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Old April 24th, 2016, 12:14 AM   #1
Wilderbeast
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DUBLIN | General Urbanism Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catmalojin View Post
Article about the Shelbourne's façade restoration:

Irish Times - Grand Old Lady of St Stephen’s Green unveils her facelift
Seems to look the same as it did before.

Quote:
[Shelbourne was built] when Dublin-born architect John McCurdy remodelled a terrace of five Georgian houses in High Victorian style
And to think this architectural vandal doesn't suffer the same flak that poor old Sam got for the ESB HQ - I guess the lesson is knock them down before they get too old!
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Old April 24th, 2016, 05:42 PM   #2
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Or maybe the lesson is don't build worthless shit that looks 100 times worse than what was replaced. I somehow don't think we'd be discussing knocking it if it was the Guggenheim, or even if it looked like the Shelbourne.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 06:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilderbeast View Post
Seems to look the same as it did before.



And to think this architectural vandal doesn't suffer the same flak that poor old Sam got for the ESB HQ - I guess the lesson is knock them down before they get too old!
Because he replaced what was there with a beautiful building, only decades after the Georgian and Regency periods ended, before architectural conservation entered any kind of mainstream thought. Sam didn't. Sam replaced some beautiful Georgian row houses in a city famed for its Georgian architecture with an architecturally valueless slab (it's in no way a brutalist masterpiece like some of his other work), nearly 200 years after they were built. There's no comparison and it's revisionist to make one.

You could put the damn Exo building on that site and it'd be an improvement.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 09:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimble View Post
Because he replaced what was there with a beautiful building, only decades after the Georgian and Regency periods ended, before architectural conservation entered any kind of mainstream thought. Sam didn't. Sam replaced some beautiful Georgian row houses in a city famed for its Georgian architecture with an architecturally valueless slab (it's in no way a brutalist masterpiece like some of his other work), nearly 200 years after they were built. There's no comparison and it's revisionist to make one.

You could put the damn Exo building on that site and it'd be an improvement.
Dunno. The Shelbourne looks a bit Disney to me...not "beautiful".

And while the ESB HQ was definitely worse than what it replaced it was by no means as bad as the tripe in such as neighbouring Mount Street.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 11:50 PM   #5
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The Shelbourne is a lovely building. Comparing it to the ESB monstrosity is stupid.
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Old April 25th, 2016, 09:40 PM   #6
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The Shelbourne is a lovely building. Comparing it to the ESB monstrosity is stupid.
Since when did matters of taste become matters of intelligence?
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Old April 25th, 2016, 09:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
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The Shelbourne is a lovely building.
I don't think so....capisce?
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Old April 26th, 2016, 02:43 PM   #8
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Since when did matters of taste become matters of intelligence?
It has nothing to do with taste. The ESB building was one of the worst cases of architectural vandalism in Dublin. Absolutely scandalous

The resulting building did not improve the street scape and became a architectural blight.

The same can't be said about the Shelbourne which makes a positive contribution to the street scape and is a fine example of Victorian architecture in a city that lacks much Victorian design.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 03:14 PM   #9
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I can't believe that someone is having a go at the Shelbourne whilst defending the ESB monstrosity! The Shelbourne looks great and they've done a fantastic job restoring it. The ESB is a disgrace and can't have ever looked good.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 04:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveydonnelly View Post
I can't believe that someone is having a go at the Shelbourne whilst defending the ESB monstrosity! The Shelbourne looks great and they've done a fantastic job restoring it. The ESB is a disgrace and can't have ever looked good.
There are three possibilites:
(a) he's a troll
(b) he's a crazy republican extremist, and he thinks the Shelbourne is bad because it was built by the British (even though it wasn't)
(c) he's insane.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 05:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
There are three possibilites:
(a) he's a troll
(b) he's a crazy republican extremist, and he thinks the Shelbourne is bad because it was built by the British (even though it wasn't)
(c) he's insane.
Without passing judgment on the particular individual in question, I would like to point out that one could be all 3 of those things simultaneously.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 11:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveydonnelly View Post
I can't believe that someone is having a go at the Shelbourne whilst defending the ESB monstrosity! The Shelbourne looks great and they've done a fantastic job restoring it. The ESB is a disgrace and can't have ever looked good.
I didn't "defend" the ESB HQ....merely pointed out is was better than some of the Mount St monstrosities.

Regarding the Shelbourne; while Stephen's Green is now tatty - back when the Shelbourne was built what was it like?

Was the introduction of the tasteless tat that is the Shelbourne, like the ESB HQ in the "Georgian mile", the first step in the destruction of a Georgian square?
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Old April 26th, 2016, 11:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enobarbus View Post
There are three possibilites:
(a) he's a troll
(b) he's a crazy republican extremist, and he thinks the Shelbourne is bad because it was built by the British (even though it wasn't)
(c) he's insane.
Hmmm.....all this personal abuse for expressing an opinion you disagree with?

Whatever.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 02:20 PM   #14
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I don't think SSG is "tatty" at all to be honest. There are some problem areas, but 70% of it is in very good shape (ignoring the Luas works). I think LXV is a very welcome addition.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 02:34 PM   #15
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I can't understand SSG being called tatty at all. Maybe that building with the Starbucks on the north edge, but I would imagine most people would consider the rest of the square to be extremely nice.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 03:02 PM   #16
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DUBLIN | Tourism

Generally it's in good nick but the stretch from Shelbourne to Grafton street has gotten tatty though and the Luas works didn't help. A euro store and a couple of
Seventies builds with empty ground level retail contributed to that feeling and there's a lovely building at the corner of Dawson street that desperately needs a paint job. Id also say the stretch between the Firzwilliam Hotel and Harcourt Street has seen better days too. A lot of this will disappear after Luas is completed on the North side and something replaces Dandelion on the West side.
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Old April 29th, 2016, 01:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreudianSlippers View Post
I don't think SSG is "tatty" at all to be honest. There are some problem areas, but 70% of it is in very good shape (ignoring the Luas works). I think LXV is a very welcome addition.
Agreed, it's very well presented on all four corners and on all four sides. There's very little I could describe as tatty - the Scottish Provident building looks a bit dated now but there is a lot worse out there.
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Old April 29th, 2016, 01:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveydonnelly View Post
Generally it's in good nick but the stretch from Shelbourne to Grafton street has gotten tatty though and the Luas works didn't help. A euro store and a couple of
Seventies builds with empty ground level retail contributed to that feeling and there's a lovely building at the corner of Dawson street that desperately needs a paint job. Id also say the stretch between the Firzwilliam Hotel and Harcourt Street has seen better days too. A lot of this will disappear after Luas is completed on the North side and something replaces Dandelion on the West side.
Reluctant to express an opinion for fear of been deemed "stupid", "Republican" (!!), "troll" or whatever....but SSG surrounds are too low relative to the (beautiful) park and the buildings are all over the place.

Canada House (or whatever it is now)?

Much of Kildare St to Grafton St?

The bland rubbish at the Harcourt St junction?

The merde either side of the Unitarian Church?

I guess if you set the bar low enough anything can jump it
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Old April 29th, 2016, 02:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilderbeast View Post
Reluctant to express an opinion for fear of been deemed "stupid", "Republican" (!!), "troll" or whatever....but SSG surrounds are too low relative to the (beautiful) park and the buildings are all over the place.

Canada House (or whatever it is now)?

Much of Kildare St to Grafton St?

The bland rubbish at the Harcourt St junction?

The merde either side of the Unitarian Church?

I guess if you set the bar low enough anything can jump it
I think criticizing SSG is completely off the wall to be honest. At least there aren't crumbling buildings and gaps all over the place. I think it's got a nice variety of architecture which makes is superior to Merrion Square, which is pretty one-dimensional. There are vast swathes of central Dublin that are shabbier looking than post-war Berlin, and this certainly isn't close to being one of them.
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Old April 29th, 2016, 03:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I think criticizing SSG is completely off the wall to be honest. At least there aren't crumbling buildings and gaps all over the place. I think it's got a nice variety of architecture which makes is superior to Merrion Square, which is pretty one-dimensional. There are vast swathes of central Dublin that are shabbier looking than post-war Berlin, and this certainly isn't close to being one of them.
As I said...setting the bar on the ground.

Superior to Merrion Square?
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