daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 1st, 2012, 02:14 AM   #721
TheReconstructer
Registered User
 
TheReconstructer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hoorn
Posts: 528
Likes (Received): 176

Brandenburg an der Havel


















TheReconstructer no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 1st, 2012, 02:19 AM   #722
TheReconstructer
Registered User
 
TheReconstructer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hoorn
Posts: 528
Likes (Received): 176

Bad Berka


TheReconstructer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2012, 12:05 PM   #723
ja.centy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kraków/Dublin
Posts: 346
Likes (Received): 61

Quote:
Originally Posted by JValjean View Post
That’s the old (French) trick: Germany didn’t exist before 1871 so there were no German cities before that date ?!?

You know that Breslau was part of the Holy Roman Empire (later with appendix: of German Nation) since the middle ages and that it used to be a German speaking city from this time on until 1945.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
And I'm not sure why you ask when Silesia became part of Prussia and the German Empire. If you want to insist that the region, and the city, somehow weren't German before you probably still believe in the Commie bollocks of the Polish city who was turned into a German one by the Prussians.
I just asked a simple question to find out if you know some history of Wrocław/Breslau. And unfortunately I didn't get a simple answer.

Then, please be advised that Wrocław became the part of Kingdom of Prussia in 1742, after the 1st Silesian War with Austria (History of Wrocław).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
Source 1:
Marek Zybura - "Impressionen aus der Kulturlandschaft Schlesien, Band 3 - Der Umgang mit dem deutschen Kulturerbe in Schlesien nach 1945", Senfkorn, Görlitz, 2005

A Polish historian who works at the universities of Wroclaw and Opole.
Ok, thanks for the info. Was he on a scholar grant from Goerlitz to publish there, and not in Poland? And, as a matter of interest, do you know if his statements are confirmed by any notable Polish historians?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
But I was wrong with the numbers, sorry. 28 waggons and 118 trucks in 1945, 13 waggons in 1946. After 1946 this looting was better organized and several collective points were established to transfer works of art from the former German territories to Inner Poland. Exact numbers and destinations aren't known, which was intended.
I don't know, it could well be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
And I think it's more than the Nazis destroyed or have stolen in WW2.
You are a fcukin' troll, Karasek. You had already given some indication here and in another thread that your knowledge of Poland is either limited or biased, or both.

Poland had been plundered by fcukin' Germans and Russians since the time of Partitions. Have you heard, for example, that already in 1794 the Polish Crown Jewels were stolen from the Wawel Castle by Prussians, or about the transfer of alleged 'Prussian' artefacts from Prussia-occupied Warsaw?

Now, during WW1 the eastern front was running mainly through Poland. Certainly, neither Germans nor Russians did care of architectural losses they caused. Plus, there was a Law of War as usual, which allowed both sides to loot anything and everything they considered of value in the lands they were occupying at the time.

And then we ultimately had the organised Grand Nazi Plunder during WW2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_plunder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_...g_World_War_II

http://translate.google.ie/translate...Kulturkampf%2F

And Russians weren't any better.

http://translate.google.ie/translate...zy%2F%3Fpg%3D0


According to Polish professor Jan Pruszyński, the estimated market value of art objects looted in Poland in 1939-45 by Germans and Russians is $30 billion (30 miliardów USD)!

And that just artefacts. I don't speak about huge architectural losses like the organised destruction of Warsaw.

Last edited by ja.centy; September 1st, 2012 at 12:12 PM.
ja.centy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2012, 01:31 PM   #724
Oslo2022
Registered User
 
Oslo2022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 849

Breslau - Postcards



Wroclaw - Today

__________________
Nĺ er det lenge siden 1952!

Last edited by Oslo2022; September 2nd, 2012 at 03:23 PM.
Oslo2022 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2012, 01:32 PM   #725
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

DEL

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; September 1st, 2012 at 08:59 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2012, 02:08 PM   #726
Odoaker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,211
Likes (Received): 787

Germany's fault was not to extinct and expel all Polish and Slavic remainings from early on. They were just too tolerant.

Kassel




Last edited by Odoaker; September 1st, 2012 at 02:14 PM.
Odoaker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2012, 02:12 PM   #727
TheReconstructer
Registered User
 
TheReconstructer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hoorn
Posts: 528
Likes (Received): 176

Kassel looked really great in these pictures, especially the Martinskirche, if you compare the church with now....
TheReconstructer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2012, 02:21 PM   #728
Bavarian Angelshark
Modernism sucks
 
Bavarian Angelshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TRAUNSTEIN
Posts: 1,032
Likes (Received): 1434

And today Kassel's inner city is a shabby, rundown piece of modern crap.
Bavarian Angelshark no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2012, 02:23 PM   #729
Odoaker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,211
Likes (Received): 787

Please, don't remind us of the present

More Kassel









Odoaker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2012, 04:26 PM   #730
Odoaker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,211
Likes (Received): 787

Some Berolina

Perhaps for inhabitants most exciting are these pictures of Kaiserdamm first and Kurfürstendamm subsequently





<3










Last edited by Odoaker; September 1st, 2012 at 04:34 PM.
Odoaker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 03:21 AM   #731
GFM 3D
Registered User
 
GFM 3D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 656
Likes (Received): 126

Nice view of Palais Raczynski Also, Berlin had such a lovely skyline...

One more of Kassel

GFM 3D no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 03:50 AM   #732
Odoaker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,211
Likes (Received): 787

My (our ) source is bildindex.de by the way
Odoaker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 11:51 AM   #733
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,657

Today we have gems like this in Kassel:

__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 01:23 PM   #734
Karasek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lusatia Superior
Posts: 1,811
Likes (Received): 804

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
I just asked a simple question to find out if you know some history of Wrocław/Breslau. And unfortunately I didn't get a simple answer.

Then, please be advised that Wrocław became the part of Kingdom of Prussia in 1742, after the 1st Silesian War with Austria (History of Wrocław).
Oh, it was a quiz to test our knowledge... sorry, it was so out of context that I didn't get it.
How about this: what is the name of the Silesian cleric who at first introduced the Protestant Reformation to Silesia, but later became more radical and had to leave Silesia, while his followers migrated to America 200 years later?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
Ok, thanks for the info. Was he on a scholar grant from Goerlitz to publish there, and not in Poland? And, as a matter of interest, do you know if his statements are confirmed by any notable Polish historians?
He is a notable Polish historian, and this German publication is just a translation of one of his Polish works.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
You are a fcukin' troll, Karasek. You had already given some indication here and in another thread that your knowledge of Poland is either limited or biased, or both.
No, you only gave some indication that you don't have a clue about modern historiography and probably still believe in Commie fairytales.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
Poland had been plundered by fcukin' Germans and Russians since the time of Partitions. Have you heard, for example, that already in 1794 the Polish Crown Jewels were stolen from the Wawel Castle by Prussians, or about the transfer of alleged 'Prussian' artefacts from Prussia-occupied Warsaw?
Now, during WW1 the eastern front was running mainly through Poland. Certainly, neither Germans nor Russians did care of architectural losses they caused. Plus, there was a Law of War as usual, which allowed both sides to loot anything and everything they considered of value in the lands they were occupying at the time.

Looks like you can't read either. I didn't know that WW2 lasted that long.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
And then we ultimately had the organised Grand Nazi Plunder during WW2.

According to Polish professor Jan Pruszyński, the estimated market value of art objects looted in Poland in 1939-45 by Germans and Russians is $30 billion (30 miliardów USD)!

And that just artefacts. I don't speak about huge architectural losses like the organised destruction of Warsaw.
With Silesia (I don't know the numbers in Pomerania and East Prussia) Poland received ~120 cities and towns, more than 1200 castles, palaces and manors, more than 2.000 churches, at least 30 large, old libraries, among them the biggest privately owned in Germany and so on.
Did Polish professor Jan Pruszyński, who mostly published in Commie times, also estimate the market value of the objects and buildings Poland received? What's the market value of 1.200 castles?
Karasek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 01:56 PM   #735
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
With Silesia (I don't know the numbers in Pomerania and East Prussia) Poland received ~120 cities and towns, more than 1200 castles, palaces and manors, more than 2.000 churches, at least 30 large, old libraries, among them the biggest privately owned in Germany and so on.
Did Polish professor Jan Pruszyński, who mostly published in Commie times, also estimate the market value of the objects and buildings Poland received? What's the market value of 1.200 castles?
Source?

Poland lost a lot of castles, cities, libraries, museums, etc. in Kresy. In return for Kresy, 5-6 million of casualties during WW2, Polish art collections worth ~$30 billion looted or destroyed by Russians and Germans, heavy losses in industry, wiped out capital Warsaw, etc. we've received completely destroyed German territories (you should add that German cities were severly damaged, castles, churches, libraries and palaces were in ruins and almost all artworks were already looted by Soviets).

Is this enough? I don't think so. You've asked us "What's the market value of 1.200 castles?" and I will ask what is the price of 5-6 million Polish casualties during WW2 started by Germany? How much is worth life of someone's mother, father, brother, sister, daughter, son, uncles, grandparents...?

BTW, some sites inscribed on the UNESCO World Heritage List lost by Poland after WW2:
- Lwow (now Lviv)
- Wilno (now Vilnius)
- Nieswiez Castle (now Nesvizh)
- Mir Castle

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; September 2nd, 2012 at 04:36 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 02:14 PM   #736
Odoaker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,211
Likes (Received): 787

LOL at precious Polish art. Cities. Whatever. Your national resurrection after WWI only caused countless losses of real artsitic values of important nations. Without your existence, today the world would be brighter. Noone misses Polish "culture".
Odoaker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 02:27 PM   #737
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,657

__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 03:54 PM   #738
Puritan
Registered User
 
Puritan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 396
Likes (Received): 1615

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
BTW, some sites inscribed on the UNESCO World Heritage List lost by Poland after WW2:
- Lwow (now Lviv)
- Wilno (now Vilnius)
- Nieswiez (now Nesvizh)
You win some, you lose some:

- Churches of Peace in Jawor and Świdnica
- Muskauer Park / Park Mużakowski
- Centennial Hall in Wrocław
- Malbork Castle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odoaker View Post
LOL at precious Polish art. Cities. Whatever. Your national resurrection after WWI only caused countless losses of real artsitic values of important nations. Without your existence, today the world would be brighter. Noone misses Polish "culture".
Adolf - give it a rest and go away (GTFA) with your nazi "untermensch" ideology.
Puritan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:11 PM   #739
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
You win some, you lose some:

- Churches of Peace in Jawor and Świdnica
- Muskauer Park / Park Mużakowski
- Centennial Hall in Wrocław
- Malbork Castle
I forgot about the Mir Castle (now Belarus)...

Malbork Castle 1945 (over 50% was destroyed, reconstructed by Poles)



The castle was Polish kings residence for 315 years (1457-1772) before Partitions of Poland that's why probably it was so nicely rebuilt.

Muskauer Park is divided between Poland and Germany, so I'm not sure if Poland actually "won" this site...
__________________

Domen123 liked this post

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; September 2nd, 2012 at 05:03 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:12 PM   #740
Odoaker
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,211
Likes (Received): 787

When I go anywhere, then to conquer what was mine. To compare the losses of Polish 3rd class heritage to the German ones is just ridiculous.

Würzburg





















Odoaker no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
alemania, classic architecture, classic europe, galerie, gdańsk, heritage, historical architecture

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu