daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 31st, 2016, 04:03 AM   #1
tradephoric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 24

Traffic light "green waves"

A green wave occurs when traffic lights are coordinated so that you hit a string of green lights. Do you know of any streets with long green waves? Here's an example from Detroit:

Consecutive greens: 16
Wave distance:
3.8 miles
Location:
M-10 (Detroit, Michigan)

Last edited by tradephoric; October 31st, 2016 at 04:12 AM.
tradephoric no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 31st, 2016, 04:35 PM   #2
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

55 green lights in Manhattan:

ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2016, 06:53 PM   #3
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,465
Likes (Received): 3437

Zagreb
12 lights westbound (2,3km)
12 lights eastbound (1,8 km)

unfortunately, lousy video, I couldn't find better.

__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...

Japanac liked this post

Last edited by x-type; October 31st, 2016 at 06:58 PM.
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2016, 09:38 PM   #4
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

There used to be a road in Ljubljana with a green wave (Tržaška cesta), but not any more, at least not that I'm aware of.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2016, 02:02 AM   #5
tradephoric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 24

Here’s a lengthy green wave along Detroit’s iconic Woodward Avenue.

Consecutive greens: 69
Wave distance: 20.7 miles
Location: Woodward Avenue (Detroit, Michigan)
tradephoric no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2016, 02:32 AM   #6
tradephoric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 24

This one is pretty epic! This cabbie drives 1st Avenue from Houston Street to 125th without hitting a red light.

Consecutive greens: 121
Wave distance: 6.3 miles
Location: 1st Avenue (NYC)

Last edited by tradephoric; November 2nd, 2016 at 02:43 AM.
tradephoric no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2016, 11:15 AM   #7
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

What are the chances of getting all lights green during the day? The Woodward Avenue one was during the day, and a much longer distance.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2016, 11:19 AM   #8
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19366

Green waves were common in the Netherlands in the 1990s and early 2000s, but disappeared mostly due to bus priority on crossing roads.

They replaced green waves with network traffic signal coordination, to reduce delays over a network, instead of a single road. Some use advisory speed limits so you can hit the next light green.

Some mostly rural traffic signals have detectors for semi trucks, so they keep the light green if a semi truck approaches.

I filmed this system with advisory speed limits in my city a few years ago:
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2016, 06:15 PM   #9
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by tradephoric View Post
This one is pretty epic! This cabbie drives 1st Avenue from Houston Street to 125th without hitting a red light.

Consecutive greens: 121
Wave distance: 6.3 miles
That's a lot of traffic lights! What the heck is that "chimney" at 4:09?
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2016, 06:46 PM   #10
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Barcelona has many long (>1 km) green waves. The longest ones are in Gran Via and Carrer d'Aragó; you can drive almost the whole length of these streets without stopping at a red light when traffic is fine. Muntaner, Balmes, Sepúlveda, Mallorca or Rambla de Guipúscoa do also have this feature, at least during the day. At night light syncing is changed and you can't hit a long green wave. The shape of Barcelona's Eixample blocks, which are all square and have wide streets between them, is definitely of great help.

In some of these streets green waves do also work for pedestrians. Walking at a reasonable pace (4-5 km/h) all crosswalks are green for much of Gran Via or Aragó.

I shot this video back in 2012. I was lucky that the lights at the end of Carrer d'Aragó and Plaça d'Espanya were green; in fact I almost ran a red. However when traffic was this light crossing the city stopping just 3 or 4 times (out of 30+ lights) was feasible. Today there are roadworks at Plaça de les Glòries and that means some extra red lights, but when the tunnel that's now U/C is finished the route Gran Via-Marina-Aragó-Tarragona-Gran Via (freeway-to-freeway) will again be almost all green. That's quite a long way.



Valencia is another Spanish city that has very long green waves on the main streets. Traffic is usually better than in Barcelona so driving there is a pleasure.
__________________

Vignole liked this post

Last edited by verreme; November 2nd, 2016 at 06:55 PM.
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2016, 06:47 PM   #11
tradephoric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 24

The great thing about Woodward Avenue is that you can get green waves in both directions of travel. The best way to exemplify this is with a time-distance diagram. I know this doesn't look that impressive, but it's rare for a corridor to have long "green waves" in BOTH directions of travel.


tradephoric no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2016, 11:45 PM   #12
niskogradnja
Used Register
 
niskogradnja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,986
Likes (Received): 592

In Switzerland I know only there are a lot of red wawes in the city I live and in Geneva. A green wawe would only disturb the swiss people, as they love to wait in a line for anything. When I go to work at 5.30AM I have to wait at a couple of traffic lights, even if there are no other vehicles in the intersection other then mine.
__________________
Bosna je zemlja prepuna čari, Trepeta šuma i bljeska vode, Brda joj kite gradovi stari, Nad njima sinji oblaci brode. Čini se, to je začaran kraj Kroz koji vilu progoni zmaj.

Branko Ćopić (1915 – 1984)

TrojaA liked this post
niskogradnja no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2016, 02:14 AM   #13
tradephoric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 24

You can hit a green wave driving down Central in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

tradephoric no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2016, 09:54 PM   #14
tradephoric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What are the chances of getting all lights green during the day?
It's probably a lot harder to hit a good green wave in Manhattan during the middle of the day but it does happen. This guy drove 3rd Avenue from 53rd to 99th street in the middle of the day without hitting a red light.

tradephoric no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 06:31 PM   #15
tradephoric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 24

An UBER driver cruises through 236 consecutive green lights in Manhattan. The story was picked up by many national news outlets.

Consecutive greens: 236
Wave distance:
12.3 miles
Location:
Manhattan (Start at Mt Morris Park & 121st.. cruises down 5th Ave, 6th Ave, and 2nd Ave).


A sped up version can be viewed here:
http://abc7ny.com/traffic/uber-drive...n-nyc/1676555/
tradephoric no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th, 2017, 11:16 PM   #16
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 635
Likes (Received): 121

A green wave is often a myth.

It is possible if certain conditions are met, and even then it is usually possible in one direction at a time only; to have it possible in both directions is very rare.

What I mean by myth is that drivers who don't bother with simple mathematics often believe that it is possible anytime and anywhere; and as a result, they believe that the lack of it is intentional laziness or malevolence from the part of the street administration; and the frustration of such laziness or malevolence is then shown on social media.
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 4th, 2017, 11:58 PM   #17
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,795
Likes (Received): 613

Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
A green wave is often a myth.

It is possible if certain conditions are met, and even then it is usually possible in one direction at a time only; to have it possible in both directions is very rare.
True. A bidirectional green wave is sometimes achievable on parallel one-way streets apart enough. Such as in Helsinki on Lönnrotinkatu and Uudenmaankatu which are quite short streets and two blocks apart. This does not come for free: The waiting time of the crossing traffic is excessive at several crossings.

The more the city differs from a grid plan with equal-size blocks, the more mission impossible a green wave is to be implemented on more than one street.
MattiG está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2017, 02:22 PM   #18
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,795
Likes (Received): 613

Here is a nice summary slide deck about the problematic to create a bidirectional green wave:

http://www.liikennevalot.info/opi/do...ordination.ppt
MattiG está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2017, 06:06 PM   #19
tradephoric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes (Received): 24

In theory, any two-way street with evenly spaced traffic signals and a constant speed limit is capable of bidirectional green waves. So why isn’t it more common? The crux of the problem is traffic signals are spaced too closely together to make bidirectional green waves practical along most two-way streets. As traffic signals get closer, the required cycle length to achieve good green waves gets shorter. There’s a pretty simple formula to determine if a two-way road is capable of achieving bidirectional green waves.

Max cycle length = 2 X travel time.

For example, if it takes 30 seconds to drive between traffic signals, the maximum cycle length that could achieve bidirectional green waves is 60 seconds. Unfortunately, a 60 second cycle length is often too short in the real world (won’t fit pedestrian times, not enough time to fit left-turn phases, too much wasted green time for yellow/red safety intervals). There are a lot of two-way roads out there where it takes less than 30 seconds to drive between traffic signals. It doesn’t matter if the speed limit is 25 mph or 55 mph, if it’s only taking 30 seconds to drive between traffic signals you are pretty much screwed (assuming the traffic signals are simultaneously stopping both directions of travel). Keep in mind, a lot of streets run 120 second cycle lengths during rush hour to maximize throughput. In that case, it would need to take 60 seconds to drive between traffic signals to achieve a bidirectional green wave.
tradephoric no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2017, 09:19 PM   #20
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 635
Likes (Received): 121

The minor streets crossing the main street should be somewhat equal in traffic density, because the green phases given to each of them must be equal.

If some of the minor streets have a significantly greater traffic density than others, and a green wave is still wanted, then a choice must be made: whether the green phase given to the minor streets is based on that required by those with the greater density, or those with the smaller.

If the green phase is too long, then time is wasted without anybody moving. This causes frustration in those drivers who are forced to wait, seemingly because of nothing.

If the green phase is too short, that obviously causes congestion in that direction.
__________________
Countries visited, driven in, (not independent), former:
A B CH CZ D DK E EST F FIN GB (+GBZ) GR H I L LT LV MAL MC N NL PL RUS S SGP SK SLO T TR YU
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium