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Old February 21st, 2007, 11:11 AM   #1301
hkskyline
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Originally Posted by WANCH View Post
Just curious, is the tower right now fully occupied or are most of the floor occupied?
From the SHKP 2005/6 annual report :
http://www.shkp.com/data/investors/r.../7/7_pd_en.pdf



The Group owns a network of 6.8 million square feet of premium office space spreading over various strategic locations in Hong Kong. Overall occupancy remained high over the year and increased rentals were recorded for both renewals and new leases. Offices in IFC in Central are 99 per cent let.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 04:54 AM   #1302
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
From the SHKP 2005/6 annual report :
http://www.shkp.com/data/investors/r.../7/7_pd_en.pdf



The Group owns a network of 6.8 million square feet of premium office space spreading over various strategic locations in Hong Kong. Overall occupancy remained high over the year and increased rentals were recorded for both renewals and new leases. Offices in IFC in Central are 99 per cent let.
That's a pretty good rating but it's still uncertain if the ICC will get the same rate.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 05:19 AM   #1303
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Originally Posted by WANCH View Post
That's a pretty good rating but it's still uncertain if the ICC will get the same rate.
It takes a few years to lease out so much space, and that is dependent on the economy as well. Oftentimes the cycle dips and recovers during the course of planning, construction, and leasing. 2 IFC's leasing history is quite dramatic, having opened during a major recession and now renting at several times the price after just 4 years.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 06:38 AM   #1304
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Originally Posted by jansej View Post
my ranking of 'yellow skin' asia.. lol.. (the only place i went before)

1. hong kong.. best of all
2. Kuala Lumpur.. many nice scrappers and the tallest twin tower..
3. Jakarta, Manila & Bangkok.. huge.. some nice scrapers..
4. Shanghai, Singapore & Shenzhen.. catching up well, clean, futuristic..
5. Tokyo, Seoul & Beijing.. very east asia~~

my hope is that in the future we can rank hanoi, brunei, busan, macau, kota kinabalu, naha, cebu or whatever in the list!~
total agree with your point
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 07:00 AM   #1305
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
It takes a few years to lease out so much space, and that is dependent on the economy as well. Oftentimes the cycle dips and recovers during the course of planning, construction, and leasing. 2 IFC's leasing history is quite dramatic, having opened during a major recession and now renting at several times the price after just 4 years.
Lets just hope HK's economy continues growing.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:03 AM   #1306
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Originally Posted by WANCH View Post
Lets just hope HK's economy continues growing.
It's unrealistic to expect the economy will keep on growing continuously. In fact, if that happens, then a bubble is likely going to form, similar to the one that culminated in the handover of 1997. The subsequent Asian financial crisis knocked the real estate market down hard.

Having a correction once in a while is a normal part of the economic cycle. Timing skyscraper construction around this is very difficult due to the long time frame it takes from proposal to completion.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:39 AM   #1307
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
It's unrealistic to expect the economy will keep on growing continuously. In fact, if that happens, then a bubble is likely going to form, similar to the one that culminated in the handover of 1997. The subsequent Asian financial crisis knocked the real estate market down hard.

Having a correction once in a while is a normal part of the economic cycle. Timing skyscraper construction around this is very difficult due to the long time frame it takes from proposal to completion.
But there are some skyscrapers in HK that were completed during or before the financial crisis struck like Cheung Kong Centre or The Centre.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 08:44 AM   #1308
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But there are some skyscrapers in HK that were completed during or before the financial crisis struck like Cheung Kong Centre or The Centre.
They were planned long before the financial crisis in the last economic cycle. Developers of The Centre had to go through a long expropriation process before the shovels even got to the ground.

When buildings are completed is just a small part of the whole story.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 09:35 AM   #1309
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
They were planned long before the financial crisis in the last economic cycle. Developers of The Centre had to go through a long expropriation process before the shovels even got to the ground.

When buildings are completed is just a small part of the whole story.
I saw the plan of The Centre way back in highschool. I think it was called 9 Jubilee St. at that time. I though that it's not gonna be built but it got completed.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 10:06 AM   #1310
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I saw the plan of The Centre way back in highschool. I think it was called 9 Jubilee St. at that time. I though that it's not gonna be built but it got completed.
It takes years to locate all the property owners to get the whole site ready for redevelopment. That is why the older districts are not being razed on a large scale. Redevelopments can easily span a decade just to locate the owners, argue with them, go to court, and finally expropriate. Langham Place and The Center are examples of long redevelopment schemes. By the time the proposal actually becomes a physical building, a few economic cycles may have passed.

The Center's address is 99 Queen's Road Central, although it faces Jubilee Street on one side.
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 11:32 AM   #1311
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
It takes years to locate all the property owners to get the whole site ready for redevelopment. That is why the older districts are not being razed on a large scale. Redevelopments can easily span a decade just to locate the owners, argue with them, go to court, and finally expropriate. Langham Place and The Center are examples of long redevelopment schemes. By the time the proposal actually becomes a physical building, a few economic cycles may have passed.

The Center's address is 99 Queen's Road Central, although it faces Jubilee Street on one side.
When was Langham Place originally planned?
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Old February 22nd, 2007, 12:21 PM   #1312
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Originally Posted by WANCH View Post
When was Langham Place originally planned?
It took 16 years from start to finish (1988).
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 04:51 AM   #1313
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It took 16 years from start to finish (1988).
I didn't expect that to be that long. But when it was planned during 1988, buildings in Kowloon had height restrictions because of Kai Tak. The Langham Place tower is taller for that limit.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 05:06 AM   #1314
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Originally Posted by WANCH View Post
I didn't expect that to be that long. But when it was planned during 1988, buildings in Kowloon had height restrictions because of Kai Tak. The Langham Place tower is taller for that limit.
The redevelopment process takes a long time because of land expropriation, so by the time the landlords were located and paid off and the shovels got into the ground, it was clear Kai Tak was going to close, and height restrictions wouldn't be a problem anymore.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 06:25 AM   #1315
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The redevelopment process takes a long time because of land expropriation, so by the time the landlords were located and paid off and the shovels got into the ground, it was clear Kai Tak was going to close, and height restrictions wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Was the original plan similar to todays or were there subtle changes?
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 08:18 AM   #1316
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Was the original plan similar to todays or were there subtle changes?
Developer has no regrets about 15-year struggle
The doors will soon open at Langham Place, one of the city's most expensive and protracted redevelopment projects

28 April 2004
South China Morning Post

Words from Hong Kong-born American accidental pop star William Hung sum up how the deputy chairman of Great Eagle Holdings feels about a project that has taken 15 years to complete.

"I already gave my best. I have no regrets at all."

Lo Ka-shui, 57, who admits to being a Hung fan, is reflecting on one of Hong Kong's most expensive, complex and protracted urban redevelopment projects.

Great Eagle has spent 15 years and a whopping $10.5 billion on the Mongkok Seven Streets redevelopment, known as Langham Place, which incorporates Shanghai Street, Argyle Street and Portland Street. The project is due for completion in October.

The more than 1.75 million square foot office-hotel-retail complex is seven years behind schedule and $2.5 billion over budget.

Mongkok Seven Streets comprises a 59-storey, 700,000 sqft office tower, a 15-storey, 600,000 sqft shopping centre with more than 300 shops and a 42-storey, 460,000 sqft hotel with 700 rooms.

The doctor-turned-developer said scale and site meant the project would probably be unique.

"Such a huge commercial complex built in the most prosperous inner city area of Hong Kong will probably never be duplicated," said Mr Lo, who is also vice-president of the Hong Kong Real Estate Developers Association.

He sees the development as transforming the run-down precinct into a prime shopping district. "The area will undergo a dramatic change within two years of completion of Langham Place," he predicted.

Today the average price for a retail shop near Portland Street is about $10,000 per square foot, while in Sai Yeung Choi Street - Mongkok's most expensive street and a block away from Langham Place - the average retail price of a main street shop is $50,000 per square foot.

For Great Eagle, a relatively small property firm compared with heavyweights Cheung Kong (Holdings) and Sun Hung Kai Properties, 1989 was a significant year. That year the company won development rights - against heavy odds - to two giant projects: the Mongkok Seven Streets redevelopment and Citibank Plaza in Garden Road, Central.

At the time of purchase, the Mongkok site was a maze of old flats and shops, while the Citibank Plaza site, which cost $2.7 billion, was a clear site.

Mr Lo said the offering for sale by tender of such a large prime site as Mongkok Seven Streets by Land Development Corp (LDC), the predecessor of the Urban Renewal Authority (URA), was an opportunity too good to miss.

He recalled visiting the district before Great Eagle Holdings made its bid for the project.

"I counted 220 people streaming past me every minute. It was a sleepless place where shops stayed open until 2am. Our research showed that 86 per cent of shoppers visiting Mongkok were from other parts of Kowloon and Hong Kong," he said.

To improve Great Eagle's chances of winning the tender, Mr Lo formed a strategic partnership with international giants to impress the LDC.

He persuaded Itochu of Japan, the Chicago-based Pritzker family, the owner of the Hyatt Corp, and P&O of Britain to join him as minority partners in the tendering process. The strategy worked.

The LDC was impressed by the consortium's international profile, and the government's desire to attract foreign investment in Hong Kong was being fulfilled.

However, political uncertainties and the long and complex nature of the project finally left Great Eagle as the sole developer.

Great Eagle eventually bought out the interest from LDC in 1999.

While Citibank Plaza had to be completed within five years of the development rights being secured, site assembly for the Mongkok redevelopment project was not begun until 1994.

Four years later, and with the help of joint venture partner LDC, Great Eagle completed most of the site assembly at Langham Place.

Buying the Mongkok site was a relatively easy matter compared with launching the redevelopment. The project affected 1,500 households, resulting in a tangled web of delays and difficulties.

"We could not get in touch with some flat owners because of scattered ownership, which is common in old areas with obsolete buildings," he said.

"Some of the businesses could not provide tax bills or evidence to prove loss of business because of the redevelopment. Disputes arose over property valuations."

After that came the assorted problems that have contributed to what has been a five-year construction overrun.

"In hindsight, luck has been on our side," Mr Lo said.

"Our hard work has yielded a product that Hong Kong can be proud of. Today's developers would not be interested in urban redevelopment."

He expected to see dramatic changes in Mongkok when leases on mahjong clubs and shops on Portland Street expire by September next year.

"The URA has indicated its determination to rejuvenate the district as an upmarket shopping area," he said, noting that trendy cafés and restaurants had moved into the area adjacent to Langham Place. He said the machinery and tool shops along Reclamation Street, near Langham Hotel, would gradually be replaced by modern-style shops.

Asked if he would do it all over again, Mr Lo said: "No.

"If I had known it would take 15 years to complete - more than double my original forecast - I would not have done it," he said.

"The risks involved with such a lengthy project are very high."
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 10:38 AM   #1317
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There have been several developments planned for HK back in the 80s but never went through. One of them was a 70+ storie hotel in Wan Chai right near the Hopewell. I'm not talking about the Megatower complex though.
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 11:14 AM   #1318
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Originally Posted by WANCH View Post
There have been several developments planned for HK back in the 80s but never went through. One of them was a 70+ storie hotel in Wan Chai right near the Hopewell. I'm not talking about the Megatower complex though.
Wan Chai's older districts are fairly hard to redevelop. Spatial issues have plagued planners over the years. Put in too much density, and the roads can't handle them. Otherwise, a lot more would have been razed long ago.

Who was the developer of that hotel proposal and where was the site? What came out of that site in the end?
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Old February 26th, 2007, 04:59 AM   #1319
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Wan Chai's older districts are fairly hard to redevelop. Spatial issues have plagued planners over the years. Put in too much density, and the roads can't handle them. Otherwise, a lot more would have been razed long ago.

Who was the developer of that hotel proposal and where was the site? What came out of that site in the end?
I forgot who the developer was but I saw the project in the SCMP
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Old February 26th, 2007, 05:11 AM   #1320
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I forgot who the developer was but I saw the project in the SCMP
The Megatower project was originally a hotel redevelopment that would be much taller than Hopewell and pretty much sit next to it. So I'm quite surprised that another mega development in the area. Hopewell has been trying to build this thing, under various designs, for about 2 decades now.
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