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Old August 10th, 2016, 04:24 PM   #1
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The Save LRT2 Thread (aka LRTA-MRT Line 2)

Given the urgency of the LRT2 situation, I created this thread so we can all consolidate our discussions. I will move all posts from the Mass Rapid Transit thread regarding the topic. This is so we can easily link the thread to various stakeholders in government, media, business and so on.

Summary:


Department of Transportation Art Tugade is mulling the dismantling the tracks of MRT2, also known as LRT2, and replacing the train service into a bus rapid transit system. He has been given pie in the sky promises by Francis Yuseco, the CEO of Philtrack which includes stakeholders such as Del Monte Motor Works, Inc. (a bus body manufacturer) that his "Intelligent Trackworks", known throughout the world as Bus Rapid Transit or BRT, will solve Metro Manila's traffic problem using buses that carry a maximum of 200 people. Francis Yuseco has convinced Secretary Tugade to look into testing out his concept on the existing LRT2 guideway, hence requiring the decommissioning and dismantling Metro Manila's youngest and most advanced railway system that serves people from Manila, San Juan, Quezon City and starting next year, Cainta and Masinag.

What is LRT2?

From Wikipedia

Quote:
The Manila Light Rail Transit System Line 2, also known as LRT Line 2, LRT-2, or Megatren, is a rapid transit line in Metro Manila in the Philippines, generally running in an east-west direction along the Radial Road 6 and a portion of the Circumferential Road 1. Although operated by the Light Rail Transit Authority, resulting in its being called "LRT-2", it is actually a heavy rail, rapid transit system owing to its use of electric multiple units instead of the light rail vehicles used in earlier lines and is the only line utilizing such type of system in the country. Envisioned in the 1970s as part of the Metropolitan Manila Strategic Mass Rail Transit Development Plan, the eleven-station, 13.8-kilometer (8.6 mi) line was the third rapid transit line to be built in Metro Manila when it started operations in 2003. It is operated by the Light Rail Transit Authority (LRTA), a government-owned and controlled corporation under the Department of Transportation and Communications (DOTC) under an official development assistance scheme.
Czeon Santos at Flickr


Issue:

Govt mulling over LRT-2 dismantling

Quote:
The Transportation Department said on Friday it is mulling over the conversion of the Light Rail Transit (LRT) Line 2 into a bus rapid transit system similar to those of Hong Kong and Shanghai in China.

“I’m thinking of converting the LRT-2 into a BRT system wherein we will remove the rails. It’s not new, I copied it to Hong Kong and Shanghai. If you put the right buses, if you do the right technology, there can even be more and it’s cheaper,” Transport Secretary Arthur Tugade told reporters.
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SAVE LRT2

"The best solution all over the world, time tested, safe, no pollution, is still the use of the train system." - Ms. Elvira Medina, Nat'l Center for Commuter Safety and Protection

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Last edited by [email protected]; August 16th, 2016 at 10:49 AM.
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Old August 12th, 2016, 06:15 AM   #2
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"Transport Dept. plans to convert LRT-2 to a bus rapid transit system similar to HK & Shanghai bus system."

Source: Twitter @ABSCBNNews

Thoughts?


More pain.

"Tugade: Maybe we can use parts of Philippine National Railway (PNR) for bus rapid transit. We will study that. | via @marcmeru"

Source: Twitter @gmanewsbreaking

Last edited by loveisthekey93; August 12th, 2016 at 08:36 AM.
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Old August 12th, 2016, 06:43 AM   #3
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big NO...

updates: gil puyat station: working na yung new lights sobrang liwanag
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Old August 12th, 2016, 06:44 AM   #4
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That can't be. That won't be. The LRT-2 is working fine. It just needs rehab for those non-working trains. Is it even possible/compatible/feasible to take out the rails and make it an elevated road? I don't think so.
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Old August 12th, 2016, 06:47 AM   #5
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I like the transportation secretary because he's obviously working his ass off just to solve all of these mess that the prev. admin has left. He covers not just the traffic mess and trains/the lack of mass transpo bt also the sea and airports. However, his proposals of a cable car and scrapping LRT-2 is absurd.
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Old August 12th, 2016, 07:10 AM   #6
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LRT-2 is the only modern and most humane transport we got in metro manila, why scrap it? And there's the Masinag extension on-going.
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Old August 12th, 2016, 07:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy2170 View Post
That can't be. That won't be. The MRT-2 is working fine. It just needs rehab for those non-working trains. Is it even possible/compatible/feasible to take out the rails and make it an elevated road? I don't think so.






Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy2170 View Post
I like the transportation secretary because he's obviously working his ass off just to solve all of these mess that the prev. admin has left. He covers not just the traffic mess and trains/the lack of mass transpo bt also the sea and airports. However, his proposals of a cable car and scrapping MRT-2 is absurd.






Quote:
Originally Posted by ronki View Post
MRT-2 is the only modern and most humane transport we got in metro manila, why scrap it? And there's the Masinag extension on-going.
Apparently some "Francis Yuseco Philtrak Ceo" in facebook (yes, search his profile) is the one convincing Sec. Tugade to scrap the MRT2 all in favor of their "local bus system" as the MRT2 daw "favors the oligarchs and is very costly" compared to their Filipino made system which was approved before by then President Ramos for C5 but did not push through due to Asian Financial Crisis.
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Old August 12th, 2016, 09:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transjico View Post
Apparently some "Francis Yuseco Philtrak Ceo" in facebook (yes, search his profile) is the one convincing Sec. Tugade to scrap the MRT2 all in favor of their "local bus system" as the MRT2 daw "favors the oligarchs and is very costly" compared to their Filipino made system which was approved before by then President Ramos for C5 but did not push through due to Asian Financial Crisis.
Sino tong engot na to?
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Old August 12th, 2016, 09:28 AM   #9
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I've googled his name and the company.

He was proposing these stuff even with the previous administration.

He proposed an 'elevated city' in Manila Bay Area where his buses can ply-over and carry people around.

His next proposal was a multi billion pesos open-tunnel system connecting the island regions.

Fishy fishy.
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Old August 12th, 2016, 04:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronki View Post
I've googled his name and the company.

He was proposing these stuff even with the previous administration.

He proposed an 'elevated city' in Manila Bay Area where his buses can ply-over and carry people around.

His next proposal was a multi billion pesos open-tunnel system connecting the island regions.

Fishy fishy.
Even his looks seem fishy

Saw this in facebook, apparently this thing is gaining traction. Might as well we support this too to stop this Francis Yuseco guy from destroying the MRT-2.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...16326085215871
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Old August 12th, 2016, 05:13 PM   #11
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May utak ba yang p***ng i**! YUSECO?? Sinisira mo Mass Transit plan ng LRTA/MRTA. King ina mo!!
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Old August 12th, 2016, 06:12 PM   #12
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I'm surprised that the current secretary entertained this kind of idea. eto na ba ang downside ng "act immediately" at itigil ang puro planning?

mas credible ba yang si yuseco kesa sa jica plans? bakit tinatarget yang lrt2 e ang nagbebreakdown e yung mrt3.

magtayo muna ng brt sa Cebu kesa sa pagpraktisan at gibain yan lrt2 na maayos naman ang takbo.

matagal ng plano yang brt sa c5 ah. parang narinig ko nga yang narevive noong Pnoy Term. bat hindi nya kaya ipush yun kesa sa lrt2 conversion. mas makakaluwag pa sa trapik ng edsa yang brt c5.
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Old August 12th, 2016, 06:20 PM   #13
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They should just extend Line 2 to the west and maybe go south after the pier. Since a completed MOA and Entertainment City will create a lot of traffic. Mas magiging accesible pa ang south sa mga from Rizal/East area.

Kung ano ano iniisip na gagawin eh
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Old August 13th, 2016, 03:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transjico View Post
Apparently some "Francis Yuseco Philtrak Ceo" in facebook (yes, search his profile) is the one convincing Sec. Tugade to scrap the MRT2 all in favor of their "local bus system" as the MRT2 daw "favors the oligarchs and is very costly" compared to their Filipino made system which was approved before by then President Ramos for C5 but did not push through due to Asian Financial Crisis.
Yeah, I noticed that in the Senate hearings and its very sad if this is true. Lets face it, Art Tugade is light years ahead of Joseph Emilio Aguinaldo Abaya but he is NOT perfect. This plan is madness to say the least and I think it would be nearly impossible to convert LRT2 in particular into a BRT guideway for the simple reason that much of it is too narrow for normal BRT buses. Sophisticated guided buses, yes but then it will no longer be "their local bus system".

I do hope when the DOTr studies this crazy proposal, they will agree with us that its just stupid. Don't loose hope guys. I will definitely bring this up with my cousin (who is close to Art) and there is precedence that at the end of the day, stupid ideas don't always go into fruition. Remember EDSA North Transit? Yeah...that proposed stand alone line to connect LRT1 to MRT3? Well they say my extreme rants in the forums somehow convince PGMA to tell the DOTC back then who was pushing for it to f*ck off...
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SAVE LRT2

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Old August 13th, 2016, 04:30 AM   #15
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Okay, here is a more detailed article about the possible LRT2 conversion to BRT. I am still confident this will not happen

DOTr eyes conversion of LRT 2 into BRT line

Quote:
“We are still early in studying phase. There are examples in other parts of the world where railways have been cemented to accommodate two lanes of buses running opposite ways,” she said.

Countries that have rail-replacement bus services include Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States.

“We are still weighing its advantages versus trains, which now burdens us with parts and light rail vehicle acquisitions, and maintenance among others,” Santos said. “We are studying if buses have faster headways, more passengers transported and less cost.”

The DOTr is also studying the possible effects of such a project, including its cost to the government.

“It won’t cost a lot in our superficial knowledge to cement and convert it to a BRT, but we also have to gauge advantages versus trains,” Santos said.

She added that cementing the tracks and deploying dedicated bus services along the overhead rail facility is just one possibility.

“We are also studying putting road on top of track, so if you wish to revert back to track, it’s still there,” the transportation official said.
Here is the devil's advocate in me trying to find reasons why they picked LRT2...

- The Line itself had been underperforming compared to LRT1 and MRT3. Of course, this could change once Masinag is extended

- It is also very expensive to extend on a per km basis compared to the other lines, including MRT7

- It will always have a limited range. Once the Western Extension is built, that's it. And no...extending it eastward to Antipolo will NEVER happen due to geography!

- Unlike LRT1 and MRT3 which could, theoretically get off the shelf trains from any manufacturer, the automated system of the LRT2 trains comes only from Hyundai Rotem so it will always be very difficult and expensive to procur even if ALL legal mumbo jumbo (i.e. through emergency powers) are taken out of the equation.

This is a similar problem that Vancouver's Skytrain faced, and at the end of the day, the government just said f*ck it, we'll just keep buying from Bombardier forever no matter what the cost. Of course, this could change with MRT7 since they will be using the same supplier so it maybe cheaper to go with Hyundai Rotem as a dedicated supplier.


So there is, at the surface, some reasons why they are studying the future feasibility of LRT2. Have it not been extended to Masinag, even I would rethink why is it there at its current form. The line itself is kinda silly at only 13 km, and despite the densely populated nature of its corridor, how could it possibly under perform?

Now feel free to counter my points but do so on a VERY OBJECTIVE manner. No emotional crap and no arguments base on hearsay or self entitlement. Because frankly, I too would want to hear from everyone so that I can also pass on something to some people if you know what I mean....
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SAVE LRT2

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Old August 13th, 2016, 05:02 AM   #16
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Converting it to BRT is already a sign of regress!
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Old August 13th, 2016, 06:28 AM   #17
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In contrary to Tugade's statements, ironically, HK and Shanghai have plans to change the BRT lines to railway.

LRT2 to BRT is indeed backward progress.
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Old August 13th, 2016, 07:11 AM   #18
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LRT 2 trains get full during rush hours. Switching it to BRT will make the problem worse.
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Old August 13th, 2016, 07:24 AM   #19
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that proposal is so backward, not putting into consideration future developments.

heres what I think will add traffic to LRT2 in the future

1. Tutuban Station (west extension)- North Commuter Rail, Sea Port, Divisoria will bring additional load
2. Cubao Station- Araneta Center and adjacent lots are not yet fully develop
3. Pureza Station-the future development in Pandacan can add traffic if connection to Pureza station will be added.
4. Masinag(East Extension)
5. Recto Station- Gentrification will add passengers

IMO, in short term. procurement of new buses and the conversion will add bigger cost than what their subsidy is for LRT2. instead of rolling out other transpo projects from this regime, the funds will be diverted to this new project, limiting the funds that can be spent in REALLY curbing traffic.

well if their study can tell that they can bring back the trains in minimal cost when the volume expands and they can utilize existing infrastructure including the rail and the trains when it will be converted. then I have no objections.

Ang naalala ko ganyan din nangyari sa MRT3 dati. pero ngayon sardinas na. kulang pa sa tren.
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Old August 13th, 2016, 09:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveisthekey93 View Post
In contrary to Tugade's statements, ironically, HK and Shanghai have plans to change the BRT lines to railway.

LRT2 to BRT is indeed backward progress.
HK does not have a BRT system!
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