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Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:18 PM   #741
ja.centy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odoaker View Post
Germany's fault was not to extinct and expel all Polish and Slavic remainings from early on. They were just too tolerant.
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Originally Posted by Odoaker View Post
LOL at precious Polish art. Cities. Whatever. Your national resurrection after WWI only caused countless losses of real artsitic values of important nations. Without your existence, today the world would be brighter. Noone misses Polish "culture".
I've just put your comments in bold, so that anyone who visits this thread can witness your high moral values and great culture.

I suppose, with such views or even hatred (did you go through any traumatic experience during childhood?), you wouldn't fool anyone with quasi-sensitivity towards architecture.

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Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
Oh, it was a quiz to test our knowledge... sorry, it was so out of context that I didn't get it.
Yes, it was. From the comments of some German users here, it might look as if Wrocław/Breslau was an 'ancient German city', whereas it's part of the ethnic Polish lands, and belonged to Prussia and then Germany only between 1742 and 1945.

And you wouldn't need to pull the argument of German-speaking inhabitants before 1742, as: (1) since 13th c. German settlers had been immigrating to different cities and locations in the entire Central-Eastern Europe (with or without invitation of local rulers); (2) after Prussians annexed Lower Silesia in 1742, there was still quite significant Polish population living in and around Wrocław; but that was soon to start changing due to Germanisation process enforced by the Prussian king.

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How about this: what is the name of the Silesian cleric who at first introduced the Protestant Reformation to Silesia, but later became more radical and had to leave Silesia, while his followers migrated to America 200 years later?
No idea.

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He is a notable Polish historian, and this German publication is just a translation of one of his Polish works.
I've googled him and it appears he's some kind of germanophile working in PL-DE associations and a centre of German studies, giving presentations and lectures emphasising the former German heritage in Silesia. It doesn't give him any credibility in my eyes.

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No, you only gave some indication that you don't have a clue about modern historiography and probably still believe in Commie fairytales.
Well, if you say so.

But I suppose nothing will beat Nazi fairytales.

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With Silesia (I don't know the numbers in Pomerania and East Prussia) Poland received ~120 cities and towns, more than 1200 castles, palaces and manors, more than 2.000 churches, at least 30 large, old libraries, among them the biggest privately owned in Germany and so on.
Did Polish professor Jan Pruszyński, who mostly published in Commie times, also estimate the market value of the objects and buildings Poland received? What's the market value of 1.200 castles?
As already posted by my fellow forumer, Poland had lost eastern territories, which were destroyed to fairly small extent, and received compensation by way of the former German lands in smaller geographic size, where: (a) most of the cities were in catastrophic conditions, (b) the industrial facilities of any value for the Soviets were dismantled using German POWs and then transported to the Soviet Union, (c) any art objects left by escaping Germans were looted by Soviets and probably also organised gangs of looters, after the front moved westwards.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 05:06 PM   #742
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As long as cruelty and madness are victorious and justice is for the champion only, I will worship these ideals. The Germans were right and they lost, I would be delighted to see what they could become with nothing but the pursuit of power.

Mainz

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Old September 2nd, 2012, 05:13 PM   #743
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What's that enormously long building with a courtyard on the left?
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 05:18 PM   #744
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Juliusspital



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Old September 2nd, 2012, 05:25 PM   #745
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The Lamm was faster.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 05:26 PM   #746
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Thanks.

So it still exists
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 06:38 PM   #747
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Source?
Zybura again. What are your sources?
And you know what? I'm tired of it now. All I wrote here comes from new, scientific sources, often Polish ones. It's obvious that you and the other Polish user don't have a clue about modern historiography, Silesia or recent Polish history in the "recovered territories", otherwise you wouldn't doubt what's common knowledge among post-Communist historians. Read some modern Polish books, the ones that don't count Poles in the "recovered territories", and come back.


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we've received completely destroyed German territories (you should add that German cities were severly damaged, castles, churches, libraries and palaces were in ruins and almost all artworks were already looted by Soviets).
Let me quote the memorandum of the Polish-Silesian preservationists from 1987: Silesia has 99 preserved and art-historically important cities and towns. The losses in WW2 were "marginal"(!). Yet not a single city or town, not even Wroclaw, has seen any reservation works. That's why it is already too late for many of them.


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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Is this enough? I don't think so. You've asked us "What's the market value of 1.200 castles?" and I will ask what is the price of 5-6 million Polish casualties during WW2 started by Germany? How much is worth life of someone's mother, father, brother, sister, daughter, son, uncles, grandparents...?
You changed the argument. We talked about destroyed heritage, not killed people. Nothing can replace killed people.

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Originally Posted by ja.centy
2) after Prussians annexed Lower Silesia in 1742, there was still quite significant Polish population living in and around Wrocław; but that was soon to start changing due to Germanisation process enforced by the Prussian king.
No, there wasn't. At least not a significant one in the city, although there were some linguistic enclaves close by. Read Norman Davies, he tries really hard, but can't find them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy
I've googled him and it appears he's some kind of germanophile working in PL-DE associations and a centre of German studies, giving presentations and lectures emphasising the former German heritage in Silesia. It doesn't give him any credibility in my eyes.

So, a Polish scientist who studied in Wroclaw and Vienna, worked at the universities of Wroclaw and Opole (and had a professorship there), lectured at Leipzig, Düsseldorf and Dresden, and is the curator of an institute, can't be credible because he talks with Germans too often? Oh boy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy
As already posted by my fellow forumer, Poland had lost eastern territories, which were destroyed to fairly small extent, and received compensation by way of the former German lands in smaller geographic size, where: (a) most of the cities were in catastrophic conditions, (b) the industrial facilities of any value for the Soviets were dismantled using German POWs and then transported to the Soviet Union, (c) any art objects left by escaping Germans were looted by Soviets and probably also organised gangs of looters, after the front moved westwards.
The German territory was smaller, but much more urbanized. 2 mio Poles lived in Eastern Poland, ~9 mio Germans in the so called "recovered territories". There were much more of everything. Towns, castles, villages, infrastructure. That most of the cities were in catastrophic conditions isn't true, according to the mentioned Polish preservationists, and that "any art objects left by escaping Germans were looted by Soviets and probably also organised gangs of looters" was against the Polish-Soviet agreement, as mentioned earlier, and isn't documented, also as mentioned earlier. I gave sources, you and the other user just claimed things... oh no wait, there was a single Wiki link, the source of every informed forum user, lol.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 06:59 PM   #748
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I gave sources, you and the other user just claimed things... oh no wait, there was a single Wiki link, the source of every informed forum user, lol.
"A Silesian Crossroads for Europe’s Displaced Books: Compensation or Prisoners of War?" Patricia Kennedy Grimsted - http://socialhistory.org/sites/defau...s/silesian.pdf

Filippov Brigade
Attached to the First Ukrainian Front, their mission was to search for cultural treasures that could be transported to the Soviet Union before the civilian administration in the area was handed over to the Poles. First assigned to the industrial city of Beuthen (now Polish Bytom), 14 km. north of Kattowitz, the brigade was attached to the Trophy Administration under Maksim Saburov, representing Stalin’s top-secret Special Committee on Reparations, which was already busy appropriating local factories and industrial goods[...] (more about Soviet Trophy Brigades in Silesia in link above)

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The German territory was smaller, but much more urbanized. 2 mio Poles lived in Eastern Poland, ~9 mio Germans in the so called "recovered territories".
According to historian Yohanan Cohen's estimate, in 1939 the population in the territories east of the Curzon Line gained via the Treaty of Riga totalled 12 million, consisting of over 5 million Ukrainians, between 3.5 and 4 million Poles, 1.5 million Belarusians, and 1.3 million Jews. During World War II, politicians gave varying estimates of the Polish population east of the Curzon line that would be affected by population transfers. Winston Churchill mentioned "3 to 4 million Poles east of the Curzon Line". Stanisław Mikołajczyk, then Prime Minister of the Polish government in exile, counted this population as 5 million.

Cities over 100k lost by Poland (not destroyed during WW2):
Lwow (population: 340k in 1939)
Wilno (215k)

Cities over 100k "won" by Poland:
Breslau (population: 630k in 1939, central part had about 70% of destruction after the war)
Stettin (383k, 65% of the city destroyed during allied air raids)

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; September 2nd, 2012 at 08:12 PM.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 07:40 PM   #749
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If you are not satisfied with those cities, you just might give em back to their rightful owners, no?

Mannheim (Germany's largest castle!)





















Florenz

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7485/fm930605a.jpg

Last edited by Odoaker; September 2nd, 2012 at 08:22 PM.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 07:43 PM   #750
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Quote:
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LOL at precious Polish art. Cities. Whatever. Your national resurrection after WWI only caused countless losses of real artsitic values of important nations. Without your existence, today the world would be brighter. Noone misses Polish "culture".
You are f....g retard.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 07:55 PM   #751
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not Polish!
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 08:02 PM   #752
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Isn't this Fürth?

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Old September 2nd, 2012, 08:05 PM   #753
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not Polish!
You sound like your fellow Hitler, Poland suffered for centuries from German aggression, now you claim that Poles are responsible for WW2 and world would be better without Poland. Without Poland Germany wouldn't be united today, since Poles had overthrown communism in Europe.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 08:15 PM   #754
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That is one epic average Pole parody Next time you better mention the pope, too!

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Florence obviously I will remove it.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 08:17 PM   #755
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What is that curious looking blob in the upper right area of the castle courtyard? Is that a deflated balloon?
Judging by the damaged buildings nearby I am guessing these aerial photos were taken during the war.

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Old September 2nd, 2012, 08:27 PM   #756
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It was the local whale. He used to live in the water reservoir tower, but during the war it was getting too dangerous for him. The Nazis were trying to hide him in the canalisation, but it turned out that the drains were just too small for Manni, how he was called

I have got no clue.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 09:43 PM   #757
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Marienburg castle, built by the Order of the German House of St. Mary (Teutonic Knights) beginning in the 13th century









Königsberg castle, also built by the Teutonic Knights (construction started in the mid-13th century)





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Old September 2nd, 2012, 09:47 PM   #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odoaker
LOL at precious Polish art. Cities. Whatever. Your national resurrection after WWI only caused countless losses of real artsitic values of important nations. Without your existence, today the world would be brighter. Noone misses Polish "culture".
I have thought that it is the threat on German cities as they were before 1945. Now it is going to be a discussion on history using the language of people whose politics caused their destruction. I do not get it. If you have someting against Poles go to Poland and fight against them! Do not trash this wonderful threat ! The guy similar to you, count Ciano wrote in his memoirs that all culture and antiquities of Central Europe (so also Germany) are poor imitations of great Italian art. If we are going to discuss in that threat comparing which culture is worse than other so maybe better to close it!
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 10:04 PM   #759
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Italian art was always admired and highly appreciated in Germany. Same with France, England, Spain and so on. But Poland? Our cities destruction caused Poland, playing the game of mad imperialists (GB). They were just as stupid as Hitler, as he again and again tried to negotiate with London, that ruthlessly sold Poland's destiny in Potsdam. And still, those nations caused unimaginable pain praise themself the most. As long as one can talk of justice, this chapter is not over.

Last edited by Odoaker; September 2nd, 2012 at 10:16 PM.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 11:43 PM   #760
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Heres a request - does anyone have any good pictures of the Bavarian Army Museum in Munich? Nowadays its the State Chancellery.

Heres a photo of it now (spot the modern additions)

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...lery-BR-1.html

This is the only photo of how it used to look I can find, anyone got more?

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