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Old September 2nd, 2008, 04:50 AM   #381
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Perhaps it's just a fact of life - economies of scale in European manufacturers are always going to have the edge. Factories in Europe are probably already tooled up for construction and it gives you a bit of flexibility - for example you can extend an order several years after the original order without having to wait for a mothballed factory to be reactivated. Compare that to Bombardier in Australia where a portion of the workforce is likely to lose their jobs once their current contract is over, leaving the factory with nothing to build.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 05:54 AM   #382
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Yes, exporting streetcars to China or Europe from a North American factory just doesn't make sense.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #383
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Railing against change
Toronto's streetcar system on the right track thanks to rail renaissance

13 September 2008
National Post

The westbound TTC stop at Parliament and Carlton is not the place to fall in love with Toronto's streetcars. If you stand there long enough, a red rocket will eventually turn off Gerrard and glide up the street, ready to deliver you to points west. But it's a hard corner to wait at -- you can only see a few hundred metres down the track -- and you've got to trust that another car is always just around the bend.

The longer you wait, the more invested you feel in waiting longer. It must be just around the corner by now. When it isn't, the initials "FS" stamped on the nearby TTC schedule that promise "Frequent Service" seem more likely to stand for "Frequent Sucker." That's you. Or me.

And when I feel like a sucker I start walking west on Carlton, losing sight of the Parliament stretch of tracks. Sometimes it will round the corner a half-minute later and I'll be mid-block and miss it, while other times I'll stomp, mutter and swear all the way to Yonge Street before I see a streetcar.

Why, exactly, do I buy a Metropass every month? It's at this point of incendiary exasperation that the people who say Toronto's streetcars are antiquated and should be removed -- tracks and overhead wires included -- start to sound like reasonable people.

This is a moment of weakness, though, so pay no attention to them, for they are philistines. To rip out Toronto's streetcar system would remove the glue that holds the centre of this city together. The network of rails is infrastructure built to last on a grand scale. Should we ever abandon Toronto such as they have Detroit, Buffalo and other shrunken U. S. cities, and then let 10,000 years of weather erode and wear the city down, the tracks will still be here like an indestructible city skeleton laying in the dust of our civilization. Those philistines say buses are more nimble and can maneuver around cars making left hand turns, and that they don't require a massive capital investment, but those rails are an investment in the very idea of Toronto.

Buses lack the elegance of the streetcars that navigate like giant street ships through Toronto, their permanent courses set for the long haul. During a snowstorm, try riding up near the front of a car before the salt trucks have a chance to turn it all into dirty slush. While other vehicles slip and slide, unsure of the road beneath, the streetcars drive a steady and straight line down the middle, instantly organizing the chaos around them. Our current streetcars are built like tanks and weigh too much -- damaging the rails and neighbouring masonry -- but that solid chunk-a-chunk, chunk-a-chunk sound that your body feels more than your ears hear it, and the way the sidewalk vibrates under your feet as they roll by, is one of the few times Toronto reaches back and touches us physically. Up above, the wires are the city's electric nervous system, continuously running, waiting for a streetcar to tap it for energy. They're like Toronto's ceiling, marking where the city ends, and atmospheric wilderness begins.

Toronto is undergoing a rail renaissance. City Hall is promoting its Transit City plan that would have light rail extend well outside of the former City of Toronto boundaries, while Metrolinx, the regional transportation authority, just unveiled a plan that would continue to drive those rails out into the 905. There are even passionate debates in both Internet and sidewalk forums on whether Eglinton should have light rail or a subway of its own. Across North America cities are looking to return to urban rail transit, yet for decades Toronto had one of the only robust streetcar networks on the continent and it became a beloved symbol of this city.

The philistine may be right in one respect; the streetcars evoke a feeling of an earlier era when the industrial revolution was in full swing. The way sparks will snap and crack along the wires reminds us of times past, when new and bulky machinery seemed untamed and dangerous.

Walk by the Hillcrest TTC yard on Davenport or the Roncesvalles Garage down at the southern edge of the city and listen to the violent sound chunks of heavy metal make as they clang and smash together in the shop.

Men with blow torches and anvils shape steel into working parts there for these great machines. On board, there is often sand spread around the front seats, spilt when filling the reservoir underneath that automatically dispenses it on the rails for traction.

On the streets, drivers sometimes have to leave their helms and use crowbars to switch tracks or place the "witch's broom" sticking out of the rear of the streetcar back on the overhead wire.

These are all special, elemental and physical activities that are so unlike the smooth and silicone operation of modern life.

Some cities cover their geography with bungalows, malls, skyscrapers and taverns just like we do, but without

rails sunk deep into the earth it feels as if you could roll those cities up like a rug and there would be no trace left. When we build streetcar tracks it's no quick and painless endeavour, as anybody living or working on a street undergoing rail replacement will tell you.

During the 1950s and 1960s, the Toronto Transit Commission followed a streetcar abandonment policy, as many cities in North America did.

Streets such as Coxwell, Harbord, Hallam, Ossington, Davenport, Winchester and Parliament once saw streetcars roll along their length. But their spirit can't be killed so easily. Take a close look along Landsdowne, especially at Davenport, or on St. Clair at Mount Pleasant; the old tracks are pushing up through the pavement toward daylight.

In some places you can just make out the long, narrow bumps along the street where the rails lay. In other places, the pavement has worn down, exposing bits of steel that can catch the sun: a surprise reflection of light where there isn't supposed to be any.

A few years ago, a city crew repairing a water main dug a hole in the middle of Dupont in front of my old apartment, an unintended exhumation that afforded a perfect cross section view of the rails and timber ties that the old Dupont and Bay streetcars once plied.

Though they haven't been in operation since 1963, they're still there under the pavement, right by the big LCBO, then a Power Supermarket. It was a little sad to watch, like viewing a civic autopsy and seeing exposed bones that look intact but whose marrow no longer produces blood cells.

The streetcar tracks and wires define what our city looks and sounds like. Toronto may be Hollywood North and is stunt double for Chicago or New York, but a shot of the tracks is always the Toronto giveaway the producers hope we don't notice.

Perhaps we know the TTC's gauge instinctively, but no amount of foreign flags and weird-looking taxicabs can hide Toronto's identity. The ding of the streetcar bell and the sound of their smooth rumble are the aural wallpaper we hardly notice while we're here, but miss when in another city dominated by diesel and gasoline engine sounds.

The rails and wires tie parts of our city together in a way buses cannot. Longtime Junction residents will tell you how cut off from the city they felt in 1968 when the Dundas car began terminating at Bloor instead of driving a permanent and smooth path into their neighbourhood from downtown. Toronto is lucky the TTC abandoned the abandonment policy in time to retain a rail network the envy of other cities.

Out in the middle of Kingston Road, just east of Victoria Park, streetcar rails abruptly end a hundred metres into Scarborough. They lay there waiting for us to decide that these parts of Toronto matter too, taunting us even, asking if we have the audacious nerve to continue tying Toronto together with a backbone of steel.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better View Post
Apparently now Bombardier says they used "European standards", instead of the Toronto standards that they are very familiar with, and they say they were expecting
that the Toronto cars would move slower. Waste of everyone's time and money.
This smacks of Bombardier's decision to have their rail division based in Europe instead of Canada. After Bombardier bought a German rail manufacturer and merged it with their own rail division, the merged unit's head office and decision making shifted to Europe. Who bought who here?

This is a Canadian company that is being told what to do by their European subsidiary. Ridiculous. The German rail division is dictating to the parent.

We should buy Canadian and support manufacturing jobs in Thunder Bay, but Bombardier should also gradually reverse its decision and move the rail division's global head office, r&d, and decision making back to Canada. Bombardier is a great asset to this country, but they should also support the country that got them to their present position globally.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 07:30 PM   #385
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Bombardier sells far more trains in Europe than they do in North America. Europeans embrace public transit, North Americans treat it as a form of travel for those too poor to own a car. It makes much more sense to base you head office where most of your business is.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 07:41 PM   #386
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they look ugly and old
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Old October 25th, 2008, 10:05 AM   #387
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Bombardier sells far more trains in Europe than they do in North America. Europeans embrace public transit, North Americans treat it as a form of travel for those too poor to own a car. It makes much more sense to base you head office where most of your business is.
So, Montreal should go without a head office because people in Atlanta don't embrace public transit? Most major Canadian cities embrace public transit so your argument amounts to nothing. Only the poor in Canada use transit? Try again. Maybe in parts of the US, but certainly not here. You don't know what you're talking about.

Your argument also shows a complete dismissal of Canadian national interest and the billions of dollars this country has poured into Bombardier to get it to where it is today.

Toronto, Montreal, Ontario, Quebec, and the federal government have massively supported this firm to ensure that Canada had a competitive transportation and aerospace sector. To transfer the wealth and position that Canadians have built over 30 years in this company to to Europe is intolerable. Having factories there is one thing, but key functions should remain in Montreal. This is a Montreal firm.

Besides, Canadian cities award more contracts to this company than any city in the world, including any in Europe. I doubt Europeans would take kindly to a company they've poured billions of dollar into, buying a Canadian firm, and then moving the head office of the merged firm to Canada.

Check your facts first please.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 10:21 AM   #388
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Don't worry. In a few years Bombardier's North America order books will have a long waiting list.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 08:32 AM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
So, Montreal should go without a head office because people in Atlanta don't embrace public transit? Most major Canadian cities embrace public transit so your argument amounts to nothing. Only the poor in Canada use transit? Try again. Maybe in parts of the US, but certainly not here. You don't know what you're talking about.

Your argument also shows a complete dismissal of Canadian national interest and the billions of dollars this country has poured into Bombardier to get it to where it is today.

Toronto, Montreal, Ontario, Quebec, and the federal government have massively supported this firm to ensure that Canada had a competitive transportation and aerospace sector. To transfer the wealth and position that Canadians have built over 30 years in this company to to Europe is intolerable. Having factories there is one thing, but key functions should remain in Montreal. This is a Montreal firm.

Besides, Canadian cities award more contracts to this company than any city in the world, including any in Europe. I doubt Europeans would take kindly to a company they've poured billions of dollar into, buying a Canadian firm, and then moving the head office of the merged firm to Canada.

Check your facts first please.
Take a pill buddy.

If you don't like the fact Bombardier doesn't have a head office in Montreal for rail, go buy some shares, a lot of shares, attend a shareholder's meeting and tell them what you think. Maybe somebody from Bombardier might care then. They are a private company that can operate how it pleases.

Do most major Canadian cities embrace public transit? Take a tour of Europe and see if that statement holds any water. The automobile reigns supreme in all Canadian cities and attracts the lion's share of funding. Yes, Europeans love their autos too, but many cities there have viable public transportation that provides a real choice to the car. Not so many places in Canada where you can say that is true. The auto will retain the lion's share of transportation funds for the foreseeable future in Canada. Canadian governments do view public transit as a social service for the poor. If they viewed it as a viable transportation alternative, they would fund it so it could become so.

Has Canada poured BILLIONS into Bombardier? Perhaps if you count orders for rail stock in there. That's purchasing a product however. MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars have been given to Bombardier to subsidize its aerospace component with no order for anything attached. That's corporate welfare which is poor government policy in my opinion...but its certainly not in the order of billions. Of course, if you count sucker deals where Bombardier over charges for its product and the government who is paying the bill laps up the exorbitant price...that could be viewed as a sort of subsidy. Really is just bad business on behalf of government.

Do Canadian transit agencies buy more trains from Bombardier than European agencies do? Not being privy to Bombardier sales figures, I can't say for sure. The market in Europe is much bigger than the North American market. The Europeans provide much more in the way of funds for transit and public transit is a much greater part of every day life in Europe than it is here.

The point is moot however. Bombardier will do as it pleases despite all the whining from you or anyone else who has no significant financial interest in the corporation. Anyone who expects anything long term back from a mature private company once any sort of Government agency has poured subsidies into it is naive. Corporations are out to make the most money for the least cost. That is the only way they can survive. There is nothing wrong with it in my books, but don't expect a government handout to cover bad business decisions. Bombardier has done that too many times and for that reason it deserves some contempt. Not for some childish notion as to where the head office should be located.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 11:06 AM   #390
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It's true that Bombardier gets free cash just by virtue of being a great Canadian company, and that corporate welfare is never good.

But it's also true that all other countries subsidize their industry champions: USA gives to Boeing, the EU with Airbus, Brazil with Embraer, and China and Russia and Japan with their companies. As a result it's a necessary evil for us to subsidize Bombardier.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #391
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Portland has a new streetcar manufacturer...United Streetcar, operated by Oregon Iron Works and partnered with Skoda...you all should buy from us.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 07:18 PM   #392
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Province pledges $27.5B for infrastructure projects
TTC chair sees McGuinty's announcement as good news for city's plans for light-rail transit

24 March 2009
The Toronto Star

Ontario will spend its way out of the recession with an "unprecedented" $27.5 billion cash infusion to improve public transit, roads, schools and hospitals over the next two years, Premier Dalton McGuinty says.

The money will be topped up with $5 billion from January's federal budget for a total of $32.5 billion in new infrastructure spending, but there were no details yesterday on which projects will go ahead from a wish list that includes Toronto Transit Commission plans for more light-rail lines.

"It's a big number, but, you know what? It needs to be done. Inaction is not an option," said McGuinty, who repeated the government will reveal an $18 billion deficit for the current fiscal year and next year in its budget on Thursday.

The money includes: about $9 billion for transportation, $7 billion for hospitals and other health projects such as long-term care, $4 billion for education and $850 million for municipal infrastructure.

With the provincial government typically spending about $16 billion every two years on infrastructure, the $27.5 billion over two years represents a substantial increase if the money flows as promised. McGuinty said the two-year infrastructure spending program is the largest in Ontario's history.

Details on specific projects, some of which remain the subject of negotiations with the federal government, will come in the budget, McGuinty told reporters after the announcement at St. Joseph's Health Centre in Toronto's west end. He would not say whether cash-strapped municipalities like Toronto will be required to pitch in money to qualify for the "massive" fund designed to create or support 300,000 jobs in the province.

But a senior government source hinted cities might have to pony up some cash, noting the province gave municipalities $1.1 billion for infrastructure projects last fall.

"Not all municipalities have spent it," the source said.

Toronto Mayor David Miller said he's waiting for details.

"I hope it's good news," he said at city hall, adding his priority is money for light-rail transit, less expensive to build and operate than subway lines.

TTC chair Adam Giambrone said that "any way you cut it," the announcement is a good omen for Toronto's plans to refurbish and expand its streetcar lines with new Euro-style light-rail vehicles.

He said it vindicates the TTC's efforts to get three of seven Transit City light-rail lines ready to begin construction this year and next.

Work is to begin on the Sheppard East Transit City line in September, and on the Eglinton and Finch West lines next year.

The light-rail vehicle contract, worth $1.25 billion to $3 billion, would include an option to build hundreds more cars.

"That's obviously critical and it creates jobs in Ontario because they're going to be manufactured in Ontario whether it's Siemens (Canada) or Bombardier," Giambrone said.

Yesterday's announcement signals that Metrolinx's "Big Move" recommendations, released last fall for more than 100 projects such as York Region's Viva bus rapid transit and express GO train service, are more than a dream, said agency chair Rob MacIsaac.

"Based on what we're seeing today, the province is making good on its commitment to the Big Move and transit across the province," he said.

But NDP Leader Andrea Horwath blasted McGuinty for his lack of specifics in yesterday's announcement. "It is a big number, (but) the thing that I'm most concerned about is I don't see a vision," she told reporters.

The Progressive Conservatives said the number of jobs the infrastructure fund will create or save is barely enough to keep pace with 300,000 manufacturing jobs lost in the province in the last few years.

"Ontarians expect to see a plan that's going to get them back to work, so they can provide for their families and have some hope for the future," said interim party leader Bob Runciman.
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Old March 28th, 2009, 01:53 AM   #393
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Great news. Toronto definitely needs an infrastructure splurge.
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Old March 28th, 2009, 07:30 AM   #394
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BTW..........this begs the question, when is the TTC finally going to make a decision on who will build {and which model} the new streetcars & light rail cars for TC? I know it was suppose to make a decision last fall but that fell thru. Well if these lines start construction soon they had better make up their minds. With Obama & CDN cities about to go on a massive urban transit expansions there will be a line up for new LRT cars and just because they could be built in Ontario doesn't mean they will get priority. If other systems order hundreds of new cars before the TTC does then Toronto could itself with new LRT lines, money for streetcar replacement and having to wait years to actually get the cars. Also, since when does Ontario have a Siemens plant? If they get bribed into coming to Ontario the wait for streecar will be even longer.
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Old March 28th, 2009, 07:45 AM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
BTW..........this begs the question, when is the TTC finally going to make a decision on who will build {and which model} the new streetcars & light rail cars for TC? I know it was suppose to make a decision last fall but that fell thru. Well if these lines start construction soon they had better make up their minds. With Obama & CDN cities about to go on a massive urban transit expansions there will be a line up for new LRT cars and just because they could be built in Ontario doesn't mean they will get priority. If other systems order hundreds of new cars before the TTC does then Toronto could itself with new LRT lines, money for streetcar replacement and having to wait years to actually get the cars. Also, since when does Ontario have a Siemens plant? If they get bribed into coming to Ontario the wait for streecar will be even longer.

I believe that the TTC want a customized vehicle just like their current fleet, and therefore, they're being very picky about the design just so that they can later say that they've tried and couldn't find an existing vehicle that's compatible with the unique requirements of Toronto.

Many bureaucracies play this game to legitimise their wishes.


Just my opinion though....
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Old March 28th, 2009, 08:12 AM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
So, Montreal should go without a head office because people in Atlanta don't embrace public transit? Most major Canadian cities embrace public transit so your argument amounts to nothing. Only the poor in Canada use transit? Try again. Maybe in parts of the US, but certainly not here. You don't know what you're talking about.

Your argument also shows a complete dismissal of Canadian national interest and the billions of dollars this country has poured into Bombardier to get it to where it is today.

Toronto, Montreal, Ontario, Quebec, and the federal government have massively supported this firm to ensure that Canada had a competitive transportation and aerospace sector. To transfer the wealth and position that Canadians have built over 30 years in this company to to Europe is intolerable. Having factories there is one thing, but key functions should remain in Montreal. This is a Montreal firm.

Besides, Canadian cities award more contracts to this company than any city in the world, including any in Europe. I doubt Europeans would take kindly to a company they've poured billions of dollar into, buying a Canadian firm, and then moving the head office of the merged firm to Canada.

Check your facts first please.
Bombardier Transportation was an European firm to begin with. It was Adtranz which was bought by Bombardier, Adtranz was originally a division of Daimler AG.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 04:43 PM   #397
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A streetcar now for city of tomorrow
April 18, 2009
Tess Kalinowski
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
Toronto Star


DAVID COOPER/TORONTO STAR FILE PHOTO
All aboard Bombardier's glassy LRV model that may get to fill Toronto's transit needs.


After years of anticipation, the Toronto Transit Commission will announce later this month whether Bombardier or Siemens Canada has won a record-breaking contract to replace its aging streetcars.

At $1.25 billion to $3 billion, the buy will be the biggest ever by a Canadian city, and among the largest light-rail-vehicle orders in the world.

More than big money is riding on the deal. This contract is all about the two urgent urban concerns of 2009: the jobs of today and the city of tomorrow.

It could prop up the foundering economy of Thunder Bay, where Bombardier has a plant.

Or it could mean 200 new jobs in the similarly struggling Toronto region, where Siemens has pledged to build a plant if it gets the deal.

The TTC believes the light rail vehicles (LRVs) can reform the habits of car-tethered suburbanites and ease the long, depressing commutes of low-income workers living in underserviced areas.

Politicians and planners believe neighbourhoods will be transformed when the LRVs begin operating on an extensive system of light rail lines dubbed Transit City, as well as on the 11 existing streetcar routes.

Whichever supplier is chosen April 27, the 204 new cars – with potentially 364 more to fully outfit Transit City – will be quieter and sleeker than the 248 iconic clunkers that now lumber along Toronto's thoroughfares.

"Customers will find (them) more comfortable than the current fleet," said Stephen Lam, TTC superintendent of light rail engineering, citing "their modernistic and roomy interior design, seating arrangement, panoramic windows, full accessibility and user-friendly features, and air-conditioning."

Now it comes down to who will build them, and where – and whose sinking economy will benefit.

Both Bombardier and Siemens say they offer proven technology and reliable LRVs. The bids are based on Bombardier's Flexity Outlook and Siemens' Combino Plus models. Similar in design features, both are excellent, 100 per cent low-floor cars, Lam says.

But the winning bidder will have to customize its model to Toronto's unique requirements, so TTC engineers have understandably focused on technical aspects. Both makers had to prove their vehicle could handle Toronto's steep hills and uncommonly tight turning points.

The other key requirement: 25 per cent, or about $300 million, of the fleet order has to involve Canadian parts and labour.

That's not much compared with job-protection policies abroad, says John Cartwright, president of the Toronto and York Region Labour Council. The U.S. demands 60 per cent American content.

"We believe the TTC could easily have (a major supplier) providing those streetcars at 50 per cent content," Cartwright said. He said raising the Canadian portion would obviously be easier for Bombardier, "but if Siemens does want to commit to a long-term economic investment in Ontario, then it should be just as favourable to them."

Both have set up plants elsewhere to meet content requirements.

The TTC says it would raise the 25 per cent requirement if it later exercises the option to buy 364 more cars for Transit City. (TTC funding even for the initial order of 204 is not yet in hand, but the province has already pledged to outfit the first two Transit City lines.)

"With the Thunder Bay plant and the parts network we have established, we could certainly entertain higher levels of (Canadian) content," said Bombardier spokesperson David Slack.

Some parts would be Canadian-made but supply lines would remain "multinational," said Slack.

Siemens, which has its Canadian headquarters in Mississauga, says it would have no problem meeting the 25 per cent mark. It has been talking to the province about sites for an assembly plant employing about 200 workers plus engineers.

Its preference is to stay in the GTA. And on that score, Siemens has new statistics on its side: Three-month seasonally adjusted figures in March showed that at 8.8 per cent, the Toronto area's jobless rate has outpaced Thunder Bay's 8.6.

The workforce is here; the client is here, said Mario Peloquin, Siemens' director of mobility.

But the Canadian content rule is more complex than it appears.

"It's a tough number for any company because of the strict method of calculating the 25 per cent – it's 25 per cent of the price to the customer," said Peloquin, who notes there are costs attached to opening a plant. "It sounds low, but if you brought it up to 80 per cent, nobody could achieve it" and still make the LRV affordable, he said.

But even 25 per cent is enough to secure up to 250 jobs for 10 years, according to the CAW, which represents the workers in Thunder Bay.

The spinoff potential is critical, said Thunder Bay Mayor Lynn Peterson. "With a contract that big, it could be up to 800 jobs – that's an enormous boon to the community."

The city of 128,000 has lost 2,000 jobs in the forestry sector alone. "Like anybody else, we're waiting and hoping (Bombardier tenders) are successful," Peterson said.

She's been promoting the bid to anyone who will listen, including Toronto Mayor David Miller. "He knows how important it is to Thunder Bay. He knows what I'm going to say when he sees me coming."

She also knows Miller is bound by the TTC's careful procurement process, which is being scrutinized by fairness monitors to avoid a repeat of the 2006 controversy in which new subway cars were sole-sourced to Bombardier.

And the rivalry goes on. Siemens and Bombardier are both in the running to build an automatic signal system for the subway. That's expected to be announced on the same day as the LRV deal: April 27.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TORONTO'S NEW LRVS

What: 204 larger Light Rail Vehicles to replace city's existing streetcar fleet, with an option for 364 more to run on seven planned Transit City light rail lines.

When: TTC is to approve a contract with Siemens Canada or Bombardier on April 27. Delivery of first cars in 2010.

FEATURES

Longer: Cars 27 to 30 metres long, with three to five articulated sections.

Load: Carry 200 comfortably, 270 at crush times (vs. 132 in today's regular cars; 204 on articulated models).

Low floor: Riders board at curb height on 100 per cent low-floor streetcars. No stairs inside, but a slight incline is possible over the wheelworks.

Efficient: Cars will run on electricity conducted via wires on the roof, as now, but using 10 to 20 per cent less power. Contain more recyclable parts.

Climate: Heated and air-conditioned. Riders will also enjoy better views through larger windows.

Boarding: Riders can board from all doors and pay using smartcard readers.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 08:49 AM   #398
ssiguy2
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I don't get it. Just a few months ago the TTC said to Bombardier that they don't have the LRTs that come up to what the TTC wants and now they are being considered again???? How is this possible?
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Old April 20th, 2009, 07:14 AM   #399
Filip
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They simply told Bombardier to come back when they fixed the issues associated with their bid.

Nobody is going to tell arguably the greatest manufacturer of light rail to hit the road!
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Old April 20th, 2009, 05:55 PM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen View Post
Bombardier Transportation was an European firm to begin with. It was Adtranz which was bought by Bombardier, Adtranz was originally a division of Daimler AG.
Wrong! Perhaps, you should do your homework a little more thoroughly. Bombardier had a large Montreal based rail division before the Adtranz purchase. The Adtranz purchase boosted Bombardier's market share in rail to #1 globally. To say that Bombardier Transportation was a European firm to begin with is incorrect. It would be like Bombardier buying Embraer, moving global head office to Brazil, and then saying that Bombardier Aerospace was Brazilian to begin with. It's just not the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Alte View Post

Take a pill buddy.

If you don't like the fact Bombardier doesn't have a head office in Montreal for rail, go buy some shares, a lot of shares, attend a shareholder's meeting and tell them what you think. Maybe somebody from Bombardier might care then. They are a private company that can operate how it pleases.

Has Canada poured BILLIONS into Bombardier?
Holy cow you make a lot of assumptions about people you don't know. How do you know I don't do all of those things already? Exactly, you don't. If Volkswagen wanted to move their head office to Montreal, I bet a lot of Germans would have something to say about that regardless of whether they are private. They'd have every reason to as well. Bombardier may be private, but Canadians have every reason to be disappointed and critical of their decision to move the rail division HQ out of Canada. That was clearly not in Canada's national interest.

Has Canada poured billions into Bombardier? You bet we have. So, it's you who can take a pill, not I, and I certainly wouldn't associate with someone as toxic as you. Buddy? I don't think so. You may not, but a lot of other people around the world understand the importance of a national industrial strategy. Thank god for that!

Perhaps, Germany is where you belong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The other key requirement: 25 per cent, or about $300 million, of the fleet order has to involve Canadian parts and labour.

That's not much compared with job-protection policies abroad, says John Cartwright, president of the Toronto and York Region Labour Council. The U.S. demands 60 per cent American content.
That's what struck me as well. 25% seems far too little of a requirement. If Bombardier wants to wrap itself in the flag, they can put their money where their mouth is. If Siemens wants the contract they should have to meet a higher % Canadian content requirement as well.
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Last edited by isaidso; April 20th, 2009 at 06:30 PM.
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