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Old November 22nd, 2005, 07:35 AM   #81
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 12:33 PM   #82
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Thats now my wallpaper

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Old January 1st, 2006, 05:38 AM   #83
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The famed 510 underground
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Old January 1st, 2006, 06:03 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartboy
What "kind" of people use this transport? Are they poor and don't have car?
que comentario terrivel colega
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Old January 1st, 2006, 06:05 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartboy
What "kind" of people use this transport? Are they poor and don't have car?
look who's talking
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Old January 1st, 2006, 06:50 AM   #86
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It's "street car" a synonymous of tramway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartboy
What "kind" of people use this transport? Are they poor and don't have car?
Very unfortunated comment.
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Old January 1st, 2006, 11:48 AM   #87
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^ Indeed it is.

I do dispute that claim that Toronto has the second largest network in the world after Melbourne, because Melbourne itself claims to be the third or fourth largest covering 245km of route.

I'm also presuming that the figure of 11 routes covering 305.8km is referring to 305.8km of track and not route, because routes averaging 30km in length are extremely long and are more suited to heavy rail.

Last edited by invincible; January 1st, 2006 at 11:59 AM.
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Old January 1st, 2006, 05:35 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevan
Such great city deserves better tram cars als those one shown
I'd be much more interested in seeing the GO transit vehicles upgraded to something more modern (preferably electric). There's no sense in messing with an icon like the streetcars. And if they do get new ones, they should still keep a few of the older ones around for the charm.
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Old January 1st, 2006, 09:01 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible
^ Indeed it is.

I do dispute that claim that Toronto has the second largest network in the world after Melbourne, because Melbourne itself claims to be the third or fourth largest covering 245km of route.

I'm also presuming that the figure of 11 routes covering 305.8km is referring to 305.8km of track and not route, because routes averaging 30km in length are extremely long and are more suited to heavy rail.

It may be second largest outside of Europe??
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Old January 2nd, 2006, 02:36 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
It may be second largest outside of Europe??
Probably, I know for a fact St Petersburg in Russia claims to have the longest network, and indeed, there are tracks everywhere!
Btw @ Stevan
Ne bih ja nikad dao svoje Torontske tramvaje, oni su simbolicni, a jos rade odlicno.
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Old January 2nd, 2006, 06:12 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
And if they do get new ones, they should still keep a few of the older ones around for the charm.
That's what most other cities are doing. Have new trams/streetcars on the busy lines where people need to travel quickly, and keep the older ones on the more touristy lines.

Three and five-section articulated vehicles will probably pay off in the end and give better capacity. They don't look too bad either. The low floors create an impression of spaciousness too. Besides, evolution is essential... you won't want everything to become outdated.

Toronto's fleet isn't too bad, I could probably understand that the current vehicles can stay in service for a few more years to come.
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Old January 2nd, 2006, 06:50 AM   #92
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Some of those avenues look wide enough for ROW. When will Toronto add to the existing ROWs?
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Old January 2nd, 2006, 11:51 PM   #93
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Here's a map that was originally posted by MSPtoMKE in another thread. I've updated it to include the new Kennedy GO station. The original posting also had a satellite overlay. The map only shows official routes, not the several other diversion routes which do not regularly see revenue service.

As for new ROW's the 512 St. Clair line PROW is currently caught up in some controversy over the design, with businesses complaining they'll loose parking while proponents are clamouring for more reliable service. There is also a proposal to extend service along Kingston Rd. to Eglinton and then on back to Kennedy station. The roads are wide enough to get a PROW and there doesn't seem to be a lot of organized opposition so far.

[IMG]http://************/jjvght.jpg[/IMG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPtoMKE
Well, a few months ago I got several requests to do a geographic map of Toronto, and I wanted to do a map of a city that had streetcars (like the trams from my Milan Map). Anyways, here it is . . .

Along with a link to the version with a satelite image overlay (680k)

I think Boston is going to be next...
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Old January 4th, 2006, 07:06 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
I'd be much more interested in seeing the GO transit vehicles upgraded to something more modern (preferably electric). There's no sense in messing with an icon like the streetcars. And if they do get new ones, they should still keep a few of the older ones around for the charm.
Hey, GO's railway cars are iconic too (GO designed those from scratch themseles). I forget if they called the shots on the engines as well or not.
I agree that electrified GO routes would be good. GO will be able to consider it as it is starting to own their tracks now. The Lakeshore would obviously be first, Milton will prove to be the tricky one though (despite being second (third if you split Lakeshore to East/West) highest usage, it may be last to be owned).
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Old February 10th, 2006, 07:23 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
lol, weirdest comment ever
You see, it comes from a Brazilian... I'm not trying to offend anyone... but to the Brazilian guy I would say that in North America and Europe cities do have a public transport system that works efficiently and that is safe... many times it's just easier to use the public transport and not worry about the traffic and about finding a place to park the car... this is especially a big issue in the old quarters of European cities, which obviously weren't planned for floods of cars

I catch bus every morning to go to university... lol, I'm starting to think if I'm poor... plus, I use a student bus card (discount card)... my God, am I poor and nobody told me????
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Old April 23rd, 2006, 01:04 PM   #96
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The future of the TTC Streetcar system....

I suppose it varies, depending on who you are talking to.

For example, if Joe Mihevc (a toronto councilor) gets his way, the new streetcars will be low floor and double ended.

For others, it doesnt really matter as much...too many choices leads to too many challenges...

From what I am hearing, Toronto will be going to an existing manufacturer to buy a modified "off the shelf" design.

One idea that has been mentioned is the Skoda101. Another is a Seimens model LRT which is right now the preferred choice for Ottawa's new LRT system.

What happens will depend on many things, as varied as as the manufacturer of the subway cars chosen for Toronto's future subway trains, or the work of a number of activists for the disabled who are forcing TTC to upgrade its system.

Here are some possibilities:

Low floor or mixed floor design
2 or 3 section articulated cars
Doors on both sides
Double ended cars
Pantograph operation instead of trolley poles
Wheelchair ramps and accessible spaces
Bike racks

Which of these will happen? Who knows.

One thing I have heard that is a go...the CLRV (shorter) streetcars that undergo the next rebuild will be getting couplers so they can operate in 2 car trains again.

Cheers, m
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Old April 23rd, 2006, 07:53 PM   #97
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I like the city's streetcars, especially sitting inside the back end with its semi-circle of passenger seats lining the rear end that's tapered into a slight point with its tall curved rear glass panes -- nice feeling, nearly outright glamorous were it not for all the garbage and drink spills left behind upon the seats and floors. Their type of suspension's probably still the best type around (I remember when I first encountered it back in London in the late 1970s, and my rides through its darkened tunnelling always amounted to floating! incredible sensation with lots of trickery because of the darkness down there).

With all these messages here about its streetcars there, I'm surprised nobody's brought up the state of the streetcar infrastructure. A streetcar driver there who hailed from Europe told me a few years about how a couple of European cities look after their networks. The Toronto tracks are virtually the cheapest quality a transit operating authority can operate. Their foundations are shallow, and there appears to be a hollow area between the underside of the top concrete and the top of the underlying trackbed making the vehicles unnecessarily noisy for too large a radius; the tracks need rebuilding far too often. The rails lack some kind of damper on their insides that would eliminate the risk to roadway cyclists. There's no built-in heater at switches/turnouts/points to thaw ice from accumulating. Very few -- if none -- switches are equipped with motors (the opertor must fish her/his crowbar, exit the vehicle, and flip the switch with all her/his might leaning into the bar (i.e., on icy days). I wonder how antiquated the circuitry to its network is, because their overhead traction power signs are so rusted and tiny that an operator often missed the warning, and her/his mismanagment of the current would cause the vehicle to lurch or even shower sparks onto streetgoers. With its predominantly narrow streets there, the city really ought to equip its network and cars with manually-operated or automatic tools to control the traffic lights in favour of passing streetcars. As a network, it has all the hallmarks of a system a westerner would come to expect to find characterisetic to a region struggling to develop.

Lastly, the most pressing improvement necessary is to equip all the streetcars there with flashing signs more akin to those found upon schoolbusses, not the useless tiny stop-sign stickers that were glued to the exterior of a folding door leaf that rotates the sticker into a motorist's view when opened -- far too many close calls played out between people boarding or descending the streetcars there (incredible how often people would get off a streetcar there out in the middle of the road without looking right before stepping onto the asphalt).

Cheers,
Chris

Last edited by elkram; April 23rd, 2006 at 08:45 PM.
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Old April 24th, 2006, 12:27 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkram
As a network, it has all the hallmarks of a system a westerner would come to expect to find characterisetic to a region struggling to develop.

Cheers,
Chris
That's exactly the problem...Toronto hasnt enough money to maintain the existing infrastructure, let alone expansion.

The provincial government cut the traditional funding arrangements to public transit back in 1995. Since then TTC and GO Transit have had to operate using small government subsidies. TTC and GO operate using property tax money, and make about 80-82% of their revenues from the farebox..........

There was hope that a Liberal Canadian government in its last death throes would throw some money into public transit...and they did...but is it enough to reverse 12 years of neglect?

Cheers, m
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Old April 26th, 2006, 07:02 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ
Hey, GO's railway cars are iconic too (GO designed those from scratch themseles). I forget if they called the shots on the engines as well or not.
I agree that electrified GO routes would be good. GO will be able to consider it as it is starting to own their tracks now. The Lakeshore would obviously be first, Milton will prove to be the tricky one though (despite being second (third if you split Lakeshore to East/West) highest usage, it may be last to be owned).
I love those bi-level rail cars. They were designed by Hawker-Siddeley, back in those days lol. (HS has since been absorped into Urban Transport Development Corp, UTDC, a provincial crown corporation, then it was bought by Bombardier). Those rail cars are here to stay, as new accessible carriages are being delivered, and some older ones are refurbished.

The current locomotives are bought from GE. They are not too old yet, and don't need to be replace, but they do lack the power to pull more carriages. GO Transit has ordered new locomotives, featuring aerodynamic looks, and will be delivered next year.
This is what it would look like:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=135404

... pretty good looking, I think!

-Electrifying the rails, unfortunately, won't happen in a while. First they have to go through CP and/or CN, who owns the actual rails, then the harder part is the money...

Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban
For example, if Joe Mihevc (a toronto councilor) gets his way, the new streetcars will be low floor and double ended.
For others, it doesnt really matter as much...too many choices leads to too many challenges...

From what I am hearing, Toronto will be going to an existing manufacturer to buy a modified "off the shelf" design.

One idea that has been mentioned is the Skoda101. Another is a Seimens model LRT which is right now the preferred choice for Ottawa's new LRT system.
As someone pointed out, Toronto's streetcar tracks are not standard gauge, so even an off-the-shelf design would need significant amont of extra money for modification. This is quite the headache that many new cities starting from scratch don't have to worry.

Maybe they'll do another custom design like they did with the current CLRV/ALRV?

By the way, Ottawa's O-Train uses Bombardier Talent.
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Old May 2nd, 2006, 11:57 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GO_Rider
As someone pointed out, Toronto's streetcar tracks are not standard gauge, so even an off-the-shelf design would need significant amont of extra money for modification. This is quite the headache that many new cities starting from scratch don't have to worry.

Maybe they'll do another custom design like they did with the current CLRV/ALRV?

By the way, Ottawa's O-Train uses Bombardier Talent.
From what I've been told, there would be a relatively simple modification of the wheels to a wider TTC 1.495 gauge...meaning, the gauge is a relatively minor factor in choosing the new model.

I am also hearing talk of designing new LRT lines using standard gauge, and rebuilding old routes with both gauges. The idea is that with other agencies in the GTA thinking about LRT as well, it is time to decide if they should stick with TTC gauge or standard gauge.

O-Train is currently using 3 Bombardier Talent DMU vehicles. I was refering to the future Ottawa East-West LRT line. The government has indicated a preference for Siemens.

Cheers, m
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