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Old April 24th, 2009, 09:44 PM   #401
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TTC picks Bombardier
This rendering shows a proposed TTC streetcar design from Bombardier.


Apr 24, 2009 11:11 AM
TESS KALINOWSKI
Transportation Reporter


In a move bound to have Thunder Bay residents cheering today, the TTC has chosen Montreal-based Bombardier for its billion-dolllar streetcar contract.

The TTC announced this morning that it has chosen Bombardier's Flexity Outlook car as the base model on which to customize a sleek, new Euro-style ride for Toronto.

At least 25 per cent of the car must be made with Canadian parts and labour and Bombardier has said its Thunder Bay plant is ready to roll.

Bombardier beat out Siemens Canada – part of a German-based company – for the contract worth between $1.25 billion and $3 billion.

The initial order will be for 204 30-metre long cars to replace the TTC's existing 30-year-old fleet of 248 Canadian Light Rail Vehicles (CLRVs) and Articulated Light Rail Vehicles (ALRVs) that run on 11 city routes.

The contract will also include an option to build another 364 cars to run on the city's planned Transit City light rail lines into the suburbs.

The cars have the capacity to carry about twice as many people as the old version. They will feature an enclosed driver compartment, boarding from all doors and a computerized fare system to accommodate the new fare technology the TTC is likely to introduce in coming years.

The first of the cars are scheduled to be in the city for testing in 2011 and will be in service by 2012, TTC officials said.

The recommendation to have Bombardier build the cars will go before city councillors on the Toronto Transit Commission for approval Monday.

The award follows about two years of controversy. The TTC went to a strictly monitored request for proposals process on the streetcar contract after it awarded the contract for new subway cars to Bombardier in 2006 without negotiating with competing manufacturers.

The $710 million deal was designed to support the struggling Thunder Bay economy. But Siemens and some city councillors said it might have robbed Toronto taxpayers of the opportunity to get a better deal on the subway cars.

But when the TTC started the RFP process for the streetcars only two companies submitted bids: Bombardier and a small British firm, TRAM Power.

The TTC said both bids failed to meet its requirements and suggested that Bombardier's car, versions of which run in cities around the world, wasn't technically able to take Toronto's tight turns.

The RFP was cancelled and the TTC went to a negotiated bidding process using the same technical specifications. Bombardier re-entered the race and was joined by Siemens.
source: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/623916
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Old April 24th, 2009, 11:16 PM   #402
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Finally!! The CLRV's are falling apart.
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Old April 25th, 2009, 07:21 AM   #403
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Quote:
Bombardier wins massive Toronto streetcar contract
The deal for 204 cars is the biggest ever light-rail vehicle purchase in North American history

JEFF GRAY

Globe and Mail Update

April 24, 2009 at 10:08 PM EDT

TORONTO
— TTC officials have chosen Montreal-based Bombardier Inc. to build Toronto's next generation of streetcars – a record contract worth $1.22-billion – but major questions remain about who will pay for the new vehicles and how much of the work on them will take place in Canada.

The recommendation comes almost a year after the Toronto Transit Commission rejected a first proposed streetcar from Bombardier, warning that it would derail on the system's tight turns and steep hills. TTC officials and the company say the latest design would work on the city's tracks.

But the mammoth order for 204 larger, modern, air-conditioned, accessible-to-the-disabled streetcars to replace the city's 30-year-old existing fleet cannot go ahead without federal and provincial funding. So far no cheques are in the mail, and the nine city councillors who oversee the TTC will be asked Monday to approve the deal contingent on funding.

While Adam Giambrone, chairman of the TTC, said he was optimistic the money would come before a June deadline that would see Bombardier's offer expire, a senior Queen's Park source yesterday sounded less than enthusiastic: “We have no plans to make an announcement, and no plans to have any plans on this one.”

Meanwhile, the deal was structured to force whomever won the contract to manufacture at least 25 per cent of the new streetcar in Canada. Both Bombardier, and its only rival, Germany's Siemens – which it significantly underbid to win the contract – had agreed to those terms.

But Mr. Giambrone said Friday that he and Mayor David Miller would now push for more Canadian content, which could mean more jobs at Bombardier's plant in Thunder Bay, Ont., and at parts plants in the Toronto area.

“We recognize that in a time like this jobs are very important to protect,” Mr. Giambrone said.

The TTC chairman said the city would approach both the province and Ottawa, normally expected to cover two-thirds of this kind of project, about whether they would be willing to pay more to ensure more of the vehicle was made in Canada.

Bombardier spokesman David Slack said the firm was open to upping the amount of Canadian work. As it stands now, parts of the vehicle would likely be built at Bombardier's light-rail plants in Vienna and in Sahagun, Mexico, and then assembled in Thunder Bay.

But Bombardier officials, along with the Canadian Auto Workers union that represents staff at the Thunder Bay plant, had previously called for as much as 50-per-cent Canadian content in the deal.

The TTC's 25-per-cent figure, subsequently endorsed by the province, was set after a consultants' report warned that a higher bar would scare off foreign bidders and mean handing the deal directly to Bombardier.

The transit agency was stung by controversy in 2006, when the mayor and the commission – over the objections of then-TTC chief general manager Rick Ducharme – chose to award a $674-million subway contract to Bombardier without allowing foreign bids, in an effort to create jobs in Thunder Bay.

Speaking to reporters, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty said talks were continuing but was non-committal about helping to pay for the new cars, pointing to his recent pledge of $7.2-billion for transit in Toronto, including two of the mayor's proposed Transit City light-rail lines.

However, those lines, on Finch and a partially tunnelled line on Eglinton, are supposed to use some of 400 additional new streetcars included as options in the proposed base contract for 204 that the TTC unveiled yesterday.

Chris Day, press secretary for federal Transport Minister John Baird, said his office received letter from Mr. Miller yesterday, formally asking for federal stimulus funds to pay for the streetcar order. Mr. Day said Toronto's request would be considered: “We want to ensure Toronto gets its fair share.”
source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
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Old April 25th, 2009, 08:52 AM   #404
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Thank god they FINALLY made a decision. Although I think due to politics Bomardier would get the contract but that said it was also the best choice. Yes it will help Thunder Bay but besides that Siemens LRT trains have had problems all over the place. It seems they are developing small cracks. This has been happening all over including Melbourne and many European cities. It has cost Siemen's a small fortune having to fix them to say nothing of the fact that they are all been taking off line til it is fixed. It only takes a small fix job but still some of the LRT are out of servicer for a week or two.
It has been a real embarrasment to Siemens.
The LRT cars look OK but the pics of Flexity Outlook vehicles at the Bombardier website look more modern and streamlined.
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Old April 25th, 2009, 05:34 PM   #405
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Politics, Shcmolitiks. Bombardier posted a lower bid, and won.

It's amazing no one complains about Edmonton, and Calgary picking Siemens without any sort of tendering proces.

I have a feeling that Toronto would have received either the Combino Plus(which is a totally different model from the Combino), or the newer Avenio model.

http://www.transportation.siemens.co...452-x-7600.pdf
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Old April 28th, 2009, 05:08 PM   #406
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Bombardier wins C$1.2 bln Toronto streetcar bid

TORONTO, April 27 (Reuters) - Toronto's transit authority confirmed on Monday it will award a C$1.2 billion ($980 million) contract to build a fleet of streetcars to Canadian transportation giant Bombardier Inc .

Bombardier will provide 204 streetcars to Toronto, Canada's most populous city. The city has an option to purchase another 400 streetcars for the second phase of the contract.

On Friday, a Toronto Transit Commission staff report formally recommended that a bid by Bombardier be accepted over a bid from Siemens Canada Ltd . Commission members voted on Monday to accept the recommendation.

Paul Pugh, president of Canadian Auto Workers local 1075 at the Bombardier plant in Thunder Bay, Ontario, where the streetcars will be built, said the initial order will mean up to 300 jobs and provide work for up to eight years.

"It's huge, because the Thunder Bay economy has been devastated because the base of the economy is forestry and mining, and there are simply no jobs left in those sectors," he said.

The Ontario government and the government of Canada are expected to pony up two-thirds of the cost of the project.

A prototype vehicle is to be delivered in 2011, with all 204 cars delivered by 2018. The TTC will also require a new maintenance plant for the streetcars, estimated to cost C$345 million. The plant is not part of the contract.

Bombardier's shares slipped 1.7 percent to C$3.58 on the Toronto Stock Exchange on Monday.

($1=$1.22 Canadian)
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Old April 28th, 2009, 06:16 PM   #407
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nothing's carved yet. Toronto still doesn't have the money to buy it and the contract is contingent upon Toronto getting support from the Federal government. The Canadian Federal government however, as corrupt and idiotic as they are, is sounding like they don't want to fund the project.

Our head of government and its finance department is a sign of the down fall of Canada, or whatever pieces of the country that hasn't fallen already.

The modern day Conservative Party in Canada is the worst thing that has ever happened to this country.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 06:29 PM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
The modern day Conservative Party in Canada is the worst thing that has ever happened to this country.
Even Conservatives cannot argue Harper's brand of Conservatism is dying a slow death.

I have faith, that the money will come though.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 07:06 PM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
nothing's carved yet. Toronto still doesn't have the money to buy it and the contract is contingent upon Toronto getting support from the Federal government. The Canadian Federal government however, as corrupt and idiotic as they are, is sounding like they don't want to fund the project.

Our head of government and its finance department is a sign of the down fall of Canada, or whatever pieces of the country that hasn't fallen already.

The modern day Conservative Party in Canada is the worst thing that has ever happened to this country.
The government seems so caught up in immediate stimulus that they're forgetting about long-term stimulus, which these streetcars represent. The City has until the end of June to convince the higher levels of government to pitch in their share. Couldn't they fund it as an environmental measure? Here's a piece from today's Globe:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Globe and Mail
Streetcars may not qualify for stimulus, says Baird
JEFF GRAY


April 28, 2009

Toronto's transit agency formally approved plans to buy 204 new streetcars from Montreal-based Bombardier yesterday, but Transport Minister John Baird said the $1.2-billion deal might not qualify for funds from Ottawa's stimulus package.

"We want to create jobs now. That's a 10-year contract," he told reporters.

Toronto Transit Commission officials have said the Bombardier deal cannot go ahead unless the federal and provincial governments each commit to cover at least one-third of the cost before a June 27 deadline.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 07:22 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Gil View Post
The government seems so caught up in immediate stimulus that they're forgetting about long-term stimulus, which these streetcars represent. The City has until the end of June to convince the higher levels of government to pitch in their share. Couldn't they fund it as an environmental measure? Here's a piece from today's Globe:
Load of bullcrap. Harper don't want to fund the project because he knows that Toronto isn't voting for him in the next election either way. Whatever Flaherty spits out of his mouth in excuse is as worthwhile to listen to as the sound of me opening a coke can. Corrupt partisan politics at its peak.

Ontario I believe has already given its share.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 08:57 PM   #411
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Ontario I believe has already given its share.
Noooooonononono, Ontario is claiming that they knew nothing of this coming need... which tells you how out of the loop they are on their files. Smitherman and Bradley should both be embarrassed by not being aware of this critical need, which is a problem caused by the Ontario Government of the 1970s!!!

And Bradley says he used to teach history.
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Old May 11th, 2009, 07:39 PM   #412
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Playing games with public transit
30 April 2009
The Globe and Mail

A few weeks ago, Premier Dalton McGuinty proudly announced $9-billion in new spending for three major light-rail lines in Toronto. Yesterday, he scolded Toronto Mayor David Miller for ordering trains to run on the new lines.

Like Infrastructure Minister George Smitherman a day earlier, the Premier pretended to be surprised that Toronto had signed a deal with Bombardier to supply new streetcars to replace the TTC's current fleet – and ultimately to run along the new light-rail lines the province has agreed to build. The deal depends on the federal and provincial governments to supply two-thirds of the more-than $2-billion cost, and both are balking.

The city keeps changing its demands, the Premier complained. Who said anything about streetcars? “We're trying to figure out where that ranks on the list of priorities.”

The province's shock at the prospect of buying new light-rail cars to serve its own light-rail plan recalls the famous evening a dozen years ago when addled old Metro Council voted to build the Sheppard subway “affordably” by eliminating tracks. But that lot was just confused. The new guys are playing games.

If Mr. Smitherman really did learn of the contract for the first time last week, as he claimed this Tuesday, he should resign.

City and TTC officials attest to dozens of consultations with their provincial counterparts on this issue, going back months if not years. Council made the request for assistance in a unanimous vote months ago and the mayor repeated it in subsequent pre-budget “asks” to both the provincial and federal governments. For the minister in charge of the file not to know the TTC needs streetcars – and was actively negotiating to acquire them – is inexcusable.

And to pretend not to know when he does full well? That's politics.

“My daddy taught me if you have 100 priorities, you don't have any,” Mr. Smitherman said, sanctimoniously dismissing outrageous demands for both tracks and trains. That would explain how wee Georgie, whose first and only priority always has been and always will be his own self, got so far in life.

If it was just him complaining, the case would be understandable. Mr. Smitherman has never forgiven Mr. Miller for knocking off his pick, Barbara Hall, in the 2003 mayoral election. Knowing he would be unlikely to beat Mr. Miller in the 2010 election winds him up even more. He has settled for strutting belligerently on the sidelines while the Premier negotiates directly with the mayor on all important matters of municipal-provincial relations.

But real trouble beckons when the Premier starts parroting the same rankly disingenuous complaints. Such behaviour reminds us, recent progress notwithstanding, that there is nothing more tragic than transit planning in Ontario. No matter how rational the plans, politicians always find a way to ruin them.

Denied the chance to build subways without tracks, they build subways to nowhere instead. They force responsible agencies to buy shoddy equipment from government-owned suppliers and force responsible suppliers to provide shoddy equipment. They engage in endless turf wars on the composition of useless boards. They reduce the most important, expensive decisions a city can make to childish games.

Now might seem a good time to get serious, what with billions of dollars of “stimulus funding” in the offing. But no, the politicians say: Let the games begin!
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Old May 12th, 2009, 12:25 PM   #413
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Funny... Those renders look a lot like our Bombardier CityRunners here in Brussels, only the livery and the front door are different...



br
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Old May 12th, 2009, 09:04 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBeeke View Post


Funny... Those renders look a lot like our Bombardier CityRunners here in Brussels, only the livery and the front door are different...
Wow, do I see on this render a classic pole collector? If yes, I guess this would be the first new streetcar with such equipment in many, many years, and I guess definitely first low-floor, articulated
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Old May 14th, 2009, 07:33 PM   #415
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eh pitty cause streetcars with trolleypoles are historical error.

streetcar doesn't need external disturbance like trolley pole


cause pantograph half pantograph is much more simple way and for streetcar.

trolley pole itself is a problem and it's catenary too. it needs more hangers cables and the view is bad
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Old May 14th, 2009, 09:19 PM   #416
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eh pitty cause streetcars with trolleypoles are historical error.

streetcar doesn't need external disturbance like trolley pole


cause pantograph half pantograph is much more simple way and for streetcar.

trolley pole itself is a problem and it's catenary too. it needs more hangers cables and the view is bad
It makes no difference. If Toronto wants to go with trolleypoles, then so be it.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 10:10 AM   #417
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It makes no difference. If Toronto wants to go with trolleypoles, then so be it.
As a matter of fact, it does. Trolley poles are prone to skip the right wire, especially on turnouts, and are not suitable for higher speeds, also it is difficult to reverse the train. Good point is, however that any type of pantograph can be used on catenary for trolley poles (but not the other way round). So if a right person would care, it's not a problem to install pantographs in new cars. My city went through that in 1930's/40's.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 03:23 PM   #418
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As a matter of fact, it does. Trolley poles are prone to skip the right wire, especially on turnouts, and are not suitable for higher speeds, also it is difficult to reverse the train. Good point is, however that any type of pantograph can be used on catenary for trolley poles (but not the other way round). So if a right person would care, it's not a problem to install pantographs in new cars. My city went through that in 1930's/40's.
No it doesn't. Toronto's system is set up for Trolleypoles, not pantographs. This is why they are sticking with poles, until the TTC decides to re-equip the entire system for pans. I live in Toronto, use the system everyday. The streetcars have absolutely no problem with switching wires, and even reversing(rare, since every streetcar line is equipped with turning loops anyways). If Toronto used Pans, they would most likely damage the hangars, and frogs. Reconstructed portions of the line were designed for both pans, and poles, but at the moment, most of the system is suitable for poles, and not pans.
Also the "city" car will be single-ended.
This is total nonsense to debate whetever poles or pans are better. Both work just fine in an urban environment.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 09:13 PM   #419
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Quote:
Toronto gets nearly $1-billion for light rail

JEFF GRAY

Globe and Mail Update

May 15, 2009 at 11:41 AM EDT

TORONTO
— Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty this morning are announcing funding for Toronto Mayor David Miller's $950-million plans for a light-rail line along Sheppard Avenue at a press conference about to get under way.

The 15-kilometre Sheppard line is to run from Don Mills subway station to Meadowvale Road in Scarborough, and TTC officials plan to start construction this fall.

Part of the mayor's 120-kilometre Transit City light-rail plan, the new line is to run in its own dedicated lanes along Sheppard Avenue East.

Ontario will provide two-thirds of the estimated $950 million cost of the project, and the federal government will cover the remaining one-third.


Prime Minister Stephen Harper speaks as he announces funding for a $950-million light-rail line along Sheppard Avenue in Toronto on Friday.

The TTC has been looking for funding for a $1.2-billion plan to replace its aging fleet of streetcars, but so far Ottawa and the province have refused to commit to that project.

Construction on the Sheppard project will generate about 9,500 construction jobs before it's completed in 2013.

With files from Canadian Press
source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home


Also, here`s a render of the new street cars
image hosted on flickr

source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbla...7594052460678/
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Last edited by Skybean; May 15th, 2009 at 09:25 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 09:51 PM   #420
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I do not think they will look like Brussels cars. The Flexity Swift model can be customized.

I hope they do though!

The Brussels Flexities are my favorite trams by a long mile.



Flexity Outlook model in Lodz Poland.

Last edited by JustinB; May 15th, 2009 at 10:06 PM.
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