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Old December 2nd, 2012, 06:03 AM   #501
Innsertnamehere
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A picture of the first new streetcar arriving in the city:


http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthr...etcars/page105
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 07:43 PM   #502
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Quote:
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Is that ethical, sounds terribly unhealthy even corrupt?
Corruption in the awarding of infrastructure projects in Canada?........never accured to me.

Yes, it is unhealthy and very corrupt. Bombardier has been the beneficiary of a lot of government money over the years primarily due to being a Montreal based company and Quebec has always been the spoiled child of confederation. That is how Bombardier has developed. Bombardier has huge manufacturing plants in both Ontario and Quebec which is why they get the government contracts as it produces local jobs.

When Toronto put it's streetcar orders out to tender it was a joke and everyone knew it, Bombardier will get the contract even if other competitors had the same product at half the price.

As far as Bombardier goes, it is not 'bragging" but at the same time Bombardier is the largest manufacturer of rail vehicles on the planet so it's not like the government is giving contracts to a company with inferior products. Bombardier is one of the "Big 3" when it comes to LRT with the other 2 being Siemens and Alstrom.

Calgary and Edmonton LRT use Siemens as Alberta has no manufacturing base so no matter who they choose they would never be built there anyway.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 08:41 AM   #503
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Well, I don't think other competitors were offering an inferior or unsafe product at a major discount to Bombardier.

I also doubt other cities were paying the same "inflated" price for Bombardier vehicles as Toronto.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 12:16 AM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
When Toronto put it's streetcar orders out to tender it was a joke and everyone knew it, Bombardier will get the contract even if other competitors had the same product at half the price.
IDK about half the price but, its true the TTC always gives its contracts to bombardier that's why we got those horrible-screechy-out-of-tune-door-chime-cheap-easy-to-dirty-but-not-easy-to-clean-aluminium-T1 series trains. Though they cleaned up their act with the TRs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
As far as Bombardier goes, it is not 'bragging" but at the same time Bombardier is the largest manufacturer of rail vehicles on the planet so it's not like the government is giving contracts to a company with inferior products. Bombardier is one of the "Big 3" when it comes to LRT with the other 2 being Siemens and Alstrom.

Calgary and Edmonton LRT use Siemens as Alberta has no manufacturing base so no matter who they choose they would never be built there anyway.
Well its because Siemens's LRT trains perfectly meet North American LRT crash safety and cost requirements. That's why almost every post-70's LRT network in North America uses Siemen's LRTs. These new LRT systems are highly dissimilar to Toronto's legacy system.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 06:30 AM   #505
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Montreal's MTA went public last month about their intention of consulting with Bombadear about about their exploration of design improvements into and selections of purchasing their next round of either one of the manufacturer's commuter rail cars, series 2000 and 3000 ... nothing about consulting the overall rail-car manufacturing sector, thus their crookedness must be in the bag
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Old December 4th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #506
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This is why proprietary technology is a mute point in Toronto.

As long as the maker is Bombardier the technology is irrelevant. This is why Toronto should extend it's SkyTrain down Eglinton. Some say it's proprietary and they don't want that but it's not relevant. Same goes for monorail. Monorail systems may be different but Bombardier builds, according to monorails.org , state of the art monorail systems like the huge system currently being built in Sao Paulo.

It's interesting that Toronto doesn't consider monorail as again they say it is proprietary but the monorails for Sao Paulo are being built in Kingston Ontario and the provincial government gave Bombardier money to recently open a new monorail test track in Kingston to show case the technology.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 03:22 AM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
This is why proprietary technology is a mute point in Toronto.
given your points after that... maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
As long as the maker is Bombardier the technology is irrelevant. This is why Toronto should extend it's SkyTrain down Eglinton. Some say it's proprietary and they don't want that but it's not relevant.
And how are we going to get new trains for it? MARK III/II trains are too long to go around its underground curve. We have to custom order new trains from Bombardier or rebuild the curves so...

proprietary + Bombardier Tax + Custom Order = ($$$)x3

so tech is very relevant. IMHO the crosstown LRT is fine.

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Same goes for monorail. Monorail systems may be different but Bombardier builds, according to monorails.org , state of the art monorail systems like the huge system currently being built in Sao Paulo.
The line 2 monorail is a flawed design. There is a forced transfer from the conventional metro line 2 to the line 2 monorail. Kinda sounds like the ummmm SRT with the BD line in Toronto and look how well that turned out to be. though line 17 is a bit of a different story.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 03:32 AM   #508
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Whether they extended the Metro or not, that has nothing to do with the worthiness of the technology. Elevated Monorail is, by far, the cheapest, least disruptive, enviornment friendly, pedestrian friendly of any elevated technology with the smallest footprint and smallest shawdow. Unless the elevated Metro uses rubber tire vehicles, it is also the smoothest and quietest.

This is why many congested developing cities are going to monorail. Their congested cities tend to have more congested roads, much higher density levels, and older ones or ones with challenging topography. This is where monorails shine as they are quiet, easier and less disruuptive to build, have far superior turning and grade abilities, and cast the smallest amount of shawdow all of which are eseential if going beside or over high density areas.

Anyway, I don't mean to hijack this thread so let's get back to Toronto streetcars.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:04 AM   #509
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Sydney folk crushed the proposal there for an extensive monorail network, thinking the system too unsightly.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 03:05 AM   #510
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I can understand that.

I would never have agreed to a Sydney monorail. I don't like elevated trains thru inner city areas and all grade separated systems that run thru inner cities should be either tunneled or use current rail corridors. Sydneysiders also had a pretty bad impression of the monorail as it was a useless circular tourist route and nothing more.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 12:36 AM   #511
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*Bump*

Toronto Transit Commission 4401 (2013 Bombardier Flexity Outlook) is seen at Hillcrest Complex Harvey Shops, not in service.

image hosted on flickr

Toronto Transit Commission 4401 by YT | transport photography, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Toronto Transit Commission 4401 - interior by YT | transport photography, on Flickr
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Old November 25th, 2013, 01:49 AM   #512
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Multi-segment tram with trolley pole... Really mind blowing.
In contrast, Riga decided to switch from pole to pantographs together with introduction of articulated trams.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 02:01 AM   #513
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They have both Trolley polls and Pantographs, as they are still in the process of setting up pantograph-compatible wiring in the network. You can see the pantograph in the photo as well.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
Multi-segment tram with trolley pole... Really mind blowing.
In contrast, Riga decided to switch from pole to pantographs together with introduction of articulated trams.
If you look at the pics closely, you'll see a pantograph.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #515
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I see, but Riga opted for conversion before starting regural service, so it got articulated trams with pant. only. Toronto trams on contrst have both, which to my knowledge is unique for articulated trams.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 05:45 AM   #516
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probably, yes. Toronto's legacy streetcar network remains largely unchanged from the 1920's.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 05:54 PM   #517
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The first two routes the streetcars will run on (509/10 and 511) are pantograph ready.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 12:24 AM   #518
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The first two routes the streetcars will run on (509/10 and 511) are pantograph ready.
Are they? I believe to many frogs at the intersections have yet to make the switch.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 02:38 AM   #519
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Those are some flashy streetcars you got there.

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Old March 12th, 2014, 11:20 PM   #520
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Come on chaps, some of us are thousands of miles away across the pond and would appreciate a bit more information and pictures. Is this the only thread on here discussing your new kit?

Last edited by andrrew0256; March 12th, 2014 at 11:21 PM. Reason: Better English
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