daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Megatalls

Megatalls Discussions of projects under construction at least 600m/2,000 ft tall.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 19th, 2016, 05:30 PM   #1241
AP Design
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 510
Likes (Received): 498

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
Question regarding the build. Once they reach the height where the suspension cables will be do you think they will attach them immediately, or will they attach the suspension cables once the tower is roped out?

The reason I ask is will the tower be able to support itself with out the suspension cables right up to topping out? Now if they attach the cables at their height it will be difficult for the cranes to bring up because the cables could cause obstructions.
The cables from the initial design are mostly serving as an element of decoration, because the ones that go to the highest level are too close to the tower to play a significant structural role. But the latest render shows a different cables arrangement, which may have been designed to give it a lateral resistance to the possible dynamic loads (like strong winds, seismic activity, impacts etc.).

As to the compressive loads, a concrete pole could be well above 2km tall with guy wires, but they don't have enough time till 2020 to finish such tower.
__________________

The-Real-Link liked this post
AP Design no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 20th, 2016, 12:34 PM   #1242
DubaiM
Registered User
 
DubaiM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,626
Likes (Received): 4512

Quote:
Originally Posted by AP Design View Post
As to the compressive loads, a concrete pole could be well above 2km tall with guy wires, but they don't have enough time till 2020 to finish such tower.
The nearby airport would not allow a 2km tower to be built there anyway
__________________
''There are 360 degrees, so why stick to one?'' - RIP Zaha Hadid
DubaiM no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2016, 01:18 PM   #1243
germantower
i ♥ NY
 
germantower's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,447
Likes (Received): 1152

I think developing such prestige projects is interesting, because the developed technology to make these projects possible can be used on smaller buildings in various places around the world and maybe make skyscrapers and such cheaper, or create circumstances that tallert owers are possible and feasible.

I was browsing this thread and a design change was mentioned, what exactly was changed? Can someone elaborate please?
__________________
more SHoP less BIG
germantower está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2016, 05:03 PM   #1244
AP Design
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 510
Likes (Received): 498

Quote:
Originally Posted by germantower View Post
I think developing such prestige projects is interesting, because the developed technology to make these projects possible can be used on smaller buildings in various places around the world and maybe make skyscrapers and such cheaper, or create circumstances that taller towers are possible and feasible.
Like what, for example? FRC (fiber-reinforced concrete)? The new types of FRC (UHPC, or RPC) have a compressive strength of up to 29,000 psi, which is way too much for smaller buildings, because it actually means heights of over 7,500 m (sheer tower with no slabs, or tapering tower with slabs).
__________________

germantower liked this post
AP Design no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2016, 05:16 PM   #1245
germantower
i ♥ NY
 
germantower's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,447
Likes (Received): 1152

I didnt know about that. So we already have technologies for towers over 7km + ?
__________________
more SHoP less BIG
germantower está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2016, 09:30 PM   #1246
AP Design
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 510
Likes (Received): 498

That's a theoretical number for such type of concrete, and only when it's represented by a solid column. It means that every square inch of its section will bear over 13 t of load (at its base). But if the tower is tapered, it can be much higher (let's say, up to a dozen of kms - depending on the tapering amount).

All that is very theoretical though, because it's highly impractical to have any usable areas above 550m, and it's very expensive to build it. If we assume a 7,500 m tall project can ever be funded with a phantasmagoric amount (let's say, $100 billion) - how is it going to be used and where?
AP Design no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 03:33 PM   #1247
Kyll.Ing.
Registered User
 
Kyll.Ing.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 1,084
Likes (Received): 3614

Quote:
Originally Posted by germantower View Post
I didnt know about that. So we already have technologies for towers over 7km + ?
More like 3 km or so. 7 km would be the theoretical maximum, build more than that and the column would crumble under its own weight. With the appropriate safety margins to account for variable loads and concrete imperfections, the realistic height is effectively halved.

Additionally, such a tall concrete column would probably be able to carry itself, but I wonder how the ground underneath it would fare. It'd be like trying to balance a screw driver in a bowl of porridge; the tower would sink pretty deeply into the ground.
__________________
Poe's law: You can't impersonate stupidity without somebody mistaking it for the real thing.

Dubai Skyscraper liked this post
Kyll.Ing. no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 04:06 PM   #1248
BinSuroor
Registered User
 
BinSuroor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Dubai
Posts: 242
Likes (Received): 818

__________________
BinSuroor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 04:11 PM   #1249
Gabriel900
Super Mod
 
Gabriel900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dubai, Beirut
Posts: 7,793
Likes (Received): 28969

Wait a minute!! Why does this tower look like it has floors all over it!!!?? Are we gonna get an actual building now
__________________
"The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible" ~ Winston Churchill

DUBAI10000, Emarati2009 liked this post
Gabriel900 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 04:57 PM   #1250
Urban Dave
In Urbanity I Trust
 
Urban Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Urban Area
Posts: 15,100
Likes (Received): 1518

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
Question regarding the build. Once they reach the height where the suspension cables will be do you think they will attach them immediately, or will they attach the suspension cables once the tower is roped out?

The reason I ask is will the tower be able to support itself with out the suspension cables right up to topping out? Now if they attach the cables at their height it will be difficult for the cranes to bring up because the cables could cause obstructions.
Also temporally cables can be used when tower height it's not completed, to secure lower sections of tower until final cables are installed.
Urban Dave no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 06:12 PM   #1251
Burj Khalifa fan
Photographer
 
Burj Khalifa fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,663
Likes (Received): 2579

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel900 View Post
Wait a minute!! Why does this tower look like it has floors all over it!!!?? Are we gonna get an actual building now
i would like to be optimistic but i don't think so
This is just a render so i think it is not accurate. Just like jeddah tower render that has lights in the blocked edges

BTW, i really like the grey color. The tower looks so luxurious
EMAAR never let us down
Burj Khalifa fan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 10:51 PM   #1252
Whisky Peak
Visionary
 
Whisky Peak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 256
Likes (Received): 1275

FUGRO COMPLETES GEOTECHNICAL INVESTIGATION FOR SIGNATURE TOWER IN DUBAI

Fugro has conducted an extensive geotechnical investigation campaign for the iconic new addition to Dubai’s skyline, ‘The Tower at Dubai Creek Harbour.

Fugro was contracted by Emaar Properties for the geotechnical investigation. Because of the height and design of the structure, ground engineering is critical in the programme schedule and foundation design. “We deployed resources and expertise to meet a demanding design programme and to ensure the results of the site investigation were of the highest quality,” explained Peter Brooke, Fugro’s Business Delivery Manager.

The scope of works included over 4,800 metres of triple tube coring to depths of up to 200 metres and 225 in situ pressure meter tests. A full range of standard and specialist geotechnical laboratory testing was undertaken on the recovered core. To complete the campaign, Fugro carried out downhole P and S suspension logging.

This programme represents one of the most comprehensive geotechnical investigations undertaken in the region and the acquired information will be the base for the foundation and piling designs.

http://www.fugro.com/media-centre/ne...tower-in-dubai
__________________
Discover the dreams and visions of Dubai

► ► https://www.facebook.com/visiondubai ◄ ◄
Whisky Peak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 10:56 PM   #1253
Gabriel900
Super Mod
 
Gabriel900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dubai, Beirut
Posts: 7,793
Likes (Received): 28969

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisky Peak View Post
The scope of works included over 4,800 metres of triple tube coring to depths of up to 200 metres and 225 in situ pressure meter tests.
200m?!? is this an indicator of how deep the foundation will go or that's something totally different? Cz if so I'm really scared of how high this tower can end up being
__________________
"The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible" ~ Winston Churchill
Gabriel900 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 11:17 PM   #1254
Whisky Peak
Visionary
 
Whisky Peak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 256
Likes (Received): 1275

They always coring "a little" deeper than the foundation will be. Because they must be sure that the ground is firm / hard and also below is not a "soft layer". I know they reach ~140m for the Burj Khalifa (Source: http://www.geomarc.it/Poulos_&_Bunce_2008.pdf) and ~180m for the Jeddah Tower (Source: http://www.jeaconf.org/UploadedFiles...ch%202015).pdf)

Here the Jeddah Tower as an example:

__________________

Last edited by Whisky Peak; November 22nd, 2016 at 11:42 PM.
Whisky Peak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2016, 11:52 PM   #1255
sort
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 12
Likes (Received): 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel900 View Post
Wait a minute!! Why does this tower look like it has floors all over it!!!?? Are we gonna get an actual building now
because the people who sell "designs" are very different than those who actually have to build them.
__________________
sort no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2016, 05:46 PM   #1256
tim1807
faster than buildings
 
tim1807's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Den Helder
Posts: 10,325
Likes (Received): 5334

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubaiM View Post
The nearby airport would not allow a 2km tower to be built there anyway
Is the airport really an issue here since this site is perpendicular to the runways. :
tim1807 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2016, 06:58 PM   #1257
AP Design
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 510
Likes (Received): 498

Even a tower of BK size would be an issue at Dubai Creek Harbour. And it doesn't really matter if it's 1 or 2 km tall, when it's within 5 km airport proximity.

ESB wasn't even half of this height when it was hit by B-25 in 1945. And despite the incident, another close shave has happened the next year. Given the Dubai fogs density and frequency, anything can happen.
AP Design no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2016, 10:36 PM   #1258
CarlitosPanz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Alicante
Posts: 5
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyll.Ing. View Post
More like 3 km or so. 7 km would be the theoretical maximum, build more than that and the column would crumble under its own weight. With the appropriate safety margins to account for variable loads and concrete imperfections, the realistic height is effectively halved.

Additionally, such a tall concrete column would probably be able to carry itself, but I wonder how the ground underneath it would fare. It'd be like trying to balance a screw driver in a bowl of porridge; the tower would sink pretty deeply into the ground.
The main problem with high rising structures is nor the material neither the ground resistances, but the lateral loads, basically the wind ones.
At this moment, the high resistance materials are able to support several kilometers of its own wheight. In fact, you could build a solid tower with old fashioned steel 25 kilometers high!
The same way, the ground support can be as weak as you like, in theory you can extend the foundations as necessary to support the total load (note that the own weight of the foundation should be also supported).
The real problem is that the lateral forces produce three effects that the structure must solve:
- it works as a corbel, so it must be strong enough to bend vertically without breaking
- for the same reason, it must be able to transmit those loads to earth without knocking over
- as it bends, the vertical loads get out of the structure axis, and that produces a deviated flexion
That's why the tapered and guyed designs are used for high rise structures, because they are more efficient against lateral forces.
The extreme examples are the extremely light structured guyed lattice masts, with the second, up to now, highest structure in world, Warsaw radio mast, 646.4 m (destroyed, oh surprise!, when they were changing the guy-wires).

IMO, this new tower, despite it could be inhabited, because of it's structural design can be considered as a guyed mast.
__________________
CarlitosPanz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2016, 10:36 PM   #1259
Gabriel900
Super Mod
 
Gabriel900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dubai, Beirut
Posts: 7,793
Likes (Received): 28969

Quote:
Originally Posted by AP Design View Post
Given the Dubai fogs density and frequency, anything can happen.
Given the frequency and density? Lol you make it sound like if it's London. And no it's not that bad. Second, you do know fog ain't clouds right? Fog generally forms very close to the ground at very low altitudes, and the building is not even in the runways path so I don't think it's an issue. This is basically nonsense.
__________________
"The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible" ~ Winston Churchill

tim1807 liked this post
Gabriel900 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2016, 03:37 AM   #1260
AP Design
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 510
Likes (Received): 498

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel900 View Post
Given the frequency and density? Lol you make it sound like if it's London. And no it's not that bad. Second, you do know fog ain't clouds right? Fog generally forms very close to the ground at very low altitudes, and the building is not even in the runways path so I don't think it's an issue. This is basically nonsense.
London did not make it to the list of remarkably foggy places. The impression you have originates from the depictions of London in fiction and artworks. The sulfuric "pea soup fogs" was a phenomenon forgotten long time ago.

And in order to be trumping about all the fogs/mists/clouds flavors, you need to find out about the crystal-less stratus clouds. Once you do, you will know what a real nonsense is.
__________________

CactusLord, Focalor, madrasi7777 liked this post
AP Design no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
dubai creek harbour, hypertall, iconic tower, megatall, the tower, the tower at dubai creek

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu