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Old September 20th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #901
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I think above all else, Konigsberg has been a complete loss in general and to all societies. Some cities, like those in Poland, live on in a new paradigm and with a new, modified or created identity but Kongisberg is completely gone. Its as if it never existed, which is probably what the communists wanted.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #902
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Königsberg

@Intervention: Number 28 could be Königsberg, but I hesitated, since it did not posses a famous or characteristic city landscape like the other 27 major cities. The castle is missing and the Börse, but thats it.

All 27 cities now changed to a new kind of identity: Breslau to Wroclaw abolishing Wilhelmian or Teutonic Architecture, not restoring typically German Neo-gotical buildings and painting all buildings with a different colour than Germans used to use.

For German cities like Berlin also a "new international" and functional style is introduced mixing classical forms with very trendy advanced styles.

Most other cities like Stuttgart the "cheap" wiederaufbau style of the fifties is still prominent there. Old buildings are not restored to their former grand style but kept slight.

Halle, Leipzig aso are moderately restoring Fassades to the old style and keep others conciously slight renovated (without their decorations).

Nowhere signs of the former Belle Epoque Style are tolerated not on ONE building. Being afraid a new interest for details may be triggered.

Pure for the "experiment" each major German city should have reconstructed ONE of the grand Hotels, Universities, theaters, Main Post Offices or Department stores to their former glory.......but no!

If looking at the former majestic Justiz Palast in Magdeburg; the grandiose Wertheim (4), Karstadt, and Tietz (2) Department stores in central Berlin, the magnificent Hauptpost buildings in Frankfurt, Karlsruhe, Köln or Dresden (2) or the characteristic central railway stations in Köln, Dortmund or Berlin; impressive opera/theatre buildings in Köln, Berlin (3) and scores of University and governmental buildings (10+) in Berlin en Leipzig; the 2 dozen churches lost in Berlin, many precious ones in Leipzig and DresdenTHEN at least ONE of each should have been rebuilt in the past 60 years. But Germans are not eager to do this. Not even the Börse in Berlin.

Only very recently in Potsdam initiatives and discussions (Germans are very good in that) are started for reconstruction of buildings.
In the other super-GEM: "Würzburg" recently some very ugly modernistic "things" were placed in the city downgrading further this already meagre rebuilt city, where real reconstructions were dearly needed.

Cities urgently needing large reconstruction plans of the 28 specified and greatly lacking architectural and historic quality are: Magdeburg (1); Mannheim (2) and Kassel (3).
I am inclined to place Berlin at the 4th place, since it still lacks its historical center.......where now a tall tower stands. Then Dresden (5) needs more than a tiny restored island as its center: it needs a broad historic ring around this center of at least 1 mile radius with buildings which give Dresden its high urban quality back. Now this ring is structured as a liveless suburb.

Last edited by Klassiker; September 20th, 2012 at 08:46 PM.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #903
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You've got a point. Why spend the money on one simple new building if you can rebuild a whole quarter of destroyed houses with it?

Maybe it is a plan to set up a organisation which funds the reconstruction of buildings
across whole Germany, for example money for the Pellerhaus in Nuremberg,
a quarter of old timber-framed houses in Hildesheim or Hannover or a palace in Berlin?
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Old September 20th, 2012, 09:50 PM   #904
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Kolberg




























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Old September 20th, 2012, 11:10 PM   #905
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Some cities are lacking here. What about Strassburg, Mühlhausen, Metz, Schlechtstadt, Zabern, Saarburg, Diedenhofen,...?
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Old September 21st, 2012, 08:35 PM   #906
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A Berlin gem I came across:

image hosted on flickr

Landesgericht, Neue Friedrichstrasse by janwillemsen, on Flickr
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Old September 21st, 2012, 10:34 PM   #907
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DDR razed those Towers and wing down in the 60-ties

Yes: this phantastic building shared the fate of all great super buildings in Germany: to survive the hell of the bombings and streetfighting, to be razed to the ground by those silly nitwits in de DDR, which by the way demolished at least another 50 surviving historism buildings in the now desolated centre of Berlin.

It was renovated the last years but like so many other remanant survivors was NOT RESTORED TO THE ORIGINAL DESIGN and the side entrance wing with great hall is now forever gone, like those 2 lovely towers.

This UGLY feat is repeated with the missing wing of the Karstadt/Polizei building in the nearby Keibler Strasse and that other great mutilated phantastic Justizpalast in Magdeburg: no restoration but an UGLY not harmonizing modernistic addiction...
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 03:53 AM   #908
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It is important to keep in mind that when these Baroque buildings were originally constructed in the 17th and 18th centuries, they were considered futuristic, progressive, and avant-garde by the contemporaries of the time. They would have perceived these buildings the way we perceive Frank Gehry buildings today or even the Bauhaus style. With that in mind, not all modern post-war buildings should be placed in bad regard because generations from now they may be viewed in the same way we view these old Baroque buildings. It just takes time for architecture to gain sentimental value.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 01:44 PM   #909
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No not 17th or 18th century, but 20th Century gems

Strykr: allmost all great German beauties were built between 1900 and 1914.

The Verkehrsministerium in München (Munich) was the largest and most impressive building of München in 1940.
This building has been razed to the ground for most of it long after the war after it was only lightly damaged. No (obvious) reconstruction was ever planned.

In Magdeburg the Justizpalast & bordering Polizei Direktion Gebäude (same style) were a huge and beautiful complex. Only lightly damaged and easily reconstructable the building has a modern filling abolishing the 2 impressive towers and entrance.

In Berlin at least 100 (!) of these examples could be given, but one of the most striking is the Justiz/Land Gericht in the Littenstrasse as pictured above.
Karstadt at Hermann Platz is another striking example that the one huge towers were not reconstructed. This seriously influences the streetsight in a negative way. Most German churches stil lack their "Laterne". A silly thing not to reconstruct them.

In Bremen on the outside stood also an impressive building, also already shown somewher above!!

And so each mayor city misses at least 1 to 5 once impressive buildings.

The Hauptpost in Karlsruhe, the Hauptpost in Frankfurt, The Hauptpost and Telegraphenamt in Dresden. The Technical University in Berlin and University in Leipzig are nothing compared to the past.

Last edited by Klassiker; September 25th, 2012 at 10:27 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 11:36 PM   #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strykr View Post
With that in mind, not all modern post-war buildings should be placed in bad regard because generations from now they may be viewed in the same way we view these old Baroque buildings.
Unlikely. A glass or concrete monstrosity will always remain glass or concrete monstrosity. Modern architecture rarely have the same aesthetic qualities as the architecture of the past.
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 12:16 PM   #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassiker View Post
Yes: this phantastic building shared the fate of all great super buildings in Germany: to survive the hell of the bombings and streetfighting, to be razed to the ground by those silly nitwits in de DDR, which by the way demolished at least another 50 surviving historism buildings in the now desolated centre of Berlin.

It was renovated the last years but like so many other remanant survivors was NOT RESTORED TO THE ORIGINAL DESIGN and the side entrance wing with great hall is now forever gone, like those 2 lovely towers.

This UGLY feat is repeated with the missing wing of the Karstadt/Polizei building in the nearby Keibler Strasse and that other great mutilated phantastic Justizpalast in Magdeburg: no restoration but an UGLY not harmonizing modernistic addiction...



It was demolished in 1968 completely ;/ They currently restored only a smaller part of the complex...
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 04:55 PM   #912
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Königsberg Cathedral














(source)

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Old September 23rd, 2012, 08:13 PM   #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassiker View Post
(...) and University in Leipzig are nothing compared to the past.


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Old September 23rd, 2012, 11:41 PM   #914
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It's actually not so bad... but it is.
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 11:47 PM   #915
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it's very bad; it's an almost completely desacralized and deformed attempt to rebuild the university church (st pauli) and even that was too much for the current university completely oblivious to its history and tradition, just like the whole of saxony.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 12:29 AM   #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabbes View Post
it's very bad; it's an almost completely desacralized and deformed attempt to rebuild the university church (st pauli) and even that was too much for the current university completely oblivious to its history and tradition, just like the whole of saxony.
As we can see in some pictures I posted before, the church only lost some ornamentation, i.e. neogotic pinnacles added in the late-19th century. Both the church and the university survived the war and still, the Communists decided to blow it up in the 1960s.

The new building is maybe one of the ugliest examples of modern architecture I've ever seen.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 02:41 AM   #917
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Quote:
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The new building is maybe one of the ugliest examples of modern architecture I've ever seen.
Have you seen it live? I think in person it's quite an impressive and good looking building. It's just that you shouldn't think about the loss of the old buildings all the time.

I was in favor of the reconstruction as well. But I have to admit, the modern version turned out really well.
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Old September 24th, 2012, 06:01 AM   #918
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I was in favor of the reconstruction as well. But I have to admit, the modern version turned out really well.
+1
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Old September 25th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #919
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One of the very few modern substitutes that has some value

I judge the modern substitute of the University and Church one of the very few examples that modernistic architecture is at par with its historic predecessor. In allmost all other instances in Germany the modernistic "filling" is definitely inferior to the historic building, which apart from having more details also has far more expression of beauty and "richness" .

So while the Neues Rathaus in Dresden was in a way rebuilt after the war many important fassade details, especially the windows, were left out on the Fassade and the roofs lacks the saddle turrets, furthermore the "patina" was also gone because the new stone was much lighter.
This new southern and eastern fassades reminds me of Fascist building fassades from before the 2nd WW, where the building was from before the 1st WW.

This Neues Rathaus belong with their counterparts in Leipzig, Hannover and Hamburg to the 4 most impressive in Germany.
Kassel and Wuppertal-Barmen also had once beautiful Rathauses, which are nowadays shadows of their past, mostly because the Wings were demolished and the steep roofs and typically high and monumental "Giebels" were removed.

Other University victims of WW2 and ensuing politics not to resconstruct them to former glory are: Berlin: Technical University, Darmstadt and Aachen. Mostly the Towers were not rebuilt or spires lowered or simplified or simply left out: Lukas Kirche and Parochial Kirche: both still have no spires and both looking odd!!

Last edited by Klassiker; September 25th, 2012 at 10:49 PM.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 09:06 PM   #920
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I think that if Berlin wasn't destroyed,it would be the most beautiful city in europe,even more beautiful than Paris.
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