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Old November 15th, 2007, 02:44 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
^

i have a feeling they're going into all the ROWs, all the subway busbays, and suburban (North of St. Clair in my books) major intersections.

very good trend that the TTC is taking. It'll cost us, but it'll be well worth it for the future.
If it actually works the way its supposed to.
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Old November 15th, 2007, 02:46 PM   #302
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Martinrea plans TTC trolley bid
Joins with Voss Group to pursue assembly deal

November 15, 2007
Toronto Star

Martinrea International Inc. has teamed up with a German vehicle manufacturer to make a joint bid for a major contract from the Toronto Transit Commission.

Fred Jaekel, Martinrea's chief executive officer, confirmed yesterday that the company and the Voss Group will pursue a contract for hundreds of TTC trolley cars in the near future.

"We intend to make a strong bid," Jaekel told analysts after the company released third-quarter results.

The city has not issued a request for proposals yet, but Martinrea said the first part will call for about 220 trolley cars, with more in subsequent phases.

Vaughan-based Martinrea is primarily an auto-parts supplier but said it is open to opportunities in other industries.

"We're not purely dedicated to auto," said Jaekel, a former top manager at industry powerhouse Magna International. "We're here to make money for our shareholders. We are always looking at anything that makes sense."

Martinrea already makes frame structures for Orion Bus Industries in Mississauga. If the German and local companies win the contract, it would mean final assembly and production of some parts here for Martinrea and an unidentified number of jobs, according to Jaekel.

Voss is an international manufacturer of complex parts, with operations in several countries, including the United States. It supplies the transit, auto and heavy-machinery industries.

Meanwhile, Martinrea officials said they don't expect much expansion in Canada in the near term because of the strong dollar and declining output by three of the company's main customers, General Motors, Ford and Chrysler.

Martinrea chair Rob Wildeboer said the company will locate its parts operations near assembly plants, and more of them are now in the U.S. and Mexico.

Transportation costs have soared in recent years, so locating near assembly plants is necessary, according to company officials.

Wildeboer suggested some Martinrea plants may be closed or consolidated in Canada in the next year. At the same time, the company is pursuing acquisitions elsewhere, he added.
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Old November 15th, 2007, 08:41 PM   #303
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I bet nomels will start forcing the metric system on us pretty soon.

We call them streetcars because they are streetRAILcars.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 05:38 AM   #304
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German streetcar bid scores a ‘nein'
15 November 2007
The Globe and Mail

Three city councillors led by Norm Kelly, chairman of the planning committee, made an extraordinary appeal yesterday on behalf of German manufacturer Vossloh Kiepe GmbH to include the company in the bidding for a billion-dollar contract to replace the Toronto Transit Commission's streetcar fleet.

“In view of size and potential value of this contract, in our view the city should be trying to get as many options on the table as possible to be sure we have the best and most cost-effective vehicles for the next two or three decades,” the councillors wrote in a letter to TTC chair Adam Giambrone.

The letter was also signed by Councillors Karen Stintz and Frank Di Giorgio, following revisions by Vossloh Kiepe lobbyist Arthur Potts.

The German company was hoping to persuade TTC engineers to alter the specifications for their preferred streetcar to accept a design that would include several internal staircases or ramps rather than flat floors. But after lengthy analysis of the performance of different designs, including those proposed by Vossloh Kiepe, TTC engineers decided to order streetcars with “100-per-cent low floor area throughout the vehicle.”

“No internal steps will be permitted in the passenger compartment of the new vehicle,” Stephen Lam, TTC superintendent of streetcar engineering, reported last month. The TTC is expected to issue the final Request for Proposals before the end of December.

The decision to exclude streetcars with internal staircases was made as a result of complicated technical requirements and public desire for more accessible streetcars, according to Mr. Giambrone.

Ms. Stintz, often cited as a potential mayoral candidate, said she signed the letter hoping to “broaden” the competition to include suppliers of equipment different from that preferred by TTC engineers.

“I'm not acting on behalf of a lobbyist,” she said. “I think council should understand if there are trade-offs, and if there are, should know about it.”

Mr. Lam, described by a colleague as “one of the best streetcar engineers in the world,” set out the reasons for selecting low-floor streetcars in a detailed analysis published last month. Considering the advantages and disadvantages of both designs, it warned that vehicles of the design promoted by Vossloh Kiepe were more likely to derail than low-floor vehicles and would be insufficiently powerful to climb many hills on the Toronto system.

Extensive real-world experience with low-floor streetcars persuaded TTC engineers the design has “significant advantages and should be specified as the only acceptable vehicle configuration in the RFP,” according to the report.

“I'm not questioning the engineers,” said Ms. Stintz, adding that she had not read the engineering report before publicly demanding its expert authors reverse their position on the issue. “We need to understand what the trade-offs are.”

Ms. Stintz said she did not meet with Mr. Potts, the Vossloh Kiepe lobbyist, before deciding to endorse the company's cause. For his part, Mr. Potts said he did not “directly” meet with Ms. Stintz. He did, however, work closely with Mr. Kelly and his staff to draft the letter and gain political support for it at city hall.

Councillor Joe Mihevc, a commission member, criticized Mr. Kelly for the initiative. The German company was just doing its job, he said. “But it's not Councillor Kelly's job to stump for them.”

TTC chief general manager Gary Webster backed his engineers, saying partial low-floor streetcars capable of operating in Toronto would be unacceptably cluttered with internal stairways and ramps.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 06:27 AM   #305
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tram is actually a word that correctly describes the rail system used in a coal mine. The correct description is actually Light Rail. =-)
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Old November 16th, 2007, 09:38 AM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Martinrea plans TTC trolley bid
Joins with Voss Group to pursue assembly deal

November 15, 2007
Toronto Star

Fred Jaekel, Martinrea's chief executive officer, confirmed yesterday that the company and the Voss Group will pursue a contract for hundreds of TTC trolley cars in the near future.
makes you wonder about who wrote this article then

Quote:
Originally Posted by noob(but not really) View Post
We call them streetcars because they are streetRAILcars.
so why dont we call them "street rail" ?

The term "Streetcars" can be confusing especially when as it is placed this way on some signs in Toronto

Street -->
Cars

or

Street cars -->

But anyways...not a big deal...no matter what we call them...let's get more, better services...

Cheers, m
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Old November 16th, 2007, 10:29 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban View Post
makes you wonder about who wrote this article then

so why dont we call them "street rail" ?

The term "Streetcars" can be confusing especially when as it is placed this way on some signs in Toronto

Street -->
Cars

or

Street cars -->

But anyways...not a big deal...no matter what we call them...let's get more, better services...

Cheers, m

when in Rome, act as Romans.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 12:40 PM   #308
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Yes, regardless of which name people use, getting more would be better.
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Old November 16th, 2007, 07:05 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban View Post
so why dont we call them "street rail" ?
Trains also have "cars". Back when streetcars were first used, there weren't any automobiles, so they called them streetcars(as in rail cars).
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Old November 17th, 2007, 09:11 AM   #310
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noob, check your PMs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noob(but not really) View Post
Trains also have "cars". Back when streetcars were first used, there weren't any automobiles, so they called them streetcars(as in rail cars).
Yep. Toronto is a city with a streetcar service history going for a continuous 146 years!
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Old November 18th, 2007, 02:21 AM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ View Post
noob, check your PMs.
I read them, just haven't come up with a reply.



Quote:
Yep. Toronto is a city with a streetcar service history going for a continuous 146 years!
Absolutely. That is a record, infact. Now does everyone understand why they are "streetcars"?
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Old December 20th, 2007, 04:35 AM   #312
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Scant Canadian content target for new TTC streetcars, critics say
Last Updated: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 | 9:23 AM ET
CBC News

The TTC is preparing to award a $1 billion contract for hundreds of new streetcars, a deal that has led to intense lobbying by Bombardier, Siemens and other streetcar manufacturers.

At least 25 per cent of the new streetcars must be made in Canada, the TTC has decided, but that's a lot less content than labour groups had been hoping for.

The TTC will make a $1 billion decision next summer on its choice to replace the city's fleet of streetcars.
(Gary Graves/CBC) John Cartwright of the Toronto and York Region Labour Council said that if the TTC is going to spend more than $1 billion, as much of it as possible should stay in Canada. He points to an accepted practice in the United States, where transit vehicles must be at least 60 per cent American made.

But TTC general manager Gary Webster said that if the content requirement was any higher it would effectively eliminate all competitors except Bombardier.

"In order to go out to the world market, and include Canadian content, the recommendation is not to go any higher than 25 per cent," said Webster.

TTC vice-chair Joe Mihevc said a balance had to be struck when setting the requirement for a minimum of 25 per cent Canadian content.

"We want to be able to make a choice between the best that is out there. We want the best possible vehicle in Toronto. We have great staff that is able to evaluate what is the best. And the only way we're going to find that out is through a competitive process. So we have struck the right balance between good competition and preserving and enhancing good manufacturing jobs in Canada," he said.

Streetcar manufacturers from around the world are fighting hard to build Toronto's new streetcars.

Siemens of Germany, Skoda of the Czech Republic, Alstom from France and others are interested.

It could mean the streetcars won't be assembled in Canada, even though some of the components may be made here.

Most manufacturers, including Bombardier, construct their streetcars in Europe.

TTC chair Adam Giambrone said the 25 per cent minimum is a start. Giambrone said it "is the first time there has been a Canadian content provision in a competitive bid for transit vehicles."

If the TTC keeps to its schedule, it will choose a winning bid in the summer of 2008.

The new streetcars could be rolling along Toronto's streets in 2011.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 09:23 AM   #313
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Toronto streetcar among 'journeys of a lifetime'

December 08, 2007
The Canadian Press

It's a journey that thousands of Toronto commuters do each day, without much pleasure.

But the 501 Queen streetcar has now acquired lofty status, having been included in the new coffee-table book Journeys of a Lifetime: 500 of the World's Greatest Trips (National Geographic). The 501, boasting one of the longest streetcar routes in North America, is listed among the top 10 trolley rides on the planet.

Others include Berlin's Tram 68, Lisbon's 28 Tram, Seattle's George Benson Waterfront Streetcar, New Orleans' St. Charles Streetcar Tour, Hong Kong's trams and San Francisco's Streetcar F. National Geographic lists trolleys as "the best way to see a city from an insider's perspective.''
Quote:
It's not too good if you're in a hurry, but the 501 does give a wonderful look at city's many faces

Torontonians who ride it daily might not be impressed, but National Geographic has named the Queen streetcar, the 501, one of the top 10 trolley routes in the world. The honour is included in a new book, Journeys of a Lifetime: 500 of the World's Greatest Trips.

Despite all the hassles – the delays, slow service and overcrowding – it's not hard to understand why the route is lauded. Running almost 50 kilometres from end to end, the 501 travels through the heart of the city, and beyond. Beginning deep in the east end at Neville Park, within sight of the extraordinary R.C. Harris Filtration Plant, it ends at Long Branch on the brink of the wide open spaces of suburbia.

On a good day, the trip takes 90 minutes, but as driver Patrick Lavallee points out, that's on a good day. A bad day can mean up to five hours, most of its spent waiting for cars and trucks to get out of the way.

"The problem," he explains, "is that the route's too long. It should be divided into three shorter routes."

But for anyone not hurrying between home and work, the 501 offers a memorable urban experience. It reveals the city in all its layers and variations. It moves through a kind of time warp that starts in the mid-19th century and ends with today.

It passes through low-rise residential blocks and many-towered commercial districts. It goes past two city halls, the old and new, some of our grandest historical structures as well as some of the most banal. It encompasses our past and points to the future.

The 501 sets out at Neville Park, which used to be where the city ended and Scarborough started. Its Queen St. E. stretch in the Beach shows the power of the city to overcome its surroundings. Most buildings here tend to be mean and utilitarian, but that hasn't stifled the exuberance.

The architecture along Queen St. becomes interesting around Logan and Broadview, with a string of 19th-century buildings that would be impressive in any city.

The apex comes between Bay St. and University Ave. with our city halls and Osgoode Hall. Here the 501 enters the civic heart of Toronto, alive with shoppers and skaters at Nathan Phillips Square, our most significant public space.

Moving west past University, Queen changes yet again into a bustling street of shops, restaurants, bars and art galleries; it's a thoroughfare that was reinvented by artists in the late 1970s and subsequently taken from them by the gentrifying hordes. The latter have altered Queen West, but not yet managed to kill its wonderful spirit of outlaw entrepreneurialism.

In recent years Queen West has pushed past Spadina, its original boundary, to Bathurst, Strachan and even Dufferin. There are still rough patches but the condos under construction west of the Drake Hotel speak to the huge appeal of the street.

Even in darkest Parkdale west of Dufferin, Queen remains vital and in play. Who knows what this once affluent late 19th-century suburb will be like in 10 or 15 years? Chances are good it will be one of the most desirable neighbourhoods in Toronto, thanks to the impressive stock of Victorian housing.

Past there the streetcar hits Roncesvalles Ave. and everything changes. Suddenly, it is a waterfront route rimming Lake Ontario. The city begins to give way to a different topography, High Park to the north and more and more asphalted highways on the south. Queen widens, turns into The Queensway and becomes one of a number of expressways leading out of the city.

Streetcar tops are no longer on the sidewalk, but on islands in the middle of the road. Here, in the post-war city, the car has acquired a prominence it never enjoyed in the older districts.

The number of passengers drops noticeably and the 501 rumbles undisturbed along the side of what's really a highway. From there, it's only moments to south Etobicoke, which may be revitalized one day despite the meagreness of the raw material.

Three- and four-storey apartment boxes from the 1960s and '70s line the road. After the Humber Portal, as Lavallee calls it, the route curves to join Lake Shore Blvd.

Once past Mimico in New Toronto, the stops are on numbered streets – 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th and up to 37th. It's back to the '50s with roadside diagonal parking, strip malls and a convenience store with an ad for the long-defunct Toronto Telegram.

By the time the streetcar rolls into Long Branch, the city seems to have run out of steam. The endless complexity and variety of the urban core has given way to the industrial-scale sameness of suburbia. But none of this matters to Lavallee and the 501; the lumbering articulated vehicle enters the loop, turns slowly around and heads back to the city from which it came.


- Christopher Hume

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Old January 14th, 2008, 10:35 AM   #314
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Scant Canadian content target for new TTC streetcars, critics say
Last Updated: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 | 9:23 AM ET
CBC News

The TTC is preparing to award a $1 billion contract for hundreds of new streetcars, a deal that has led to intense lobbying by Bombardier, Siemens and other streetcar manufacturers.

At least 25 per cent of the new streetcars must be made in Canada, the TTC has decided, but that's a lot less content than labour groups had been hoping for.
I was at that meeting, my first at TTC, and it was quite interesting. A lot of comments including some rude ones between some of the commissioners and some of the audience members....

the unions called for a 60% target like the US. One commissioner supported a 100% Canadian content target, while another was interested in raising the TTC's proposed target from 25% to 30%.

The commissioners voted down the increased targets and went with the TTC's recommended 25% target...

interesting stuff, anyways.

Cheers, m
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Old January 16th, 2008, 07:54 PM   #315
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A lot of comments including some rude ones between some of the commissioners and some of the audience members....
Were those audience members unionized operators there, coz this was the type of member that was `testy` here at my first participation in a transit corporation public meeting here just last month?
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Old January 17th, 2008, 08:25 AM   #316
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Were those audience members unionized operators there, coz this was the type of member that was `testy` here at my first participation in a transit corporation public meeting here just last month?
well, there were some members of CAW and another local union there...as well as others representing the transit/transport users viewpoint...

They were the ones arguing in the background...Commissioner nearly called them to account. Personally, I would have told them keep it down or leave.

Another funny thing (which I had never seen before) was the universal presence of the 'crackberry', people walking in and out, giving 1/2 of their attention to the meeting (or sometimes less)...

But I guess that is what life is like in business or government today...

Cheers, m
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Old January 30th, 2008, 09:27 AM   #317
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What riders will see and hear on future streetcars
Toronto Star
January 26, 2008

The TTC is buying 204 streetcars to replace its existing fleet, the first of which should arrive in 2010. But the Transit City plan to put light rail on every major avenue in the city would require an additional 364 streetcars.

Why streetcars?


Toronto has been running streetcars for more than 100 years, and most transit experts say light rail is a practical and popular option.

In Europe and the United States, it has helped revitalize neighbourhoods and raise property values. Toronto's streetcar technology hasn't changed significantly since the 1930s. The cars run on electricity conducted and returned via wires on the roofs. The new models are expected to use 10 to 20 per cent less electricity and will contain more recyclable components.

Streetcars carry more people than buses. New cars have even more capacity, carrying a "crush load" of 260 to 270 people, compared with 132 passengers on the standard streetcars and 204 on the articulated cars.

Despite the challenges of running streetcars in mixed traffic, they already serve some of the busiest routes – a total of more than 91,000 people a day ride on the King and Queen lines, compared with about 37,000 on the TTC's busiest bus route, on Dufferin St. Transit City lines will be built with dedicated rights-of-way; and in sections, on Eglinton Ave., Jane St. and Pape Ave., it will operate underground.

The width of the cars will be almost identical – 2.54 metres – and the 3.685-metre height won't change. The length, however, is expected to vary between 27 and 30 metres, depending on the manufacturer.

What riders will see and hear

The new cars will be less tank-like, featuring a rounder, sleeker exterior. There is a provision to allow for a minor slope in the floor, but there will be no steps inside, making them fully accessible.

Existing platforms will be built up to allow for level boarding at a uniform height of 35 centimetres.

They will have larger windows and doorways, be more ergonomic, airy and contemporary, according to Stephen Lam, the TTC's superintendent of streetcar engineering. Improved heating, ventilation and air conditioning will also add to rider comfort.

The new cars will be loaded from all doors, be equipped with an audio and visual stop-announcement system. It will be possible to flip up two seating areas to make room for wheelchairs.

The driver will sit in an enclosed cab and will not handle fares. There will be improved exterior lighting and in mixed traffic, LED pictograms will warn drivers of an impending stop.

But the familiar rumble as they travel down the tracks won't change.

The controversies

Low-floor: The previous generation of 100 per cent low-floor streetcars had problems with cracking and derailment.

"We are fully cognizant of the design deficiencies of the earlier generation of vehicles and are taking the necessary measures to ensure that the car builders can address all the TTC concerns even with their latest designs," says Lam.

At least 29 cities are using low-floor cars, including Geneva, Amsterdam, Athens and Paris and U.S. Transportation Research Board data show half of the streetcar orders in the world are for 100 per cent low-floor, he said.

Although there will be no steps inside the car, there could be a slope about 50 mm higher in the centre than at the threshold, depending on where the wheel works, known as bogies, are located.

Canadian content:

Toronto Transit commissioners have already decreed that the company that wins the streetcar contract will have to prove that 25 per cent, or about $300 million, of its parts and labour will be made in Canada.

That's based on a consultant's report that says increasing the Canadian content requirement beyond 25 per cent would discriminate against non-Canadian bidders.

- Tess Kalinowski
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 06:58 PM   #318
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As long as TC uses T-rail instead instead of streetcar grooved rail, I'm good.
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You are genius too Electrify, never would have thought of this if not for your thread.
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Old February 3rd, 2008, 01:32 AM   #319
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a slope... that's a bad idea.
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Old February 3rd, 2008, 01:43 AM   #320
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a slope... that's a bad idea.
Why?
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