ?
there is something wonderfull for constructions called "a crane" , you pull an end of the cable, while the other end will stay on ground.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 10:32 AM   #2406
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Hoisting the cable up will not be the biggest problem.


The cables will all be fixed to the tower at approx. the same level, it seems.
This means that we will be seeing a large array of cables around the tower at this height.


To keep the tower vertical, the pulling force in each cable will no so very high. Load by the cable weight and wind will probably be much higher.
How to fix them to the tower?
And how to fix them to the underground anchor blocks? On each block, 55 cables are pulling...

Last edited by oud-Rotterdammer; August 22nd, 2017 at 05:17 PM.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 04:44 PM   #2407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisky Peak View Post

hocus pocus:
if each cable gets 50 "little cables" or "strands", the middle length of the cables would be ~ 1490 meter.
Wow. But one has to take into account the angle and the curvature/bend of the cables, etc... Anyway, I'm loving this guessing game, keep it coming!
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 01:22 AM   #2408
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I used several posts to estimate once again the middle length and found about 676, 92m. Don't worry it stays very important. However, I may be wrong...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisky Peak View Post
Another fact given by Emaar (on facebook) today:



moon-scope = 10.921.000 meter
x1.5 = 16.381.500 meter

the tower gets 220 cables (4 x 55), according to the model at the mall:



hocus pocus:
if each cable gets 50 "little cables" or "strands", the middle length of the cables would be ~ 1490 meter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emarati2009 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubai_Boy View Post
call me old fashioned , found it easier to write it down and post it here than scroll up and down and type it

(Many thanks Emarati2009 and Dubai_Boy for your old posts and thank you very much Whisky Peak for your calculations, your patience to count the cables and your research)

Essential infos :

- 220 cables
- Moon perimeter = 10 921km
- Total cable strand length = 10 921km X 1,5 = 16 381, 5km
- Total length 110km

16 381, 5km : 220 cables = 74, 4613636364 =/~ 75 strands
16 381, 5km : 220 cables : 110km = 0, 6769214876km =/~ 676, 92m.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 03:42 AM   #2409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oud-Rotterdammer View Post
Hoisting the cable up will not be the biggest problem.


The cables will all be fixed to the tower at approx. the same level, it seems.
This means that we will be seeing a large array of cables around the tower at this height.


To keep the tower vertical, the puling force in each cable will no so very that high. Load by the cable weight and wind will probably much higher.
How to fix them to the tower?
And how to fix them to the underground anchor blocks? On each block, 55 cables are pulling...
Yeah, those cables are going to be a major problem. In a bridge the cables are in constant and stable tension due to gravity. But here if anything goes wrong with the anchor it will very quickly change the tension on some vs others. Wind will also constantly change tension. And those anchors will eventually loosen up, and they will have to be "fixed" again. This building is going to be a maintenance nightmare.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 12:04 PM   #2410
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Emaar Dubai twittered a short Construction update video yesterday. Not sure if it is a real update tho.
https://twitter.com/emaardubai/statu...26829090361344
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Last edited by Scrapy41; August 22nd, 2017 at 12:05 PM. Reason: Sorry, I am unable to embed the video directly. First post :)
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 12:19 PM   #2411
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how many times should you guys post this update before you realise it is the same update posted 10 times now!
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 07:57 AM   #2412
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My guess is that the cables will be woven, strand by strand, just like a suspension bridge, I also don't think that they will be attached to the mast, but run thru it on saddles, so all the hydraulic tensioning will be at ground level, i can only guess how many passes a cable will make through the mast, but the cables can not be attached solid to the mast, if there attached fast to the anchor blocks, there must be an allowance for expansion/contraction of the cables, if they are attached solid to the mast, those connections will be of a "spring loaded"" nature, or hydraulic rams that tension the cables, in the mast, opposing to the wind direction, i also believe that once the mast reaches the cable attachment levels, construction of the mast upward, will be suspended until the cables are completed, or a suitable amount of them are completed, becouse if they are woven as discribed, there will be many temporary cables run to accomplish the work, just like building a suspension bridge
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 01:26 PM   #2413
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Calatrava is making this? Consider yourselves f*cked, good people of Dubai.
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 02:18 PM   #2414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekumenopolis View Post
Calatrava is making this? Consider yourselves f*cked, good people of Dubai.


Apparently maintenance cost is not an issue for them so they should do fine. But I agree, selecting Calatrava is not usually a sound decision financially, just ask any Valencian.
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 05:58 PM   #2415
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Taking a closer look at the model, the cable attachment(s) look like they start at about the 900' to 1000' level, and from that point, anchorages continue upward for at least another 1500' then a few hundred feet to the base of the steel structure of the''habitable'' section, (which i figure is very near the 3000' level) so there will be a small delay at each anchorage, for running the cable over saddle(s) in the open, and allowing the concrete to cure enough time to handle the added load, indeed an interesting aspect of this structure, if the same type of equipment is used here, as in bridge cable laying, i figure the first cable will take 1 to 2 days to complete, until pouring can continue, and as it gets higher, the cables longer, the completion of the last cable could be 4 or 5 days, and the operation stops for every strand splice, numbers of which increase on the way up, also as for the cable abutments at the ground, i have not found in my study of structural engineering, a case where any cable abutment/stays have moved or been displaced, even in an earthquake, (there was a case of a suspension bridge tower displacement, one dropping about 11 feet, (the bridge was under construction, at the beginning of the cable laying phase) due to an underwater landslide below the tower cassion, (the bridge is in Japan,and it happening during the last major earthquake there a few years back) the cable stays on this structure will most likely be a minimum of 20' wide, on a gradual curve or arc of keyed concrete blocks, stretching at least a quarter of a mile, and designed not to move, this structure is going to be something to watch, without question !!!!
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Old August 24th, 2017, 02:16 PM   #2416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leogodoy View Post
Apparently maintenance cost is not an issue for them so they should do fine. But I agree, selecting Calatrava is not usually a sound decision financially, just ask any Valencian.
Considering how iconic and how much of a tourism magnet his projects turn out to be, I say it's a financially sound decision longterm
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Old August 24th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #2417
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One question that always I wanted to ask, what will happen if for some force majeure reason, couple of the cables snapped off, will it be dangerous on the whole structure?

If I wanna rephrase my question, should the structure be able to hold itself straight even without cables?
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Old August 24th, 2017, 03:10 PM   #2418
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. I'm no structural engineer, Gab, but just figuring since it's a relatively thick concrete cylinder, I'd hope that the cables are there for more for acting like the equivalent of a damper / TMD than providing any structural loading support. I'd hope the shaft can hold itself up just fine, depending on how thick the walls are and internal lateral support.

But as Ticon said, yeah I'm really curious how they'll attach / build / and anchor the cables too during construction, along with how much to tension them.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #2419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel900 View Post
One question that always I wanted to ask, what will happen if for some force majeure reason, couple of the cables snapped off, will it be dangerous on the whole structure?

If I wanna rephrase my question, should the structure be able to hold itself straight even without cables?
With just few cables broken, and during good conditions the tower should withhold from snapping

but if just one whole side failed then I suppose the other side could break it as it would be pulling it to its direction. Unless cables will be super light and just for the show off.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #2420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dminer View Post
Considering how iconic and how much of a tourism magnet his projects turn out to be, I say it's a financially sound decision longterm
What's to say it wouldn't still be iconic and attract tourism if they had chosen a different architect?

I am not criticizing this project, I am just discussing Calatrava's track record.
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