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Old April 9th, 2007, 10:17 AM   #161
mr.x
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Whether or not it is the best solution to solving Toronto's transit woes, at least something is trying to be done here....and I welcome it. Can't wait to see it complete! I was gawking reading 120 kms and over $6 billion! *thumbs up*
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Old June 15th, 2007, 03:06 PM   #162
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TTC light rail vehicles
15 June 2007
The Toronto Star

Toronto's transit agency will buy 204 streetcars for $1.4 billion to replace existing fleet. Two will arrive in 2010 for testing and the next 48 are due by 2012, with another 26 delivered each year until 2018. The final configuration has not been set.

THE FEATURES

LOW FLOOR: Vehicles will meet Toronto's curb and platform heights, ending struggles with strollers and wheelchairs. Meets needs of an aging population.

STOP ANNOUNCEMENTS: Automated audio and visual stop announcements will improve accessibility for visually and hearing impaired riders.

COMFORT: Cars will be air-conditioned.

SEATING: To be determined. TTC officials want public input on the position and number of seats. Streetcars typically hold about 80 riders versus about 50 on a bus.

BIKES: Prototype shows a bike rack inside the car.

CABIN: Driver could be sequestered because fare monitoring would be eliminated if the TTC moves to a fare smartcard passengers can scan.

WHERE YOU CAN SEE IT: The model pictured here will be at the Finch subway station on June 25; Scarborough Centre RT station on June 26; Albion Centre, June 27, and Yonge-Dundas Square on June 28.

Give your opinions and see models at www.mynewstreetcar.ca

STILL TO BE DETERMINED: Colour. Whether the TTC rocket remains red might be the biggest question of all.
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Old June 15th, 2007, 03:07 PM   #163
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TTC launches its road show
‘We're looking at defining our streetcars, the new image of Toronto for the 21st century'

15 June 2007
The Globe and Mail

The TTC launched a new website yesterday to consult Torontonians about what they want to see in the next generation of the city's streetcars as the transit agency prepares to spend more than $1-billion to replace North America's biggest light-rail fleet.

The site, www.mynewstreetcar.ca , contains little hard information about the Toronto Transit Commission's plans to buy more than 200 sleek, new low-floor streetcars – accessible to the disabled – as its current crop approaches 30 years of age.

But it does feature a promotional video and photos of state-of-the-art light-rail vehicles from other cities, and it asks users for their comments.

“When you think of Toronto, you think of the CN Tower, and you think of the Toronto Rocket,” TTC chairman Adam Giambrone told a press conference yesterday. “…Today, we're looking at defining our streetcars, the new image of Toronto for the 21st century.”

The TTC also announced four “streetcar open-house” events that will run later this month to allow the public to have its say.

The move appears to be part of a push to keep the agency's ambitious Transit City plan, which would add 120 kilometres of new streetcar lines by 2021, in the public eye. If the plan goes ahead – it still requires funding from other governments – the TTC says it would need 260 extra light-rail cars, on top of the 204 it plans to buy to replace the current fleet.

Mr. Giambrone pointed to the environmental benefits of electric streetcars, which produce no tailpipe emissions, and added that the TTC is investigating buying wind or solar “green power” from Toronto Hydro to further reduce the streetcars' ecological footprint.

The TTC held its press conference yesterday at the Ontario Science Centre, near Don Mills Road and Eglinton Avenue East, where two of the seven proposed light-rail routes in the $6-billion Transit City plan would intersect.

On hand was a demonstration light-rail vehicle of the kind the TTC is hoping to buy. The sample car, a Bombardier Flexity model similar to those in Minneapolis and provided free of charge for the event by the Montreal-based firm, was mounted on a flat-bed truck.

Controversy erupted last year over the TTC's subway-car purchase, in which the transit agency handed a $674-million contract to Bombardier without seeking bids from other firms in order to preserve jobs at the company's Thunder Bay plant.

Asked whether the other firms likely to bid on the streetcar contract would question the TTC for putting a Bombardier vehicle on display yesterday, Mr. Giambrone said the firm was the only one that had a suitable model nearby. (The car had been on display in Quebec City.)

He said the other firms expected to bid would be given an opportunity to provide a showroom model for public viewing. The TTC may put light-rail vehicles from other firms on display at this year's CNE, he added. In addition to Bombardier, the half-dozen firms interested in bidding on the contract include Italy's AnsaldoBreda, Germany's Siemens and the Czech Republic's Skoda.

Bombardier may have another advantage going into competition for the streetcar contract. The TTC has hired a consultant to examine how much Canadian content it can demand as a condition in the new streetcar contract, perhaps as high as 30 per cent. Open houses

• June 25 at Finch subway station. • June 26 at Scarborough Centre RT station. • June 27 at the Albion Centre in Etobicoke. • June 28 at Yonge-Dundas Square.

The open houses will run from noon to 8 p.m.

More GO power

GO Transit unveiled a prototype of its brand-new locomotive yesterday, and the transit agency says the new, more reliable engines will mean fewer delays for commuters.

The commuter rail service has ordered 27 new aerodynamic-looking locomotives, at a cost of $143-million, which are to start rolling into service later this year on the Lakeshore lines and the Milton line.

GO, which has seen its reputation tarnished by complaints over increased delays in recent years, says the new, more fuel-efficient locomotives are also more powerful that the current fleet, which dates back to the late 1980s.

The new vehicles can pull 12-car trains, two more cars than the current engines can manage. That translates into 300 more passengers per train.

The contract with manufacturer MotivePower Industries in Boise, Idaho, gives GO the option of purchasing another 26 locomotives. GO says it plans to replace its entire fleet of 45, which were made by General Motors.
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Old June 15th, 2007, 09:21 PM   #164
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This reversion to craving trams has become too much. Although I'm for this vehicle type, I'm strictly opposed to its being run in-street.

They're trying to revive a few tramways back here, and every resident who has recently cared to respond to the topic via the media here prefers electric trolley busses over trams any day.

Trains running down streets (trams, streetcars) is so Depressionesque, i.e., really flipping outdated. If public transport's going to make a real comeback, then these trams must certainly be limited to their very own rights of way.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 11:26 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkram View Post
This reversion to craving trams has become too much. Although I'm for this vehicle type, I'm strictly opposed to its being run in-street.

They're trying to revive a few tramways back here, and every resident who has recently cared to respond to the topic via the media here prefers electric trolley busses over trams any day.

Trains running down streets (trams, streetcars) is so Depressionesque, i.e., really flipping outdated. If public transport's going to make a real comeback, then these trams must certainly be limited to their very own rights of way.
Maybe instead of breaking through open door it'd be better to see how good old Yurp where over 100 tram systems have managed to survive has dealed with that kind of problem. I can assure you that definitely not every track section here is separated from cars lanes and noone wants to do it. Simply there's no such need.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 07:53 PM   #166
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Quote:
This reversion to craving trams has become too much.

For who...you? And BTW...streetcars have ALWAYS been popular in Toronto...it's not some passing fancy other cities occaisionally jump on a bandwagon over.


Quote:
They're trying to revive a few tramways back here, and every resident who has recently cared to respond to the topic via the media here prefers electric trolley busses over trams any day.

That's probably because none of them have any experience with either in Montreal, so what they "think" is basically irrelevent to determining which is actually better. Take it from someone who has had DAILY experience using both, and the streetcar is so superior to the electric trolly bus, it's not worth even asking about. Streetcars are better than buses period ...it doesn't matter what propels them.




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Trains running down streets (trams, streetcars) is so Depressionesque, i.e., really flipping outdated.

Hmmm...how much you want to bet that if the situation were reversed, you'd never stop shutting up about how superior Montreal was to Toronto because of their euro-style streetcar system. You are pretty predictable...if it's in Toronto, you will spin it to be bad. It's so obvious by now, that even if you made an actual intelligable comment, no-one would take you seriously. What a sad sack.

Anyway, as someone who uses one of these streetcars that travel in traffic on a regular basis, I can tell you that it's only at certain times of the day, and certain areas of downtown that it poses a problem in the first place.

Some old commercial streets are simply too narrow to allow for ROW streetcars and car lanes/street parking at the same time....so you compromise one way or the other. It doesn't have to be the perfect ideal situation to work. Even when there is ROW (Spadina, Harbourfront, St Clair), it isn't "perfect" either.

When you have a very busy, dense and congested downtown core, surface travelling is NEVER going to be ideal, no matter what you do.




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Old June 16th, 2007, 08:23 PM   #167
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I still think the most glaring ommision of the TransitCity initiate is the gapping hole on the Sheppard line. Whether it be an extended subway to atleast hook up with the Spadina Ext or have the entire line transfered to rapid Jane
LRT to make it a true complete East/West rapid transit line like the Eglinton cross town route.
I hope that there will be different stlye or atleast paint to make it easier to differentiate the regular streetcars from the new rapid LRT route. It would greatly help the travelling public. Also naming them different would help such as TTrain or whatever like OTrain or CTrain. Just as at Union you are informed of the way to GO and subway and Spadina/Waterfront streetcars.

I thing thing like this will help but the fact that it is so comphrehensive, being built by 2020 so it will force Toronto to fast track the whole program and construction so it doesn't have to work on TTC time where they wouldn't even start contruction on any of them for atleast 5 years so they can study it to death,and the province paying 66% it will be a resounding success.

I am truly drulling tou lucky bastards!! r


LRT
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Old June 19th, 2007, 03:15 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
the streetcar is so superior to the electric trolly bus
Either it's superior or not -- why bother guaging the extent of superiority should the supremeness of something ultimately reign. Can you prove this claim of yours without becoming sulky ? (Most of you Toronto forummers really ought to re-read what you post -- you heap mounds of mounds of praise by way of phony modifiers, etc., etc., plus by the extent of your replies you end up soliciting you're embarassing yourselves and this country.)

Bendy, double-decker busses -- the capacity offered by busses nowadays ain't all that far behind trains-in-streets.

Be your own guests if you'd rather not promote your trams to LRTs . . . it's not as though anybody's going to (ahem) miss any thing . . .

Last edited by elkram; June 19th, 2007 at 03:21 AM.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 05:45 AM   #169
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elkram- dude your posts are non-sensical. What the hell are you trying to say anyways? You obviously have some issues with the city of Toronto, but in all of your comments you have failed to achieve anything except for make yourself look like a fool. By the way, please explain what a phony modifier in this context is- considering people tend to use them so regularly..
----------------done

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Old June 19th, 2007, 05:59 AM   #170
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Holy christ...all that blather about a "so". We both know your position is weak, but I had no idea you were that far gone. Right...and I'm the national embarassment????


Quote:
Can you prove this claim of yours without becoming sulky
Yes I can... and a hell of a lot easier than it is for you to ask a question without being a complete troll. If your anti-Toronto rage is so out-of-control, why not just remove yourself from it and seek a 12-step program or something. Why you choose to continuously troll Toronto threads is really beyond me.




Quote:
Bendy, double-decker busses -- the capacity offered by busses nowadays ain't all that far behind trains-in-streets.

The advantages of streetcars go beyond simple vehicle capacity.



Quote:
Be your own guests if you'd rather not promote your trams to LRTs . . . it's not as though anybody's going to (ahem) miss any thing . . .
I'm hoping you can make sense of this...cause I sure can't.





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Old June 19th, 2007, 06:07 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkram View Post
This reversion to craving trams has become too much. Although I'm for this vehicle type, I'm strictly opposed to its being run in-street.

They're trying to revive a few tramways back here, and every resident who has recently cared to respond to the topic via the media here prefers electric trolley busses over trams any day.

Trains running down streets (trams, streetcars) is so Depressionesque, i.e., really flipping outdated. If public transport's going to make a real comeback, then these trams must certainly be limited to their very own rights of way.
Reversion to craving trams?? WTF are you blithering about? Toronto never got rid of its streetcars. This thread is about Toronto's streetcars, not what some halfwits say in Montreal when they are interviewed by Le Journal de Montréal. I'm sure most of them have never seen a "tram" and think they are just those ridiculous sight seeing buses. If you don't want them in Montreal, big deal. We want them here. Why do you frequent any thread involving Toronto's transit system, or its streetcars? You have a weak grasp of the system and you habitually complain.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 06:14 AM   #172
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Just noticed this on the thread showcasing Melbournes streetcars: looks like the same LRT vehicle that the TTC shows on their little info site- I have also heard they are gunning for one particular model- could this be it?

courtesy of Yardmaster

Seems to only be a temporary addition to the fleet in Melbourne as well- testing possibly?

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Last edited by p5archit; June 19th, 2007 at 06:17 AM. Reason: elkram=troll
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Old June 19th, 2007, 06:24 AM   #173
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Depressionesque? What's this guys problem? Does he think everyone on Toronto's streetcars is on their way to the breadline, or to sell moonshine to their Yankee neighbours? Wierd.

Oh, and great thread!
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Old June 19th, 2007, 04:46 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by gappa View Post
Depressionesque? What's this guys problem? Does he think everyone on Toronto's streetcars is on their way to the breadline, or to sell moonshine to their Yankee neighbours? Wierd.

Oh, and great thread!
The profile known as "elkram" (he has another profile, by the way) moved from Vancouver to a suburb of Montreal a number of years ago, and is mired in deep jealousy and anger toward Toronto (good old fashioned regional jealousy and ***** envy... and I suspect he has much to be envious of... LOL!).
Most of his entries sound like they are direct translations from Babelfish as he seems to struggle with the English language. I feel kind of sorry for him as he seems lonely, friendless and unhappy.
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Last edited by Taller, Better; June 19th, 2007 at 05:19 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 11:08 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
all that blather about a "so".
Heh heh, you done it again, huh? "that", "so" -- only thing is, you keep strewing these boards with your aimless hype . . . I notice you T'o forummers squabble the most with folks here hailing from Sydney, Australia . . . all the while reminding me of the Bushes.

"Reversion", coz virtually the whole world wishes to bring back trams.

"Depressionesque", coz traffic jams of those decades pale when compared today's traffic-jam patterns.

Trams are great although they don't belong in the streets alongside autos. If trams must run in-street, then dedicate the remainder of traffic lanes (mind you, T'o's streets are too constricted to begin with) of the converted street to bicycle traffic, while ensuring tram drivers can override the traffic-signal sequences when approaching intersections. Sure, this vehicular prohibition I suggest might sound zany but folks would eventually adjust their (ahem) lifestyles.

I gather that establishing trolleys costs 1/50 of erecting in-street tramways, and take far less time to implement. Trams are prone to obstruction; trolleys can skirt around such impediments. Plus with the advent of the technology involving guidance beacons being embedded into asphalt, tramways risk becoming obselete all the sooner (due to the inherently excessive construction and maintenance costs).

You know, I shook my head some weeks ago when I saw the recent plan (map) depicting currently proposed tramways earlier in this thread -- a place with millions of people deserves better modes of transport than those outlined in the plan.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 02:43 AM   #176
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Heh heh, you done it again, huh? "that", "so"

Dude...you are about the last person who should be lecturing about grammar. Besides that, it's a pretty lame attempt at tap-dancing around the fact you don't seem to have nearly enough facts to debate the actual topic with.


Quote:
"Reversion", coz virtually the whole world wishes to bring back trams.
Well, if you were talking about other cities, then I might (almost) be inclined to agree with you that it's a trendy bandwagon many cities seem over-eager to jump on lately.

But...we aren't talking about other cities...we are talking about Toronto...a city which has had a well-used and well-loved streetcar network working continuously for more than 140 years. We already know they work well here.

We already know that streetcars move more people, faster...than a bus running on the same route.

We already know people prefer riding a streetcar over a bus...replace a bus route with a streetcar, and watch ridership climb. And ridership is an important factor in the transit business.

This is not to say they would work well everywhere.



Quote:
Trams are great although they don't belong in the streets alongside autos.

Says who? Not that it's all that important, but they have been running in the streets of Toronto longer than autos have.

It's your logic that seems odd. Buses are somehow ok to be "running in the streets" with autos, while streetcars are not. Meanwhile, they are both just transit vehicles. The only difference is that the streetcar's wheels are on tracks. Do you have some kind of rubber fetish or something?

Oh...and what...now you think trams are great????? Or is it just that anything that is generally great just turn to shite when they are in Toronto? ha ha ha



Quote:
If trams must run in-street, then dedicate the remainder of traffic lanes (mind you, T'o's streets are too constricted to begin with) of the converted street to bicycle traffic, while ensuring tram drivers can override the traffic-signal sequences when approaching intersections. Sure, this vehicular prohibition I suggest might sound zany but folks would eventually adjust their (ahem) lifestyles.

Well, as I said before, this is only an issue at certain times in the downtown core...otherwise, cars and streetcars share the road just fine.

But, the things you speak of have already been contemplated (do you really think YOU know something the TTC people don't?...get over yourself). Next summer, a stretch of King will be doing just that. But while it's easy to "say" it, reality is something much different....taxpayers (aka businesses) do have some say, and politicians have to listen. Businesses get a little nervous about closing the streets to cusomer parking and deliveries. It's not as simple as you like to think.

And transit signal priority is already in place.




Quote:
I gather that establishing trolleys costs 1/50 of erecting in-street tramways, and take far less time to implement.

Well, I don't know about your 1/50th figure, but it doesn't matter...initial capital costs are not the trick...it's long term operating costs and efficiency and ridership growth that is key.




Quote:
Trams are prone to obstruction; trolleys can skirt around such impediments.
It's almost tiring to keep refuting this often quoted, but misguided claim.

First off...why would you choose an inferior transit mode because of something that doesn't happen very often? You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Secondly, streetcars CAN get around an obstruction....they are alerted of it before hand, and can take one of the many short-turn routes located on either side of the "obstruction". An "obstruction" is generally an accident involving autos. They are generally moved out of the way quite quickly. And in such instances before they are, it blocks everything anyway...buses or streetcars aren't getting through. It's really a moot point.

There are other advantages the streetcar has, but I see little point in getting into a more comprehensive discussion about it with you.



Quote:
You know, I shook my head some weeks ago when I saw the recent plan (map) depicting currently proposed tramways earlier in this thread -- a place with millions of people deserves better modes of transport than those outlined in the plan.

Yea...well, you know what makes me shake my head? The fact that you think you have enough knowledge about it to even imagine you could form an opinion about it.





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Old June 20th, 2007, 03:16 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by p5archit View Post
Just noticed this on the thread showcasing Melbournes streetcars: looks like the same LRT vehicle that the TTC shows on their little info site- I have also heard they are gunning for one particular model- could this be it?

courtesy of Yardmaster

Seems to only be a temporary addition to the fleet in Melbourne as well- testing possibly?

p5
i saw someone on another board have their signature with that LRV in what he thinks TTC livery will look on them, and it looks really good
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Old June 20th, 2007, 03:18 AM   #178
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Few things are more rewarding that watching elkram get well and truly trod upon!

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Old June 20th, 2007, 03:14 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
Says who? Not that it's all that important, but they have been running in the streets of Toronto longer than autos have.

It's your logic that seems odd. Buses are somehow ok to be "running in the streets" with autos, while streetcars are not. Meanwhile, they are both just transit vehicles. The only difference is that the streetcar's wheels are on tracks.



KGB
Not taking elkram's side, but civil engineers will agree, better to run rail vehicles and road vehicles in segregated environments, not a shared thoroughfare. St.Clair, Spaidna etc., such models are great... but things like Queen (excluding Queensway and further west)? Not so hot.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 07:54 PM   #180
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why would you choose an inferior transit mode
You might be accusatory but at least you're passionate about this. Of all my comments, you didn't peg onto my claim about busses being refashioned into possessing promising technology that's coming on-stream, but then again nothing more than sheer mediocrity hails from Canada . . . move forward, be innovative.

At least King is a start (it's taken ages to implement, I heard about launching this plan years ago there).
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