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Old August 28th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #661
RS_UK-PL
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Here's another example...

Breslau


Wroclaw


Breslau


Wroclaw (the same place)


In my opinion the post-war variations are more beautiful.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 28th, 2012 at 11:34 AM.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #662
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Quote:
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It's good to see that in Soest, at least, the postwar Germans did a proper job of rebuilding.






.
I went to Soest a few weeks ago (and to Erfurt, Weimar, Naumburg, Lutherstadt Eisleben, Quedlinburg, Wernigerode and Goslar) and Soest was a pretty nice city. Lot of old romanic and gothic architecture, and a lot of timberframed houses, some are rebuild and some aren't even touched by World War II
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Old August 28th, 2012, 12:20 PM   #663
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Schönebeck-Salzelmen


Burg bei Magdeburg






Jerichow
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Old August 28th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #664
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Stendal











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Old August 28th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #665
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Zerbst















Are there btw any plans to rebuild the Innercity of Zerbst? I know they have plans to rebuild the Zerbster Schloß, but I'm talking about buildings like the Nicolaikirche, the Rathaus or some houses.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #666
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The Polish Commies decided that the pre-war square should not get reconstructed, because many of the buildings were from the 19th century, when the city was part of Prussia and the German Empire. Neoclassicism and historicism were considered to be too German. Instead they decided to reconstruct the baroque appearance of the square, when the city was part of the Austrian Empire and allegedly not German (which illustrates how clueless ideologists are). These reconstructions were based on plans by Rudolf Stein, who was the municipal monument conservator of the city in the 1920s and 1930s. He published several books about the history of the old town to fight against the influence of some architects, who wanted to turn the city centre into some kind of modern utopia. Steins plans however were not entirely accurate, a fact that didn't bother the Commies.
I noticed that the top of the current church tower is shorter and constructed of a black material rather than the previous brick. Was that decision based on Rudolf Stein's plans as well, or is this an example commie Elbląg style "originality"?
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Old August 28th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #667
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The black material is copper that hasn't turned green yet.

Anyway, neither is actually accurate because the original tower had a gothic spire which was 130 meters tall. Too bad it wasn't rebuilt that way.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Roy Beam View Post
I noticed that the top of the current church tower is shorter and constructed of a black material rather than the previous brick. Was that decision based on Rudolf Stein's plans as well, or is this an example commie Elbląg style "originality"?
There were 3(!) fires after 1945. In 1962 and 1975 "only" the church tower was affected, but in 1976 the entire church. Reconstruction started in 1977 and ended in 96.
But now that you mention it I notice the different tower too. AFAIK the baroque tower (1686) was made of copper. In the late 19th century the entire church was altered and many parts were covered with industrial made bricks, probably also the tower. So, it looks like the Commies restored the baroque appearance, which makes sense and supports what I said before.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #669
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From all the cities that Germany lost after WWII Breslau was certainly the biggest loss - architecturally and ideally!
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Old August 29th, 2012, 01:26 PM   #670
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From all the cities that Germany lost after WWII Breslau was certainly the biggest loss - architecturally and ideally!
Stettin ranked up there pretty high as well. It was, after all, Berlin's port amongst other things.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 01:59 PM   #671
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Stettin ranked up there pretty high as well. It was, after all, Berlin's port amongst other things.
Exactly that's why Stettin wasn't that important. The city was too close to Berlin, and the centre of a rather underdeveloped part of Prussia/Germany. Breslau was *much* bigger (just compare the size of the old towns), it was farther away from Berlin, and Silesia was one of the richest and most developed regions of the country.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #672
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Farmers market on Neumarkt, Breslau, around 1900




Maybe RS_UK-PL can post a pic of todays square. We could compare which one is better...
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Old August 29th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #673
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Unfortunately, today's square is not a very good sight to look at... it's quite depressive actually.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
Exactly that's why Stettin wasn't that important. The city was too close to Berlin, and the centre of a rather underdeveloped part of Prussia/Germany. Breslau was *much* bigger (just compare the size of the old towns), it was farther away from Berlin, and Silesia was one of the richest and most developed regions of the country.
Good point.

Gotta wonder though, if East Germany somehow managed to retain Lower Silesia after the war. Would Ulbricht have done as horrible of a job rebuilding Breslau as he did in say Chemnitz or Magdeburg?

All things being equal, I can't imagine that he would do otherwise.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #675
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Interesting question!

I would say that Chemnitz and Magdeburg before WWII weren’t in the same league as Breslau.
The Silesian capital was more comparable to Dresden in terms of significance and prestige. No one would have dared f. ex. to rename Breslau into Friedrich-Engels-Stadt or something else.

So a hypothetic reconstruction of a still German Breslau would have been more similar to Dresden and Leipzig!
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Old August 29th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #676
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Interesting question!

I would say that Chemnitz and Magdeburg before WWII weren’t in the same league as Breslau.
The Silesian capital was more comparable to Dresden in terms of significance and prestige. No one would have dared f. ex. to rename Breslau into Friedrich-Engels-Stadt or something else.

So a hypothetic reconstruction of a still German Breslau would have been more similar to Dresden and Leipzig!
Except that the East Germans didn't do a particularly good job with either. Most of the good stuff in both cities happened after reunification.

Consider too that prior to WWII, Magdeburg was considered one of Germany's most beautiful and historically important cities.

If Ulbricht didn't give a rat's ass about Magdeburg, why would he worry about what Breslau looked like?
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Old August 29th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #677
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Originally Posted by Judge Roy Beam View Post
Most of the good stuff in both cities happened after reunification.
The same could have happened with Breslau!

And in Dresden they restored at least the Zwinger and the Semper opera during GDR imes. And they begun in the mid-80's with the reconstruction of the "Schloss".

In Leipzig I know about the following restaurations and partial reconstructions: Hauptbahnhof, Altes Rathaus, Handelsbörse, Alte Waage

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Originally Posted by Judge Roy Beam View Post
Consider too that prior to WWII, Magdeburg was considered one of Germany's most beautiful and historically important cities.
Historically very important of course but annihilated during the 30-years war. it used to be a small big city and certainly less important than Breslau.

But yes, it's very probable that a German Breslau wouldn't be as nice as Wroclaw is today!
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Old August 29th, 2012, 06:52 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by Judge Roy Beam View Post
Good point.

Gotta wonder though, if East Germany somehow managed to retain Lower Silesia after the war. Would Ulbricht have done as horrible of a job rebuilding Breslau as he did in say Chemnitz or Magdeburg?
Interesting question. First of all, Chemnitz and Magdeburg were carpet bombed, Breslau was not. The centres of both cities in Middle Germany were completely erased, whereas some parts of the western old town in Breslau were in relatively good condition.
Lets compare the actions of both Commie regimes. The German Commies reconstructed only a few profane buildings of outstanding value, destroyed several others which were related to Prussia or the German Empire, destroyed a few churches but otherwise ignored them, and usually didn't care about the 19th century expansion.
The Polish Commies weren't that much different. They reconstructed more profane buildings, mainly on the northern and eastern side of the main square. At the same time they also destroyed Prussian heritage, like the royal castle or Hatzfeld palais. Their treatment of churches wasn't better, just more extreme. They reconstructed several buildings on cathdral island, but also gutted some churches. And they built a four lane road which cuts through the old town, something the German Commies could have done too. What wouldn't have happened in German Breslau were three other things. The Polish Commies leveled several quarters to gain building material for Warsaw, they sent most movable cultural assets to Warsaw, and they destroyed almost all cemeteries.
But the biggest difference are the people that live in the city. For understandable reasons Poles had a deep hate for all things German, so living in a German city was painful for them, and they had no relation to the heritage of the city. That's why towns and villages in the so called "recovered territories" (and the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia) suffered more than in other region of the Eastern block.
So, how would German Breslau look today? I think in the old town it would be more or less the same. Less reconstructions, but also less destructions. Cathedral island would look much worse. The quarters from the 19th century probably marginally better (especially after the revitalisations since 1989). The main difference would be the cultural heritage. The cemeteries would still exist, the museums wouldn't be empty, and the public sphere wouldn't be so unhistoric.

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Consider too that prior to WWII, Magdeburg was considered one of Germany's most beautiful and historically important cities.
The Magdeburg lost in WW2 was just a Prussian provincial city with huge 19th century quarters and lots of military and public officers.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #679
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Interesting question. First of all, Chemnitz and Magdeburg were carpet bombed, Breslau was not.
Do you really think there was much difference at the end of the day?

Some exemplary photos of Breslau/Wrocław in 1945: pic1, pic2, pic3, pic4.

Breslau/Wrocław had been declared Festung and as such was very likely it would be destroyed during the siege.

Also, as far as I know, during preparations to the siege Germans destroyed some parts of the city themselves, like around Plac Grunwaldzki, where townhouse estates were demolished to make place for a new military airfield.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 03:56 AM   #680
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Since we are talking about Breslau/Wroclaw:

This is how a future reconstruction of the Royal Palace can look like



Current situation:


(1), (2), (6), (7), (8) and (9) remain to this day, however the comunists tore down (3), (4) and (5)


1945: (The communists had to remove/reduce this significant German structure)


But first on my list is a future reconstruction of the Tower at the former Liebichshohe


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