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Old May 4th, 2006, 10:54 AM   #121
allurban
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GO_Rider
From my experiences, I have seen the 506 streetcar with signal priority in action. The pedestrian light would be flashing the red hand, and then finally it turned solid, but the traffic light was still green on College St, where a streetcar was in the process of crossing the intersection. The traffic light immediately changed once it completed crossing. It's pretty cool, I think.
Thanks for the info.

Cheers, m
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Old May 4th, 2006, 04:49 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban
No
Fooled me. I'd say the style of your entries
is identical, as is the general negative spirit of your postings
regarding Toronto. Must all be a "huge coincidence".
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Old May 4th, 2006, 08:12 PM   #123
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Hi Allurban! I wish you a fun weekend!


Quote:
Originally Posted by GO_Rider
From my experiences, I have seen the 506 streetcar with signal priority in action. The pedestrian light would be flashing the red hand, and then finally it turned solid, but the traffic light was still green on College St, where a streetcar was in the process of crossing the intersection. The traffic light immediately changed once it completed crossing. It's pretty cool, I think.
This was the route I travelled the most, all times of day. Do you know if travel times have been significantly trimmed either way along Carlton and College? I'm wondering if it's still more timely to get off the respective preceding stop before the one at the corner of Yonge rush hours -- we westbound passengers getting off at that intersection were seldom let out any earlier than the fourth red traffic light we'd be restlessly witnessing from our red rocket. Mind you, that city's traffic signals yield remarkably shorter go and stop times, the traffic lights keep changing there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB
"the most pressing improvement necessary is to equip all the streetcars there with flashing signs more akin to those found upon schoolbusses"

Well, if you aren't aware of the Highway Traffic Act, then you shouldn't be on the road.
A couple of days after writing my observation, I came across marvelous pictures of Melbourne's fleets of trams. Errr, some planner there must have seen the light coz Melbourne's trams are adorned with retractable illuminating signs, being designed much like what I'd always craved riding Toronto's.

KGB, your ego's muddling (e.g., careful, lest you be demonstrative of another reason why visiting there might not be worthwhile) -- pretty childish to stomp on a solid recommendation for a safety improvement, no? Maybe try reading between my lines: I didn't feel safe riding your trams -- you'd think it'd be irksome to a network for its obliging a passenger or even a nearby pedestrian for crying out loud! into having to remember to look away from the exit every time a passenger got off one of its trams, no? So much for the romantic ideal, which seemed to be the only promoted reason coming out of there for not doing away with the city's trams.

By the way, I found the Toronto Transit Commission's bus and tram operators to be remarkably smart people, I thoroughly enjoyed shooting the breeze with them -- I also admired their boldness -- sensible drivers too.

Oh! the gong's the other cute aspect I remember about the trams there. It's a shame -- read: not pity -- that the operators were left to honk their horns at an ever increasing number of underpassers, when I reckon management ought to be overcoming this most pressing problem of theirs.

Cheers,
Chris

Last edited by elkram; May 4th, 2006 at 08:42 PM.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 02:21 AM   #124
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"KGB, your ego's muddling (e.g., careful, lest you be demonstrative of another reason why visiting there might not be worthwhile) "


Oh...and what is that...Torontonians are such *******s?

I wondered when the true nature of your negativity would shine through...just typical Montrealers and their anti-Toronto sentiments. Yea...my ego. I guess pointing out straight glaring BS posts regarding technical comments about streetcars makes ME the bad guy. mmmm hmmm







"pretty childish to stomp on a solid recommendation for a safety improvement, no? "


What's childish about it? And why all the drama about stomping?

It's a simple matter of following the rules of the road. You stop at a red light don't you....they don't put barriers down when there is a red light.







" I didn't feel safe riding your trams -- you'd think it'd be irksome to a network for its obliging a passenger or even a nearby pedestrian for crying out loud! "


Since streetcars are unique to Toronto, perhaps you just don't understand the nature of it, and are making a big deal out of something that is just normal....just not to you. When you walk onto a road, you look to make sure it's safe to do so don't you? Of course you do that when exiting a streetcar...it's just common sense....you are walking into traffic.







"So much for the romantic ideal, which seemed to be the only promoted reason coming out of there for not doing away with the city's trams."


Oh yea...it's just all down the tubes eh? Com'on...now your just reaching in your desperate attempt at knocking something just because it's in Toronto, when we all know streetcars are fabulous.

And while the streetcars are indeed well loved and iconic of the city (which must just bug the shit out of montrealers), they are definetely not here for the fun of it....they serve a very specific route service not provided by buses or subways.








" at an ever increasing number of underpassers, when I reckon management ought to be overcoming this most pressing problem of theirs."



Man...you just can't stop bringing this up...even in the same post.

Look, flashing lights aren't going to stop people from doing it....the offenders already know they have to stop...they just want to get by that streetcar too badly, and take stupid risks to do it. The answer is to make the penalties serious.

The operators will generally not even open the doors until they see traffic has stopped first. It isn't "managements" fault.



This thread has become the usual bash-Toronto-at-any-cost ...I mean now the streetcars suck...hell, they are nothing but a deadly menace to society. Not only that, you can't post blatent bullshit like there's no signal priority...no motorized switched, etc....because someone will point out that is incorrect....what fun is that?


Whatever.







KGB
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Old May 5th, 2006, 06:36 AM   #125
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^ ^ Relax, e.g., take a deap breath.

My main point touches upon out-of-towners, whose highway codes most likely have no provision concerning trains cruising streets -- most underpassers, i.e., infractors, bear out-of-province license plates. Equipping the trams there with indicators like Melbourne's would be a step in the right direction.

Cheers,
Chris
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Old May 5th, 2006, 07:21 AM   #126
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KGB you hit the nail on the head. "Elkram/Allurban", (or just plain Mark), whatever
you want to call yourself, you are the one who should take a deep breath and
relax. In your short career here on skyscrapercity you have displayed nothing but
contempt for Toronto. Be prepared for a rocky ride if you intend to keep it up.
Next time you make a fake profile to agree with yourself, at least disguise it better.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 08:00 AM   #127
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career?!? Kiddo, dry up !
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Old May 5th, 2006, 08:51 AM   #128
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"most underpassers, i.e., infractors, bear out-of-province license plates."


Wanna bet?

But hey....every "fact" passed off here has been total rubbish anyway...so go ahead, keep making up facts...why should it stop now?

Getting off a streetcar is no more risky than crossing the street in the city....keep on making up reasons to knock streetcars all you like, but to cling to this one tells me your real intention here is to knock them for the sake of it. Trolls are annoying.




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Old May 5th, 2006, 11:53 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better
Fooled me. I'd say the style of your entries
is identical, as is the general negative spirit of your postings
regarding Toronto. Must all be a "huge coincidence".
I'm impressed with your deduction skills, Sherlock.
Based on, oh, less than 10 posts by me, you think that I am someone else.

Um...why are you here? Your talent is being wasted...go work for the FBI or CIA or CSIS...find Osama, find the WMDs in Iraq...do psychic profiles of criminals...solve the unsolved mysteries of Unsolved Mysteries......

Dont you realize the failure of your logic?

There is a remarkable similarity between you and a chimpanzee. You share 97% of your DNA. You both can use tools. You have an identical number of fingers and toes. Therefore, by your logic, you would be identical to a chimpanzee.

But I am confident that you are not a chimpanzee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better
KGB you hit the nail on the head. "Elkram/Allurban", (or just plain Mark), whatever
you want to call yourself, you are the one who should take a deep breath and
relax. In your short career here on skyscrapercity you have displayed nothing but
contempt for Toronto. Be prepared for a rocky ride if you intend to keep it up.
Next time you make a fake profile to agree with yourself, at least disguise it better.
Next time you make assumptions, better find the proof. If you bothered to check the internet protocol, you would see that I am using a completely different computer from this elkram person, and that computer is located in a completely different part of the world....oh, and there are dozens of names that begin with the letter m....

but why check...just assume that you are right because you believe it to be so. Do you believe the WMDs in Iraq are gonna turn up any day now?

Sure, I made a mistake, I read the CNW news release from the Ontario Government, which said that only emergency vehicles use the signal priority technology...I failed to check those facts...I had proof to back up what I said about signal priority. But the proof was wrong, and therefore, I was wrong. I already stood corrected a few posts ago.

What is your reason for not answering the question about why using signal detection equipment on Spadina is pointless? If you dont know, maybe you can try to find out....

Cheers, m

Last edited by allurban; May 5th, 2006 at 12:08 PM.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 02:00 PM   #130
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Spadina is not a good candidate for signal priority, because it's headways are too small. It's a small, but very busy route, so streetcars are too close together. If signal priority were operating, Spadina would basically have a solid green light all the time.

Obviously this would not work well for all the major, busy streets it crosses...especially when it crosses 4 other streetcar routes, which also use signal priority. Plus the intersections are complicated by having so many separate left turn lights...it's not a simple 4-way.

This is why Spadina needs to have larger vehicles, with higher capacity but longer headways. Spadina will probably be the first line to use either the coupled streetcars or whatever new "train" style LRT vehicles it purchases down the road.






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Old May 5th, 2006, 04:56 PM   #131
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@"allurban/elkram": Uh-huh... whatever you say. I believe you
because I am a very trusting soul.......... .
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Last edited by Taller, Better; May 5th, 2006 at 05:54 PM.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 09:03 PM   #132
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Hmmm, if KGB's and TB's surly attitudes serve as any indication, maybe Toronto deserves the very quality of tram network it's got.

Let me share further observations from my daily commutes on the trams there:

-- loose rails that I've seen pop way out of joints from trams heading the other way on the other side of the road, no matter how much they reduced their speed

-- operators telling me that the tracks weren't in the least bit designed for the hefty weights of the city's two current fleets of trams

-- reduced speed zones, i.e., 5MPH / 10KPH, for blocks upon blocks for seasons at a time; it was a relief when the busses had to sometimes substitute the trams coz they drastically trimmed the travel times

-- the insulation disintegrating off the feeder power lines strung atop the catenary poles

-- delapidated track sections that often caused the tram chassis to excessively thud against some underframe, as well as the whole car to lurch to one side

-- as complete strangers from the outset, lots of white English-speaking adult male passengers getting themselves into amusing squabbles (very Torontonian)

One needn't be a rocket scientist or a text book to figure out how much attention ought to be devoted to the network there.

The most disturbing aspect about it was learning from news reports of passengers dying from being hit by vehicles while getting either on or off a tram there. I wish I could say the STOP stickers on the doors are a joke, but that wouldn't be fair of me.

Tram and interurban networks in Holland, Belgium, W Germany, Portugal and Spain were always thrilling, while Toronto's own network did little to excite me.

Cheers,
Chris

Last edited by elkram; May 5th, 2006 at 09:15 PM.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 02:02 AM   #133
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"loose rails that I've seen pop way out of joints from trams heading the other way on the other side of the road, no matter how much they reduced their speed

"operators telling me that the tracks weren't in the least bit designed for the hefty weights of the city's two current fleets of trams"

"delapidated track sections"


Yea yea yea...I suppose it's easier to make up your own stories, than it is to face the truth that the track is all brand new and state-of-the-art.

You forgot to mention the gum you saw on the floor once.








"Hmmm, if KGB's and TB's surly attitudes serve as any indication, maybe Toronto deserves the very quality of tram network it's got."

" lots of white English-speaking adult male passengers getting themselves into amusing squabbles (very Torontonian) "



I see your posts are getting less about streetcars, and more about what you really troll around Toronto threads for. But then again, there's nothing origional about a Montrealer's opinion about Toronto....we have heard it all before ya know.







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Old May 6th, 2006, 03:04 AM   #134
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Cheesh, remind me and other forumers to get a Toronto-limited passport!
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Old May 6th, 2006, 07:43 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkram
Cheesh, remind me and other forumers to get a Toronto-limited passport!
@"elkram/allurban/Mark". of Montreal, London and Kuala Lumpur
This one sentence pretty much sums up all your prejudices:
"-- as complete strangers from the outset, lots of white English-speaking adult male passengers getting themselves into amusing squabbles (very Torontonian)"

For someone who professes his dislike/contempt for Toronto on
numerous occasions, why are you seemingly drawn to all the Toronto
threads?
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Last edited by Taller, Better; May 6th, 2006 at 08:47 AM.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 12:19 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB
Spadina is not a good candidate for signal priority, because it's headways are too small. It's a small, but very busy route, so streetcars are too close together. If signal priority were operating, Spadina would basically have a solid green light all the time.

Obviously this would not work well for all the major, busy streets it crosses...especially when it crosses 4 other streetcar routes, which also use signal priority. Plus the intersections are complicated by having so many separate left turn lights...it's not a simple 4-way.
Thanks for the info...much appreciated...It's funny that, according to the subway riders efficiency guide, it is faster to use bathurst than Spadina even tho Spadina is in ROW...have you read the guide?

When TO gets the new subway cars with the gangways, I think it will become even more useful...passengers can walk through cars and position themselves in the train so they will be right at the platform exit

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB
This is why Spadina needs to have larger vehicles, with higher capacity but longer headways. Spadina will probably be the first line to use either the coupled streetcars or whatever new "train" style LRT vehicles it purchases down the road.

KGB
That would be nice...I would like to see better service on Spadina. Personally, I think the new LRTs and coupled CLRVs (if this happens) will end up on King and St. Clair first. The reasons are:
  • TTC has been wanting to make changes on King for years...remember the Transit Mall proposal. Also, they specifically mentioned King in the proposal for coupling cars
  • No ALRVs are used on Spadina although they can fit into the tight turnarounds at Spadina and Union...because of visibility concerns. Anyways, if thats the case, then I dont see TTC putting longer or coupled streetcars on Spadina (and Harbourfront)
  • The City will *owe* the St. Clair community after the row that popped up over the ROW. That may be why they are testing the time-expired transfer there

I do hope that Spadina will get other things installed before the other routes...platform ticketing to speed up boarding, all doors boarding, smart card testing, time-expired transfers, full POP implementation, etc.

Cheers, mya

(Seems someone thinks I'm someone else...so why not humour him. Let LT think Im R&B star Mya Actually, those are just my full initials)

Last edited by allurban; May 6th, 2006 at 12:54 PM.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 12:47 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkram
-- operators telling me that the tracks weren't in the least bit designed for the hefty weights of the city's two current fleets of trams
I dont know about this...but the CLRVs (Canadian Light Rail Vehicles) that are currently used (and the ALRVs which are based on the CLRV) were going to be used on the streets and on a network of high speed interurban routes...(which never came about, except for the Scarborough RT)...so they are much heavier when compared to the older PCC cars.

Principal Specifications (CLRV):
Fleet numbers: L1 Class - 4000-4005 (Swiss built), L2 Class - 4010-4199 (Canadian built)
Seating: 46
Normal service usage: 102 passengers - 29,685 kg
'Crush' load capacity: 132 passengers - 31,735 kg
Empty streetcar weight: 22,685 kg (50,000 lbs)

Minimum horizontal curve radius: 10,973 mm (36'0")
Minimum vertical curve radius - convex: 122 m
Minimum vernicle curve radius - concave: 244 m
Motor rating: 2 x 185 HP continuous, 245 HP in acceleration, 370 HP in braking
Initial acceleration rate: 1.47 m/s/s (3.3 MPHPS)
Braking rate: 1.6 m/s/s (3.6 MPHPS) in service, 3.46 m/s/s (7.7 MPHPS) in emergency

Principal Specifications(ALRV):
Fleet numbers: 4200-4251
Seating: 61
Normal service usage: 155 passengers - 47,655 kg
‘Crush’ load capacity: 205 passengers - 51,165 kg
Empty streetcar weight: 36,745 kg (81,000 lbs)

Minimum horizontal curve radius: 10,973 mm (36’0”)
Minimum verticle curve radius - convex: 122 m
Minimum verticle curve radius - concave: 244 m
Motor rating: 4 x 87 HP (65KW) continuous, 4 x 123 HP (92KW) one hour.
Initial acceleration rate: 1.2 m/s/s (2.65 MPHPS)
Braking rate: 1.6 m/s/s (3.6 MPHPS) in service, 3.13 m/s/s (7.0 MPHPS) in emergency

Principal Specifications (PCC Cars Classes A-6/7/8 as rebuilt)
Seating: 46
Normal service usage: 103 passengers - 53,000 lbs
'Crush' load capacity: 134 passengers - 57,650 lbs
Empty streetcar weight: 37,400 lbs

Minimum horizontal curve radius: 10,973 mm (36'0")
Minimum verticle curve radius - convex: 122 m
Minimum verticle curve radius - concave: 244 m
Motor rating: 4 x 48 HP continuous, 4 x 55 HP one hour. 100 HP in acceleration, 225 HP in braking
Initial acceleration rate: 4.3 MPHPS
Braking rate: 1.6 m/s/s (3.6 MPHPS) in service, (9.0 MPHPS) in emergency

NOTE: This information was taken from the Transit Toronto Website

ALRV - http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4504.shtml
CLRV - http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4503.shtml
PCC - http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4502.shtml


The Scarborough RT was supposed to be the first of these interurban railways, using the CLRV technology. Another was going to be built at Kipling Station out in the west end.

At the last minute, the Ontario Government demanded that the TTC use their new Linear Induction Motor system instead of CLRV/ALRV.

Cheers, mya
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Old May 6th, 2006, 08:29 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allurban
When TO gets the new subway cars with the gangways
Right on. Are there any drawings? Where might I look at one?

Buying and using lousy female body fragrances are now catching on here -- they're so nauseating that I find myself having to trespass into the adjacent car before reaching the first station to prevent myself from hurling.

Cheers,
Chris

PS: Who/where's Mark?!?
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Old May 6th, 2006, 10:28 PM   #139
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If you are doing all this for my benefit, then you needn't bother. I think you
know I have made my point : "Mind your p's and q's".
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Old May 6th, 2006, 10:54 PM   #140
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i saw on the news the other day about the transit company will be putting on those traffic light controllers, to make travelling by public transportation more efficient, and theyre going to first test it on the streetcars.
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