daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 16th, 2009, 07:06 AM   #421
UD2
A very cool person
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,294
Likes (Received): 31

scroll up and you'll see what the trams will look like in Toronto.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower
UD2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 17th, 2009, 03:20 AM   #422
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
No it doesn't. Toronto's system is set up for Trolleypoles, not pantographs. This is why they are sticking with poles, until the TTC decides to re-equip the entire system for pans. I live in Toronto, use the system everyday. The streetcars have absolutely no problem with switching wires, and even reversing(rare, since every streetcar line is equipped with turning loops anyways). If Toronto used Pans, they would most likely damage the hangars, and frogs. Reconstructed portions of the line were designed for both pans, and poles, but at the moment, most of the system is suitable for poles, and not pans.
Also the "city" car will be single-ended.
This is total nonsense to debate whetever poles or pans are better. Both work just fine in an urban environment.
Plans exist to convert the legacy network to pantograph. It will take some time though, it's a tedious process apparently.
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2009, 07:58 PM   #423
Filip
Torontonian 4ever
 
Filip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,891
Likes (Received): 435

What does the conversion imply? I can only imagine sticking a pantograph instead of trolley should be enough...
Filip no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 18th, 2009, 04:49 AM   #424
UD2
A very cool person
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,294
Likes (Received): 31



Depending on how wide the pantograph is and how close street fixtures and plantation are located with respect to the power lines.

and plus, how well do pantographs work together with these.

image hosted on flickr
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower

DanielFA liked this post
UD2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 19th, 2009, 12:01 PM   #425
zivan56
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 471
Likes (Received): 2

Someone made a site about the issue...a good read:
http://lrt.daxack.ca/Overhead/index.html

Quote:
The capital budget for the TTC contains a project for converting the entire network of overhead wiring by 2012.
zivan56 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 19th, 2009, 05:15 PM   #426
JustinB
Registered User
 
JustinB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,633
Likes (Received): 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ View Post
Plans exist to convert the legacy network to pantograph. It will take some time though, it's a tedious process apparently.
The TTC has a knack for making any project tedious.
JustinB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2009, 03:37 AM   #427
TRZ
Welcome to the Rail World
 
TRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,671
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
The TTC has a knack for making any project tedious.
It wouldn't be the first time, now would it?
__________________
Pssst... your balls are showing...

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEME transit geek
TRZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 21st, 2009, 06:56 PM   #428
JustinB
Registered User
 
JustinB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,633
Likes (Received): 30

haha! Nope
JustinB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 21st, 2009, 07:06 PM   #429
UD2
A very cool person
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,294
Likes (Received): 31



too cynical.

Rebuilding entire overhead wire networks is a tedious task for anyone who attempt it.

As for the TTC, the current system works fine and there is no point in fixing something that isn't broken. There are better ways to spend their money.

Build new networks to be pentograph ready, but the old ones are fine until their useful life runs out.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower
UD2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2009, 10:43 PM   #430
He Named Thor
Just kidding.
 
He Named Thor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beautiful Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 673
Likes (Received): 50

Aww, the current streetcars are iconic! They aren't bad to ride either, though I don't live there so I don't ride them every day.

Since someone mentioned it, here's some photos of Kenosha's old Toronto streetcars that I took the other day:





I like Toronto's current streetcars better.
__________________

DanielFA liked this post
He Named Thor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2009, 03:15 AM   #431
APTA-2048
Registered User
 
APTA-2048's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 18
Likes (Received): 0

Nice photos of the Kenosha car.

Here's one I took of one of the two remaining PCC cars the TTC has. It ocassionally comes out for special events.

image hosted on flickr
APTA-2048 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2009, 03:01 AM   #432
savevp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6
Likes (Received): 0

Transit City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
Didn't know Toronto also had articulated streetcars, I always saw pics of the single cars.

Anyway, the tram system is still fairly traditional compared to modern tram / light rail systems: Toronto's trams are short high floor vehicles, don't have their own right of way, etcetera. Are there any plans to buy new vehicles or upgrade the system?

Toronto is getting a new LRT system called Transit City. The streetcars will be replaced with conventional Light Rail Vehicles (LRVs) and there will be approximatly 150km of new routes to add to the system. This will comliment the traditional low-floor service you mentioned.
savevp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2009, 06:38 PM   #433
Made In Canada
Registered User
 
Made In Canada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 22
Likes (Received): 0

I hate the streetcars here in Toronto... can't wait for the new ones to come into service. The ones we have now always break down and were left waiting 30 + min for a bus to come. Hard to keep your balance when standing up on them as well.
Made In Canada no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 12:53 AM   #434
UD2
A very cool person
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,294
Likes (Received): 31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Made In Canada View Post
Hard to keep your balance when standing up on them as well.
Current ones are about as smooth as they get. The newer low floors will likely have stiffer suspension and therefore have a more bumpy due to lower clearance in the truck wells.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower
UD2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2009, 07:38 AM   #435
Gil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,120
Likes (Received): 38

The Toronto Star is reporting that some sort of agreement has been reached with the senior levels of government and that a funding announcement will be made on Friday, just in time to keep the contract going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Toronto Star
Green light for new streetcars
Jun 17, 2009 11:10 PM
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation reporter



SUPPLIED IMAGE
Bombardier’s Euro-style streetcars could grace Toronto routes by 2012.

Premier Dalton McGuinty and Toronto Mayor David Miller are expected to announce in Thunder Bay Friday that the TTC's plan to buy 204 European-style streetcars finally is a go.

Federal officials Wednesday night refused to confirm that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will also attend the event, and it is still unclear whether Ottawa has stepped up with stimulus cash to pay a third of the $1.2 billion cost of the TTC's agreement with Bombardier to build the cars.

That deal was to expire June 27.

Transport Minister John Baird dismissed Toronto's sole request for a share of the economic stimulus pot – money for streetcars – with a well-publicized expletive last week. But he later apologized, saying the "best is yet to come" for transit, and suggested Ottawa would continue to work with the city to make sure Toronto wasn't overlooked.

The streetcars would replace the TTC's decrepit 30-year-old fleet that runs on 11 of the city's busiest transit routes.

Without new cars, the TTC would have to undertake a major rebuild of its current vehicles, something that would cost at least $100 million and take years. Meantime, the cars are failing so fast the TTC anticipates having to use buses on some routes later this year.

Government and Bombardier officials were tight-lipped Wednesday over details of Friday's announcement.

But a city hall source said a report showing the streetcar contract would directly create 5,700 jobs "is very compelling."

Released by the mayor's office Tuesday, the report was prepared for Bombardier by an outside consultant. It says the streetcars that would be built at Bombardier's Thunder Bay plant would directly generate 5,700 jobs, including 5,000 in Ontario.

About 350 of those jobs would be located in the Toronto area, and the contract would create a further 4,100 indirect jobs here. If the federal and provincial governments invested in the streetcars, they would recoup about $500 million in tax revenue, the report says.

It's estimated that Toronto is eligible for about $312 million of the federal government's $4 billion economic stimulus fund.

A spokesperson for Baird said his office received the report only Wednesday. But Chris Day said the government is "committed to ensuring that Toronto gets its fair share."

"The city is an important part of our Economic Action Plan. The city has been hit by the global recession. With any investment we make in the city, our goal is to create jobs for the people of Toronto over the next two years – when they need them most," he said.

Baird is expected to remain in Ottawa Friday.

Queen's Park officials said it was still being determined whether Infrastructure Minister George Smitherman, the province's point person on the streetcars, would attend the announcement.

A streetcar announcement would be welcome news in the North, said Paul Pugh, head of the CAW local at the Bombardier plant.

"Assuming this goes through, it's going to be a huge thing for the city of Thunder Bay, to say nothing of the plant itself. This would provide much sought-after stability both for the city and the plant," he said.

"With 10 years of work, it will encourage Bombardier to make a much-needed investment in the plant in upgrading machinery and technology," he added.

Bombardier officials refused to comment.

The Quebec-based company won the contract after a tightly scrutinized procurement process and a competitive bid by German-based Siemens Canada. The new light rail vehicles, which will be similar to those in use in Brussels, will cost about $4.9 million each and accommodate 260 riders. They're longer than the existing cars and are expected to be tested on the city's tight turns and steep hills in 2011 before going into service in 2012.

The province has already agreed to pay for two-thirds of the $950 million to build Toronto a new Transit City light rail line on Sheppard Ave. Ottawa has agreed to one third of that cost, which includes the light rail vehicles.

In April, Queen's Park announced $7.2 billion for light rail lines running along Eglinton and Finch Ave. W., and to refurbish the Scarborough RT – the cost of which also includes the vehicles, which would be built as an option to the contract for the TTC's 204 replacement cars.

It's expected to take about another decade to replace the TTC's current fleet of 248 cars.

With files from Robert Benzie
Gil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2009, 07:20 AM   #436
allurban
All Urban
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 4,348
Likes (Received): 6

This is going down to the wire

Quote:
Tories on streetcar cash: Absolutely not - http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/654196

Comments on this story (78)
Richard J. Brennan
OTTAWA BUREAU
OTTAWA – Transportation Minister John Baird has urged Toronto to come up with a list of other infrastructure projects in a letter where he drives a final stake into the heart of the city's plans for federal funding for new streetcars.

Baird, in a polite but blunt letter to Toronto Mayor David Miller, makes it clear that the city's wish list for federal cash for new streetcars and a replacement carhouse don't qualify under Ottawa's Infrastructure Fund.

The correspondence shatters Miller's hopes that Ottawa would come up with the money before the streetcar agreement between Bombardier and the TTC expires June 27.

"Unfortunately, these projects are not eligible under this fund. I hope that, after reading this letter, you will understand why that is the case and will be ready to work with me to find other projects to work together on to build infrastructure in the City of Toronto," Baird states in the letter sent today.

Miller told the Star today he saw the letter as an "olive branch" from Baird because it requests the city to come up with a suitable list of projects, which could well give Toronto funding room for the streetcars.

"I take that request as an olive branch ... and provided that we can work in partnership to ensure that leaves $300 million of room for the City of Toronto then that would mean we would be able to find a way to work towards the streetcar project ... which is too important to the city to let fail," the mayor said.

Toronto's streetcars carry some 250,000 passengers daily "so we have to find a way to get this order done." Miller said.

The province and the city had pinned their hopes on Ottawa kicking in more than $300 million as its portion of the $1.2 billion cost for buying 204 new streetcars. The carhouse was over and above that.

Baird insisted that while Ontario municipalities successfully submitted 2,700 project applications using the federal government's simplified online application, Toronto failed to do so.

"Unfortunately, Toronto was not among them. The project that your officials tried to submit clearly did not meet the criteria and so could not be submitted," he stated in the letter obtained by the Toronto Star.

Baird was more explicit about his frustration with Toronto's application during a meeting in British Columbia when he was overhead using profanity.

First and foremost, said Baird, all projects funded from the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund must be completed by March 31, 2011.

"This is clearly not the case with the Light Rail Vehicles and the carhouse. The first of the Light Rail Vehicles will not even be delivered until late 2012 at the earliest, and the project will not be complete until 2018, a full seven years past the deadline. Similarly, the carhouse will not even start, let alone finish construction until after March 31, 2011," he stated.

Baird said the majority of the costs involved in this project over the next two years are not in Toronto and are not for the construction of public infrastructure.

"The streetcars are only guaranteed to contain 25 percent Canadian content, and large portion of the requested funding would go to re-tooling a Bombardier plant in Thunder Bay. This fund was created to build public infrastructure, not modernize factories," the minister stated.

Baird said despite all that he asked federal officials to carefully study the city's request and work with Toronto officials to see if it could be made to qualify, adding that it could not be done.

He said the proposed project may well be an "excellent project of great benefit to the people of Toronto, however ... it simply does not fit within the criteria of the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund."

Baird said he was certain Toronto has many worthwhile projects that would be eligible for the stimulus funding and urged the city to get on with making application for federal cash."I have heard that there are many worthwhile projects ready to go today to improve and renew Toronto's infrastructure. These projects would benefit the people of Toronto by improving roads, water and sewer systems, parks and recreational facilities," he stated."It would be a tragedy if the federal government spent $4 billion on infrastructure stimulus across the country but was unable to spend any of this on projects in Toronto. I will not let this happen. I hope that the federal government will have a cooperative partner in the City of Toronto."

Spending for the streetcar contract was approved by City Council as an equal three-way split and now that Ottawa has pulled out council would have to authorize any new spending.

This could be complicated by the fact that city workers are in a legal strike position after midnight tomorrow (Sunday), which means in the event of a walkout all city meetings would be cancelled in the event of a walk, including city council.

Miller said he was not concerned since the city has an established five-year capital projects list that senior city staff could draw on.
Politics as usual

Cheers, m
__________________
Follow TRANSIT - the Association for the Improvement of Mass-Transit

w. http://transitmy.org
e. [email protected]
tw. http://twitter.com/transitmy
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/TRANSI...12392362108880
allurban no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2009, 02:02 PM   #437
Teach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 362
Likes (Received): 19

Quote:
Also, here`s a render of the new street cars
image hosted on flickr
Actually, that's not really a render: it's simply a picture of a Brussels Flexity, with the Toronto colors photoshopped on. The original Brussels number (3001) is even still visible.

Excellent choice if Toronto goes for the same design: they're some of the best-looking modern trams around. Belgian company Enthoven associates (who designed the exterior and interior of these trams) won several design awards for the Brussels Flexity Outlook trams.
Teach no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2009, 01:11 AM   #438
Skybean
天豆
 
Skybean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,937
Likes (Received): 271

What an abject failure!


Quote:
Streetcar tab soars as Miller’s gamble fails
Jun 26, 2009 04:30 AM
Tess Kalinowski
transportation reporter

Toronto will have to pay $417 million more for new streetcars after the federal government refused to buckle under pressure from Mayor David Miller for stimulus cash.

At a special meeting today, in the midst of a strike by city workers, council is expected to approve a plan that will see its existing $355 million commitment rise to $772 million. The province will cover the remaining $416 million of the $1.2 billion project.

The city plans to cover the extra cost by using money earmarked for six other TTC capital projects, which will be put off.

The development means the deal, two years in the making, will be approved just before tomorrow's midnight deadline in the agreement between manufacturer Bombardier and the TTC.

Miller is scrambling because he lost a high-stakes gamble with federal Infrastructure Minister John Baird. Toronto had asked Ottawa for more than $300 million for the project, its only application for federal stimulus cash.

Baird dismissed the request with a "f--- off" earlier this month.

For weeks Miller has insisted the project qualifies for Toronto's $312 million share of the stimulus package, only to be told repeatedly by Ottawa it does not qualify because it fails to create jobs in Toronto in the next two years.

The 204 streetcars, which will replace the TTC's aging fleet, would boost jobs in Thunder Bay. Streetcars would roll out of the plant from 2011 to 2018.

Miller said yesterday the city will seek its share of the $4 billion stimulus fund for other projects, such as road and sewer repairs.

"We're working with Ottawa cooperatively at the officials level to see if other items in our capital budget can be suitable for stimulus. I'm hopeful of a positive result there," Miller said.

"(City manager) Mr. (Joe) Pennachetti has advised Ottawa officials of everything in our approved capital budgets that could possibly meet the criteria and be done in time. Officials are literally working on it as we speak."

Miller said the streetcar deal with Bombardier was too good to pass up. Rival bidder Siemens Canada had submitted a price $500 million higher than Bombardier's at the end of a two-year bid process.

While the TTC will get its streetcars, it will have to put off six capital projects scheduled from 2012 and 2018. They include a new Eglinton bus terminal, fire ventilation, station modernizations, and renewal of collector booths, some paving and a bus rebuild.

The TTC had to prioritize the streetcars over other projects, said TTC chair Adam Giambrone.

"At the end of the day they move the people," he said.

Although the projects are important, none of the delays will compromise TTC service or safety, said Giambrone.

"We are going to need to spend the next six years looking for ways to get additional transit support," he said.

Councillors will meet at the Toronto Convention Centre today to avoid strikebound City Hall, even though striking city workers, member of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, say they'll let the meeting go ahead without picketing.

"We recognize that good jobs are vital to Ontario communities," Mark Ferguson and Ann Dembinski, who lead the striking workers, said in a written statement.

Canadian Auto Workers union president Ken Lewenza spoke to his CUPE counterparts yesterday. His union represents workers at the Bombardier plant, who say the Toronto streetcar contract is an important investment in their jobs and in job creation in Thunder Bay, which has been hard hit by a decline in the forestry industry.

Miller said today's special meeting couldn't be held at City Hall.

"It's our view that it's important not to force residents of Toronto to cross a picket line in order to see the proceedings of their government," he said.

The decision to go off-site quickly became an issue.

Councillor Karen Stintz (Ward 16 Eglinton-Lawrence) wrote a letter to Miller on behalf of 10 councillors who object to the move, saying there is "absolutely no justification" for holding the meeting anywhere but City Hall.

"We have critical business to discuss and council should not have any reservations about crossing picket lines to do so," she wrote.

Stintz said she'll attend the meeting, but Councillor Paul Ainslie (Ward 43, Scarborough East) said he won't come.

"We have asked our non-union staff and all essential staff to report to work," Ainslie said. "Councillors are non-union; why are we not attending our place of employment as we have asked our own staff, and senior staff to do?"

On Wednesday, Bombardier vice-president Mike Hardt said his company needs only a signed letter of agreement by midnight tomorrow to move ahead on the job, believed to be the biggest streetcar order in the world.

The new streetcars will be used on 11 existing routes that carry about 250,000 people a day. The contract carries an option for another 368 light rail vehicles to run on new Transit City lines into the suburbs.

The Ontario government has fed billions into those lines on Sheppard, Eglinton and Finch. Ottawa has pledged a third of the $950 million cost of a new light rail line on Sheppard.

With files from Paul Moloney and John Spears
source: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/657018
__________________
My Photos」 ● Hong Kong 1|2|3 ● Macau 1 ● London 1 ● New York City 1
Photo Threads」 ● Flying Over Hong KongCity Life Series」 ● Hong KongShanghaiSeoulTokyo
Skybean no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2009, 08:35 AM   #439
allurban
All Urban
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 4,348
Likes (Received): 6

apparently there is a lot of sleight of hand going on.

TTC is making room for the streetcars by deferring other capital projects - some that are unnecessary, some that are part of other projects.

They are also hoping that they can push the Federal government to come up with money for "stimulus" projects

So what is really happening here is just a shuffling of money, shifting of paper, and padding of projects.

Politics through and through On the surface it looks like a total failure. Underneath, it looks like a total mess.

Cheers, m
__________________
Follow TRANSIT - the Association for the Improvement of Mass-Transit

w. http://transitmy.org
e. [email protected]
tw. http://twitter.com/transitmy
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/TRANSI...12392362108880
allurban no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2009, 02:54 PM   #440
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,929
Likes (Received): 18195

Rumbling and grumbling on St. Clair
ANDREW WALLACE/TORONTO STAR
Sep 21, 2009 04:30 AM


"It just looks like a sea of concrete," says optician Patricia Raymond.

It's about two years behind schedule, has ballooned in cost by $10 million, and the construction has been interminable.

A highly publicized court challenge by residents delayed it, and everyone from motorists to merchants, cyclists to firefighters, has had their beefs.

But by this time next year the entire six-kilometre dedicated St. Clair streetcar line, from Yonge to just west of Keele St., should be finished. The TTC and the city have touted the right-of-way as the wave of the future – the answer to a cry for more reliable transit service along a busy midtown corridor.

Will those promised gains be worth the pain?

Mayor David Miller is aggressively pushing his multi-billion-dollar Transit City plan, which calls for a network of seven light-rail routes similar to the one on St. Clair, to roll out over the next several years.

The aim is transit that's cheaper and quicker to build than subways and that, with raised curbs and limits on left turns, gets cars out of the way. The Sheppard East LRT, the first Transit City line, is to break ground within weeks.

So St. Clair has become a sort of litmus test.

Large sections are finished or near completion, but there's still fierce debate about its usefulness.

Optician Patricia Raymond, who operates an eyewear business on St. Clair, east of Avenue Rd., doesn't believe the "devastating'' construction work she endured was worth it. The section between Yonge and the St. Clair West subway station was completed in 2007 and runs in front of her store.

"The streets were so backed up (during construction) that it took an hour to drive here from a few blocks away. So people just didn't bother to come, and my business hasn't returned to normal yet,'' says Raymond, who has been operating there for 21 years.

"If you ask me if it was better before, I say yes." The right-of-way "is ugly and it just looks like a sea of concrete now,'' Raymond says.

Too much was sacrificed for what boils down to slightly improved service during rush hour but virtually empty streetcars the rest of the time, Raymond argues.

The TTC has no data yet to indicate how that completed section is performing, TTC chair Adam Giambrone said last week. Studies won't be available until sometime after the full line is operational.

But on the streetcar line, the point isn't really about improving speed, says Giambrone.

"No stops (on the St. Clair line) were removed, unlike the new LRT routes, which actually double or triple the space between stops. That's where you begin to pick up speed,'' he explains.

Buses and streetcars average about 18 km/h; subway trains about 32 km/h. Transit City's light rail cars are expected to hit a happy medium of 24 km/h.

Before construction, the entire St. Clair line served 32,000 passengers a day. It took about 30 minutes to ride from end to end.

The dedicated line won't shave many minutes off that, the TTC admits, but with cars out of the way it will take the guesswork out of travelling. Another streetcar will be always be along soon.

"It's like the old adage: there's always a car in sight on Spadina,'' Giambrone says, referring to the Spadina streetcar right-of-way, which opened in 1997.

The Spadina line went through the same growing pains as St. Clair, but 12 years out, ridership has "almost doubled'' and there's a huge increase in reliability, Giambrone argues. "Three or four years from now, things will be good on St. Clair."

Rider Alan Madras, 50, a computer programmer, says that despite some bugs in the design he already finds the streetcar between the St. Clair West subway and Yonge quite convenient.

Councillor Joe Mihevc got an earful from irate residents and businesses during the 2006 election, when construction had left the stretch in his area – from Bathurst close to Oakwood – looking like a war zone. But he still won that vote handily, in what he calls a referendum on the right-of-way.

"If I'd lost here (Ward 21, St. Paul's), Transit City would not be happening,'' Mihevc now says.

Still, there's widespread grumbling. Delays have added $10 million to the TTC's overall cost for the project – it's now at $75 million, transit commission staff say. One reason is that buses are running along unfinished sections, which carry half as many passengers as streetcars. That means higher costs for fuel and wages.

Mihevc says work on that stretch was slowed significantly because other infrastructure projects – replacing water mains and old gas pipes, burying hydro lines – were piggybacked on the work.

Toronto's fire department also expressed safety concerns about the right of way in an internal report last year that described it as unusable for emergency response, and "without doubt unsafe."

Trucks, it said, would smash into the central power traction poles or suffer damaged tires on the curbs, with the width of the pavement only 6 metres instead of the usual 9.

But Fire Chief Bill Stewart downplayed the report, giving the line a thumbs-up.

TTC staff say city repairs to roads and sidewalks will create a consistent height between the road and right-of-way and better allow movement on and off the line for emergency vehicles. Minor fixes in key areas near some side streets will also improve access.

But critics like Jeff Gillan, executive director of the Corso Italia BIA, which represents businesses near Dufferin and St. Clair, say the project is a great example of how not to build transit.

"The city was incompetent in managing this project. There's no reason for it to have taken this long,'' he says.

He believes about 50 businesses in his BIA, which represents about 200 in all, went down due to the construction. Though many have been replaced, about a half-dozen or so vacancies remain.

He's also annoyed no new Green-P parking lots were built in his area as part of the project.

Meanwhile, there will be five new parking lots when work in Mihevc's portion is complete, where before there was zero off-street parking.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium