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Old April 5th, 2017, 05:24 PM   #1841
mhjo
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Theallies would never stop bombing Berlin, since this was the only city where Hitler himself woud see,hear and feel the war.

The only open city I know of is Halle
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Old April 5th, 2017, 07:56 PM   #1842
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No city in Germany was officially declared "open". Cities and towns with very low degree of destruction were handed over either by surrendering military commanders or, after they retreated, by german civil officials i.e. mayors or local prominents like Graf Luckner in Halle. All of that was abosutely forbidden and illegal, punished almost certainly by death. So in most cases, people which were willing to avoid destruction had to wait until the SS or fanatic Wehrmacht unist left the city until they could offer surrender to allied forces. There are many reported cases where allied forces didn't enter cities as fast as expected and civillians or military commanders willing to hand over the city where killed by returning SS or Wehrmacht forces for ignoring orders.
That happened for example in the city of Gotha near Erfurt. Gotha's Kampfkommandant Josef von Gadolla capitulated to american forces in order to avoid further damage to the city. He was captured by other Wehrmacht units and shot the following day.

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Old April 5th, 2017, 09:34 PM   #1843
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these photos make me really sad. Beautiful architecture that is lost, but one day I hope to see so many beautiful old buildings back. Get rid of those 60s and 70s buildings first and replace it with its old form, or only the facade and not something modern made out of glass.
Ii do agree. All this destruction happened only 75 years ago yet it seems so crazy right now.
could not they see that everything would have been destroyed?
how could german be so blind and oblivious of the consequences of their crazy and inhuman acts?
how an entire nation - where people everyday could see all the beautiful churches and buildings - can decide to go and avail such a craziness as the National-sozialistische deutsche Arbeiterpartei it still amazes me.
I guess we have to still be vigil today.

Last edited by marziano; April 5th, 2017 at 09:44 PM.
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Old April 5th, 2017, 10:50 PM   #1844
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Ii do agree. All this destruction happened only 75 years ago yet it seems so crazy right now.
could not they see that everything would have been destroyed?
how could german be so blind and oblivious of the consequences of their crazy and inhuman acts?
how an entire nation - where people everyday could see all the beautiful churches and buildings - can decide to go and avail such a craziness as the National-sozialistische deutsche Arbeiterpartei it still amazes me.
I guess we have to still be vigil today.
Except we're not being very good at it, are we?

Fact is, the point at which the desire--on both sides in a war--to utterly and completely destroy the opponent comes a long time after each side has expressed legitimate complaints or set of issues. Due to politics, crooked greed, lack of reason and compromise, the anger that once could have been mediated, boils to a point where politicians lose all sense of control. By that time, citizens have little to say, and involved governments all have tinge of military dictatorship overtones. No side in conflagrations such as WWI and WWII are sin-free.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 10:21 AM   #1845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marziano View Post
could not they see that everything would have been destroyed?
how could german be so blind and oblivious of the consequences of their crazy and inhuman acts?
how an entire nation - where people everyday could see all the beautiful churches and buildings - can decide to go and avail such a craziness as the National-sozialistische deutsche Arbeiterpartei it still amazes me.
I guess we have to still be vigil today.
People have avery short memory it seams. History repeats itself every few decades and we are at an changing point right now. Look at the rise of Fascism in USA, Turkey and Russia etc. and who they blame... Germany is once again becoming a center of hatred for other nations and those fascist AFD idiots just spill more oil in the fire...
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:05 PM   #1846
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Please keep politics out of this thread, and especially this non-informed AfD-bashing! Should rather take care about islamists, left-wing idiots (Blockupy, uncountable attacks on not left politicians and supporters), opinion fascism and Merkel's democracy damaging Alternativlosigkeit than about a party of former CDU and FDP members.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 04:50 PM   #1847
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see? People have short memories and only seemingly get what destroyed them after it is already over. Thanks for being an excellent example to display, Rohne.
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Neotradtional Architecture in Germany

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Old April 6th, 2017, 05:30 PM   #1848
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Actually, what is visible is the unfortunate inability for those who don't share the same views to consider alternate views as valid. That's what leading to the fascist bubble in America. The 'shut them up' and 'throw them out' crowd is quite willing to adopt fascist tactics 'when necessary'. Seems we heard that excuse before....
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Old April 6th, 2017, 06:00 PM   #1849
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Yup. National socialists came, as the name already implies, from socialist worker's movements. After all, both extremist groups fuel the same autocratic tendencies since over a century now. And both need the other group to "legitimate" all their crap. It's so frustrating people still fall for either of them...

Anyway, let's get back to historical images, please share more!
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Old April 7th, 2017, 07:02 PM   #1850
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socialist workers' movements were heavily backed by Russia then as right wing movements are backed by Russia now, purpose is the same - destabilization of Europe and expansion of Russia. same dynamic and same destructive result, I hope not, we are only just rebuilding Europe. Extremism from either end only leads to death and destruction, not a better world for whichever selfish master race we claim to belong to.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old April 8th, 2017, 11:38 AM   #1851
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More photos, less policy please. This is fantastic thread, showing lost beauty of not (IMHO) only german but common european cultural heritage.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 10:16 PM   #1852
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sorry I did not mean to be politic at all: I just wanted to underline the sheer contrast - the huge hiatus - within ourselves (myself included) as human beings.
you wake up everyday in TOWN like those (and not in a slum) yet this means nothing.
as my favourite latin sentences says: video meliora proboque, deteriora sequor.

anyway those pictures makes me wanna go back to see berlin again, now. but NOT in february! aahaha!
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Old April 14th, 2017, 05:05 PM   #1853
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I accidentally found some photos taken by Walter Genewein in 1944 in Breslau. The interesting fact is that, they're in color. Unfortunately higher resolution costs 25 euros per picture, so I can post just the thumbnails.

Market Square:








University:


Cathedral and Sand Islands:
















Centennial hall complex:




Schweidnitzer Strasse:




Market hall:


Kaiser Bruecke:






Rest can be found here: http://www.stockclassics.com/product...slau&category=

This thread is about photos, but I hope you won't mind if I post movies, especially if they are in color too

Some shots from Cathedral Island, southern districts and freshly opened Autobahn from Berlin:


This one is particularly interesting. It comes from a honeymoon trip on the river Oder. You can see shots from Ratibor, Oppeln, Brieg, Breslau, Frankfurt, Stettin and some smaller towns:


Do you know other prewar color movies from German cities? I'd love to see one from Nuremberg, but I just found films from nazi rallies, which don''t show the city.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 06:45 PM   #1854
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Breslau (Wroclaw) is still beautiful. The market square was rebuildt after the war in pre-war fashion. Go visit!
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Old May 6th, 2017, 11:02 PM   #1855
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Don't know if my question is fitting for this thread, but I'll ask anyway. Which city, Dresden, or Munich, was more culturally and architecturally valuable before the WW2? Nowadays Munich seems to be the better one, but before it was destroyed, Dresden was known as one of the most beautiful cities in the world, although I'm not sure if its churches, palaces and other buildings were comparable to Munich's. Thanks in advance.
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Old May 7th, 2017, 12:43 AM   #1856
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good question
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old May 7th, 2017, 02:08 AM   #1857
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I am not a specialist in German history (nor a German myself), but I feel that it's not necessarily the case that one city was more significant than the other. One of the reasons why going into the 20th century Germany had a lot of beautiful and significant medium and large cities is because it developed over many centuries as a very fragmented network of small states or city-states (this also applies to Italy). Of course each state needed to boast at least a major city with beautiful or distinct architecture, and more prosperous and larger states often had the best to offer. Bavaria and Saxony were probably the most important and most prosperous states after Prussia, so naturally their capitals (Munich and Dresden) were both garnished with palaces, gardens, city edifices etc. Perhaps Dresden was more dominant in Saxony than Munich was in Bavaria and thus received more attention from the Saxon monarchs, but my guess is that they were both roughly equal in cultural significance before the war.
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Old May 7th, 2017, 04:37 AM   #1858
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While I'd tend to agree with emperormadness, I'd say Dresden had more of a refined cultural presence than Munich did, to the extent that the Nazis were able to use it to mask its wartime industry (until 1944/45 at least).

Dresden was also a bourgeoise playground, which contributes to its reputation.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Goebbels, an otherwise stern and emotionless man, wept for 20 minutes upon hearing of Dresden's destruction.
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Old May 7th, 2017, 05:03 AM   #1859
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Rothenburg - Plönlein
Famous scene. Still there!

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Old May 7th, 2017, 04:13 PM   #1860
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Regarding the comparison between Dresden and Munich pre-war, I have a tourist book from the 1930s that features the author's personal travels through what he claims (for the time) were the main must-sees of Germany. The impression from this book is that Munich was richer in terms of large scale cultural icons of architecture and art, but that Dresden was perhaps a finer jewel on a smaller scale.
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