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Old August 20th, 2007, 05:01 PM   #261
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be more compatible.
Oh? What usefulness are you conceiving? Intercity railed freight barging cars out o' da way?

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Old August 20th, 2007, 05:04 PM   #262
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I ment that if the TTC had to get an emergancy order are something, they could get some trains from another city or something, plus non standard gauge trains cost more (I think), It's not like the TTC needs extra money though...
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Old August 20th, 2007, 05:16 PM   #263
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I ment that if the TTC had to get an emergancy order are something, they could get some trains from another city or something, plus non standard gauge trains cost more (I think), It's not like the TTC needs extra money though...
You're not the first one to bring this issue up. This angle's been around. Adjusting the wheels' spacing is very minor and easily adjusted. It only needs to be done once anyway. It has no significant impact on costs, as it is nothing maintenance yards can't handle.
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Old August 22nd, 2007, 02:02 AM   #264
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New trains are nice.

More ROW's are nicer.
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Old August 22nd, 2007, 05:34 AM   #265
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So wait...is Toronto getting those new Bombardier Subway cars or not..i havent heard much about that lately??
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Old August 22nd, 2007, 06:09 AM   #266
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When they put in new ties, why don't they shift the track to standard gauge, and buy standard gauge trains fore each line as it gets updated.
Cause those two things have never happened, or likely will ever happen simultaineuosly, and the lifespan of rails and streetcars are about 30 years. The cost of replacing track is far more expensive than converting the trucks on the vehicles.





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Old November 4th, 2007, 06:28 AM   #267
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Streetcars to lose meddlesome middle pole
3 November 2007
The Globe and Mail

It is the bane of many streetcar riders, especially those brave ones trying to get a stroller and a child up the steps: the maddening pole bolted right in the middle of the vehicle's entrance.

Now, it is on its way out.

Turns out the pole and obstructive gate-like structure at the top of the stairs – originally meant to force riders to board single-file so everyone paid their fare – is no longer needed.

A test vehicle has been operating without the pole or the gate for the past month without any negative effects, so the transit agency now plans to alter the rest of the fleet.

“It's like a stone in your shoe … and it just bugs you and you can't get it out,” said Toronto Transit Commission vice-chairman Joe Mihevc, who originally introduced a motion in July asking agency staff to look into removing the nuisance. “And now we're getting it out.”

While it will be at least a decade before a new fleet of modern light-rail vehicles make the streetcar system truly accessible to everyone, removing this pole – called a stanchion – will make boarding the current streetcars less of a bother.

“Anyone who rides a streetcar knows how crazy-making these stanchions are,” Mr. Mihevc said in an interview. “They are people-unfriendly, and certainly anybody with a baby carriage or a stroller finds them impossible.”

Mr. Mihevc said concerns about fare evasion have decreased as the sale of Metropasses has dramatically increased, with 250,000 of the monthly passes in circulation.
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Old November 4th, 2007, 11:19 AM   #268
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When do they decide between Siemens and Bombardier?
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Old November 4th, 2007, 02:46 PM   #269
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i don't think they're buying either. They're looking at the Cezch company that had a hand building the current cars.
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Old November 5th, 2007, 04:21 AM   #270
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Is there a date when they will announce the winner? Bombardier might have a pretty good chance since they also ordered their subway cars from BBD and will probably get a nice discount?
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Old November 6th, 2007, 07:57 PM   #271
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I liked the middle poll.
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You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 01:12 AM   #272
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*pole

Are you serious?
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Old November 8th, 2007, 10:06 PM   #273
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*pole

Are you serious?
Actually, I was getting it confused with the railing on the back door. Could care less about that pole actually.
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You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:10 PM   #274
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from the 5 times that I took the streetcar in the past 10 years, I actually find that pole convinent in pulling my self onto the vehicle
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Old November 9th, 2007, 04:01 PM   #275
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[unPC]And now, with that pole out of the way, fat people can ride the streetcar[/unPC]
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Old November 10th, 2007, 12:26 PM   #276
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City's budget for streetcars too high, bidder says
9 November 2007
The Toronto Star

An Ottawa company is bidding to build the TTC's new streetcars, possibly bringing new jobs here and warning the city its budget is overly generous.

Vossloh Kiepe Corp., the Canadian subsidiary of a German conglomerate, hopes to build the 204 light-rail vehicles in Toronto, president Peter Maass confirmed last night.

"We supply equipment and partner with local companies as much as possible to manufacture at source," said Maass. He spoke to the Star in advance of a news conference today, "a major announcement of how we're going to be proceeding."

Maass wouldn't reveal the name of Vossloh Kiepe's potential partner but said it would not be Bombardier, which is also in the running for the contract along with Siemens Canada.

He said the city appears to be willing to spend more than necessary on replacing its aging streetcar fleet. "The budget, as stated by the city of Toronto, is in the neighbourhood of $7 million per streetcar. It's rather high, well above the market price."

Maass wouldn't specify what he believes the market price should be.

That's in spite of Toronto having "a challenging network of tracks," Maass said.

"There's no existing vehicle in the world that you can take and run on this system. The track gauge is a little bit wider than most systems, but that's not much of an encumbrance. It's the very tight-radius curves, especially in tunnels. They make it extremely challenging to manoeuvre with any vehicle."

The radius of some curves on TTC tracks, he said, is more than twice as tight as "a typical light-rail system." It's one reason why streetcars sometimes make an ear-splitting screech when they turn.

"We think there'll be an interesting discussion coming up to pick the best technology to deal with this," Maass said. "There's reliability and maintainability and also safety concerns ... the potential for derailment, especially in tunnels."

Vossloh Kiepe, he said, is currently working on a $250 million contract to supply Vancouver with 228 trolley buses, working with Winnipeg-based New Flyer. Vossloh Kiepe's 102-year-old parent company is based in Dusseldorf and has had, Maass said, a long relationship with Bombardier. "Most of their light-rail vehicles in Europe have our electrical propulsion systems."
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Old November 10th, 2007, 09:25 PM   #277
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Quote:
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Actually, I was getting it confused with the railing on the back door. Could care less about that pole actually.
Yeah, that pole sucks.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 06:56 PM   #278
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$7 million per vehicle is an absurd amount of money. Most LRT trains run between 2-3 million per vehicle including articulated ones.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:18 PM   #279
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Low floors will give bumpy ride, new bidder for streetcars says
Partial low-floor design would be better, Dusseldorf-based manufacturer advises TTC

9 November 2007
The Globe and Mail

Toronto is taking a risk on an unproven technology for its next generation of streetcars that would make for a bumpier ride and more breakdowns, according to a new competitor for the up-to-$1.4-billion contract.

The Toronto Transit Commission and other firms bidding for the contract insist that the ground-hugging “100-per-cent low-floor” design specification is reliable and will be better for all passengers, including the disabled.

With an eye on the TTC's expected demands for Canadian content, Dusseldorf-based Vossloh Kiepe is to announce today that it is teaming up with auto and bus parts manufacturer Martinrea International Inc., based in Vaughan, Ont., to compete for the contract. Other firms that have expressed interest in building 204 light-rail vehicles to replace the TTC's current iconic fleet include Montreal's Bombardier, Germany's Siemens, Czech-based Skoda and the French firm Alstom.

The winner may be called upon to build even more new vehicles if the city's ambitious light-rail expansion plans go ahead.

Peter Maass, president of Vossloh Kiepe's Canadian arm – which has only a handful of employees, says the TTC's recent decision to restrict the competition to designs for 100-per-cent low-floor vehicles is a bad move, because the new technology is unreliable and produces a much bumpier ride since passengers are closer to the ground.

“It is the roughest ride. When you are standing or sitting in it, you are getting this jarring right up your spine, like you wouldn't believe,” Mr. Maass said in an interview, adding that some cities in Europe are going back to partial low-floor designs. “... You feel like you are getting tossed around in the vehicle.”

Adam Giambrone, chairman of the TTC, said 100-per-cent low-floor cars he has ridden offered a smooth ride, with the exception of one in Helsinki, where he believed the track system may have been partly to blame.

“I have ridden low-floor streetcars all over the world. ... All of them were perfectly comfortable,” Mr. Giambrone said.

TTC engineers believe the 100-per-cent low-floor cars are better for passenger flow, and because they lack stairs, reduce the chances of customers tripping on board. They have also concluded that, while the design will be challenging, 100-per-cent low-floor cars may actually be better on the system's unusually tight turns, and less likely to derail than partial low-floor vehicles.

Mr. Maass said his firm will offer the TTC a completely low-floor vehicle if asked, but will try to persuade the transit agency next week to allow it to bid with a 70-per-cent low-floor car based on one it helped build for the German city of Leipzig.

Partial low-floor vehicles use traditional light-rail technology, raised like the current TTC fleet at the front and back, but with a lower middle section for disabled passengers to board.

To make the entire car low-floor means making its propulsion system and other components much smaller, Mr. Maass said, requiring “experimental” technology that can break down. He added that getting such a radical new design to work on the TTC's tracks, which have extremely tight turns and steep hills compared with many European systems, will be an added challenge.

Certainly, Siemens – considered one of the front-runners for the TTC's streetcar deal, along with Bombardier – has had many problems with its 100-per-cent low-floor light-rail vehicles in Europe in recent years, after it emerged that the streetcars' frames were cracking from the strain of the new design.

The debacle with the firm's Combino model – forerunner of the modified Combino Plus that it intends to offer Toronto – forced the German transportation giant to recall hundreds of light-rail vehicles from European cities over the past five years, costing it as much as $500-million.

Mario Péloquin, Siemens director of business development for Canada, said the Combino's problems has been solved, and he strongly denied the charge that low-floor technology is flawed.

“… It is proven technology,” he said in an interview, adding that the trend is clearly toward 100-per-cent low-floor vehicles.

Mr. Péloquin disagreed that the cars give a jarring, bumpy ride: “As a passenger, you can feel more what's happening on track below the train. But I wouldn't say it is bumpy. There's been a lot of technological advancements.”

Bombardier Transportation vice-president Mike Hardt also stood by the 100-per-cent low-floor design, which his firm plans to offer the TTC.

Bombardier was embroiled in a controversy during the last major TTC purchase, when the transit agency made a $674-million deal with the firm to build 234 new subway cars without accepting bids from other companies to protect jobs at Bombardier's Thunder Bay plant. This time, the TTC is accepting bids, but may include Canadian-content provisions.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 08:05 PM   #280
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^

in another article this company said that TTC's budget is too high, and it should be shrinked. What they're doing is child's play, and it is very unprofessional. It is usually considered rude to go public with your customer's design, before they even approved you as a contractor. It is even more rude to exploit public opinion and push your customer into a coner, in trying to win the bid. This is close to blackmail, and I dont think TTC will take it.

The chairman's response has pretty much sealed the loss for this company.
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