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Old March 29th, 2005, 06:34 PM   #21
Roch5220
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Yes, SF does. Very fantastic.
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Old March 29th, 2005, 07:17 PM   #22
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some more ROWs pictures





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Old March 29th, 2005, 08:11 PM   #23
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I'm sorry!!! But in my country only use public transit who don't have money to buy a car (here the cars are very expensive and most peolpe don't earn much money ). And i've heard in Canada verybody have e can bye a car.
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Old March 29th, 2005, 08:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartboy
I'm sorry!!! But in my country only use public transit who don't have money to buy a car (here the cars are very expensive and most peolpe don't earn much money ). And i've heard in Canada verybody have e can bye a car.
Well everyone (rich to poor) pretty much uses PT except people in the suburbs and owning a car doesn't mean people stop using PT (well in toronto) PT has many advantages over a car in toronto.
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Old March 30th, 2005, 02:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
bad pic, but it shows row
LA, 1979 :P


do you know where the pic was taken?
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Old March 30th, 2005, 02:27 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegEnd
the streetcars in Toronto are great, used them all the time when i was there, made me wish we could get more stuff like that in britain.

Is it there or san fransisco that has the old cars from all over the place?
Quite possibly you are thinking of the Market Street Railway in San Francisco:

Home Page:
http://www.streetcar.org/index.html

Index page for pictures and descriptions of the streetcar fleet:
http://www.streetcar.org/fline/streetcars/index.html

The following are just a few of the streetcars featured at the above website:

1912 Moscow/Orel Tram


1927 Osaka Tram


1929 Porto (Portugal) Tram


1934 Blookpool (England) Boat Tram


1929/1930 Melbourne (Australia) Tram


Philadelphia PCC

Last edited by greg_christine; March 30th, 2005 at 02:39 AM.
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Old March 30th, 2005, 02:53 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikko
LA, 1979 :P


do you know where the pic was taken?
The pic was taken on the 510 Spadina route just south of (leaving) the Bremner stop (aka SkyDome, now Rogers Centre). The stop is now surrounded by condominium towers.
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Old March 30th, 2005, 03:39 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil
The pic was taken on the 510 Spadina route just south of (leaving) the Bremner stop (aka SkyDome, now Rogers Centre). The stop is now surrounded by condominium towers.
Oh wow, looks so very different...
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Old March 30th, 2005, 05:04 AM   #29
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It's called SF Muni. MSR is a Streetcar advocacy group. Another company with the same name operated half of the Streetcars in SF before it merged with MUNI in the '50s. Half of the streetcars you showed are no longer running for one reason or another, but we do have quite a large number of PCCs, Milano Peter Witts, and other historic streetcars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine
Quite possibly you are thinking of the Market Street Railway in San Francisco:

Home Page:
http://www.streetcar.org/index.html

Index page for pictures and descriptions of the streetcar fleet:
http://www.streetcar.org/fline/streetcars/index.html

The following are just a few of the streetcars featured at the above website:

1912 Moscow/Orel Tram


1927 Osaka Tram


1929 Porto (Portugal) Tram


1934 Blookpool (England) Boat Tram


1929/1930 Melbourne (Australia) Tram


Philadelphia PCC
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Old March 30th, 2005, 06:29 AM   #30
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Different culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartboy
I'm sorry!!! But in my country only use public transit who don't have money to buy a car (here the cars are very expensive and most peolpe don't earn much money ). And i've heard in Canada verybody have e can bye a car.
Don't worry about it too much, you asked a question, and you get an answer. Amazing how different a simple think like public transit can be in two different countries, eh? :-)

Anyways, as to whether public transit is only for the "poor" or not largely depends on the city. In large and/or dense cities, like Montreal, Vancouver, or Toronto public transit plays an important role. Here in Toronto, most people don't drive into the city unless they are either exceedingly wealthy or have to. There are numberous reasons why you'd take transit, such as it being safe, reasonably clean, faster (during rush hour), and usually cheaper. If you work downtown, parking is at least (at LEAST) $15, a day, versus about $3/day if you buy a metropass. This is on top of gas, insurance, time, etc. The TTC has large cummuter lots at the end of it's subway lines which have free parking if you have a metropass. Toronto also has an extensive heavy rail commuter service by GO Transit. It takes more people into the city on a workday than the 2 highways that go downtown, do. Some people drive occassionally. I have a friend who lives in the suburbs and works downtown, but during the summer leaves early from work on fridays to beat the rush to the cottage. Speding the extra money and hassle is worth it to him once a week.

So you see that dense cities have little room for parking many cars, so people opt to either take the train in, or live IN the city where you don't need a car (like me! :-). I certainly could afford one, but this way i spend $90/month for a pass, everything i want is in walking distance or a quick streetcar or subway ride away. My commute to work is less than 15 minutes. Being 23, if I owned a car, I'd be spending $300/month on insurance alone (and i have never had an accident ot speeding ticket)! Then there is the price of the car itself, gas, parking, mainenance... This way I have more money to save up for a place and travel ;-).

That being said, it depends on the city and the services that are offered. Hell, even in Toronto I tend to avoid parts that are only served by busses. Calgary is a "car friendly" city, but has a good light rail service that is being expanded and is used by commuters. Certainly, smaller cities have a perception that you're only taking the bus because you can't afford a car, because the bus service is so terrible that you'd only be using it if you absolutely had to. Many medium sized cities have universities where students use the transit (like London, Kingston, etc), but otherwise is not used by other locals.

Most poor people in Canada can afford to get a car, albiet probably a used one. Some places you need it. Some you don't. It depends. Compare New York City to Los Angeles. Two very big cities. In one, you're considered an idiot for trying to drive downtown during rush hour. The other, you're considered poor if you try to get around via any means but a car.

I hope I clearly explained our way of thinking to you.
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Old March 30th, 2005, 07:07 PM   #31
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Thank you hylaride !

Thank you hylaride for the explanation!!!

My city has 10 million habitants and the public transit it's not efficient and everybody want have a car. But cars cause traffic jams.

Well, what time streetcars works? Does It work at early morning too?
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Old March 30th, 2005, 10:00 PM   #32
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Night Time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartboy
Thank you hylaride for the explanation!!!

My city has 10 million habitants and the public transit it's not efficient and everybody want have a car. But cars cause traffic jams.

Well, what time streetcars works? Does It work at early morning too?
Depends on the route. Some of them are 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The subways shut down for 3.5 hours every day (from 2AM-5:30AM) and buses take the slack operating on a special night schedule. Most of the city is covered by it (the name of it is called Blue Night).

Two streetcars lines that go downtown (Queen and College if memory serves correctly) run all the time at a reduced schedule. During the day they run at 5 minute intervals, where as the evening it goes down to 30 minutes.

The fact that the subway shuts down at 2am (especially on summer friday and saturday nights) really bugged me until I realized that a lot of other cities did the same thing earlier AND didn't have night busses, so i'm considering myself lucky :-). I really hate busses, but I'll take them 2 or 3 times a week if I have to.

If you want to learn more about Toronto's Transit, there is an excellent site at Transit Toronto. They have answers from everything from why Toronto still has streetcars, to why it wasn't until the 1950s that we finnally got a subway (they were planning one in the early 1910s, but then WW1, by the time the economy fully returned to peacetime and they started talking about it again the depression and then WW2 hit).
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Old March 31st, 2005, 04:48 PM   #33
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if Toronto needs new trams, well I found some very nice trams just being built for Zagreb (Croatia) city transport, they are all articulated can be designed to specification of each city and Zagreb is getting at first 70 and than 100 more the replace its stock of old trams.

TMK 2200



TMK 2200 Trams are 32m long, 2.5 m wide, max speed is 70km, and max cappacity is 200 - 48 seats. Not bad at sniped price of US$1.75 mill per tram.

All trams will have interior and exterior cctv - for saftey reason installed.

tram link on the manufactures website - http://www.koncar-ellok.hr/prikaz.asp?txt_id=1224



Curent city trams are also quite nice enterd service 2000-2004 - less than 30 are in service but they are nicely done.

TMK 2100

TMK 2100 stats, Lenght 27.4m Width: 2.2m Max speed 58km, capacity: 44 seating and 120 standing. No in service: 20+


don't think they manufacture this trams anymore.
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Old March 31st, 2005, 05:18 PM   #34
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Ok well they would have to be Bombardier if Toronto bought new ones, because Bombardier is Canadian so if they are involved the Federal government is more likely to chip in with some money.
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Old March 31st, 2005, 05:20 PM   #35
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And with all the gov't grants they get ...
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Old March 31st, 2005, 05:34 PM   #36
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Oh yhea, I forgot of them, Krakow in Poland just got 50 of them, very nice 3 section trams - let me find some pics - don't have any specs but you could actually request trams to your own specs - needs.

New Bombadier Tram

Last edited by mic of Orion; March 31st, 2005 at 05:46 PM.
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Old March 31st, 2005, 06:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
Ok well they would have to be Bombardier if Toronto bought new ones, because Bombardier is Canadian so if they are involved the Federal government is more likely to chip in with some money.
Not entirely. This is a provincial issue. The Federal government doesn't technically have the autority to do this, and the idea of giving gas tax money to cities is heading for a constitutional challenge. Keep in mind, that even though most of your taxes go to the federal government in Canada, most of it is transferred directly to the provinces to spend as they see fit.

Toronto does tent to buy Subway cars from Bombardier, but it gets busses from all several different companies. As the TTC has it's current fleet from a former ontario crown corporation (since sold to bombardier), it's most likely that they'll get the streetcars from wherever is cheapest.

Also, Bombardier has a large airline industry in Toronto. Bombardier is not afraid to use arm twisting tactics against governments. One day that company will get what's comming to it...
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Old March 31st, 2005, 06:46 PM   #38
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The TTC already said that if they are to get new streetcars the money will have to come directly from both the Provincial and Federal governments. If the Feds see Bombardier involved then they are more likely to hand over some money. Vancouver already has a similar deal worked out with them for funding there Skytrain.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 09:57 PM   #39
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i hope the new trams look sleaker!!! what is the Skytrain?
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Old May 17th, 2005, 05:28 AM   #40
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SkyTrain is a rapid transit system that unlike LRT is not at-grade and unlike subway is not undergroungd {although section downtown is.
It is elevated with no street contact.
The largest system of SkyTrain is in Vancouver. It is fast, effiecent, safe, and EXTREMLY frequent....evry 3 minutes during the day, every 90seconds in rush hour.
They are totally automated, no driver.
In Vancouver the SkyTrain system is 50km. As a visual just think of a monorail except it has 2 rails like a train.
www.translink.bc.ca is Vancouver Transit website. Lots of pics.
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