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Old June 2nd, 2017, 04:14 AM   #1921
keepthepast
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I didn't say Poznan was historically German in the proper sense, only that whatever traces they left were likely removed in the reconstruction phases. And traces definitely did exist. Poznan had a strong German minority (and thus influence) since the Middle Ages, and was absorbed by Prussia in the 1840s. Policies of Germanisation, especially after unification in 1870, resulted in a marked increase in the German population. I think I've read somewhere that towards the end of the 19th century, the Germans made up more than 50% of Poznan's population. In the rapid growth of the industrial period, the German influence definitely would have shown, and very probably would have been removed after WWII.
.
To me, given the context of this architectural site and this thread focused on German architecture pre WWII, it seems perfectly correct to say that Posen was a historic German city since the 125 years of German rule and leadership influence was the period during which the architecture and cityscape we are reminiscing about was designed, created, and built. For example, none of these photos/images reflect pre 1793 structures, and almost all views were well in place by 1918--when Posen was German.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 10:20 AM   #1922
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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
To me, given the context of this architectural site and this thread focused on German architecture pre WWII, it seems perfectly correct to say that Posen was a historic German city since the 125 years of German rule and leadership influence was the period during which the architecture and cityscape we are reminiscing about was designed, created, and built. For example, none of these photos/images reflect pre 1793 structures, and almost all views were well in place by 1918--when Posen was German.
Poznań was taken by Prussia along with the rest of Greater Poland by the end of 18th Century when Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was partitioned by Prussia, Russia and Austria. Nevertheless it had continued to serve as one of centres of Polish culture and politics for the whole period of partitions (1795-1918). Despite the fact that the German presence in Poznań in that time is indisputable - it does not mean that the city, along with Greater Poland (Wielkopolska in Polish, not Posen Provinz), was German in any other sense than administrative and political adherence. That's all. Actually thanks to the work of Greater Poland's activists, intellectuals and aristocrats the land had not been entirely germanised and one of victorius uprisings against the German rule there started in Poznań (the Greater Poland uprising) - that speaks volumes about the German nature of the city.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 10:23 AM   #1923
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Some uplifting news I've only just come across from Kaliningrad (formerly Königsberg):

They're reconstructing the 'New Synogogue', destroyed in 1938 during Kristallnacht!

Before 1938:



Computer visualisation of reconstruction:



An amazing building right on the waterfront, it will do wonders for the cityscape. From what I can gather, construction has already begun and should be finished later this year, maybe early next year. With on again off again plans to reconstruct the Schloss and surrounds as well, Kaliningrad is a city to watch
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 11:07 AM   #1924
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Nevertheless it had continued to serve as one of centres of Polish culture and politics for the whole period of partitions (1795-1918).
Forgot about the Duchy of Warsaw?

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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Recently, I read "The Duchy of Warsaw, 1807-1815: A Napoleonic Outpost in Central Europe" by Jaroslaw Czubaty. It seems that the Duchy of Warsaw was most ethnically homogeneous Polish state since the Piasts' Poland. According to the census of 1810, the decided majority (83%) of the 4,334,000 inhabitants of the Duchy of Warsaw were ethnic Poles.

Area: 157,194 km²
Total population (1810): 4,334,00
Poles: 83%
Jews: 7%
Germans: 6%
Lithuanians and Ruthenians: 4%

The overwhelming majority of the population were Roman Catholics. Among the remaining religious and confessional groups, the most prominent, apart from Jews, were Lutherans (8.3%). In a country that was overwhelmingly rural, the greatest concentrations of urban population, amounting to 18.6% of the whole, were located in Warsaw, Poznan and Bydgoszcz Departments. In these departments the urban population was 24% to 25.5%. Main cities of the Duchy were Warsaw, Poznan, Kalisz, Torun, Lublin, Krakow and Sandomierz.

Map of the Duchy of Warsaw (1811)

Source

10 groszy coin (minted in the Duchy of Warsaw)


"Der Telegraph" (1806) about organising Polish troops, e.g. from a former Pomeranian voivodeship by Trapczynski and Malbork/Marienburg voivodeship by Lipinski.


In 1812, the Duchy of Warsaw put into the field an army of nearly 100,000 soldiers, more than the Army of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth ever numbered.


A selection of paintings showing the events of 1806-1809 (Krakow, Torun, Gdansk and Poznan)





On 6 November 1806, generals Dabrowski and Wybicki arrived in Poznan, enthusiastically greeted by locals singing "Poland Is Not Yet Lost". "Poland Is Not Yet Lost" was one of the most popular patriotic songs in the duchy, stopping short of becoming that entity's national anthem.

Triumphal gate designed by Jakub Kubicki erected in 1809 (Warsaw)


List of the Sejm members in 1811















Source

First session of Central Government established by Poles in Galicia (1809)

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Galicia was not incorporated into the Duchy of Warsaw in spite of local support.

The land of my other half's ancestors, ethnocultural region known as Kociewie, as well as other parts of Eastern Pomerania were under Polish administration between 1806 and 1807. These territories were ceded to Prussia under the terms of the treaty of Tilsit (1807).

An interesting letter...


...and...


...and one more...


...and about Silesia...

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Old June 2nd, 2017, 11:58 AM   #1925
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Some uplifting news I've only just come across from Kaliningrad (formerly Königsberg):

They're reconstructing the 'New Synogogue', destroyed in 1938 during Kristallnacht!
Awesome! Where did you find out about this?
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 12:10 PM   #1926
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Awesome! Where did you find out about this?
I was trying to find more recent information about the initiative to reconstruct the Schloss in Kaliningrad, and came across the computer visualisation. I did a double-take because of the quality of the animation and was led to an article (in German) on the subject.

Construction is going ahead undeterred, in defiance of the fact that the initial cornerstone was vandalised with Nazi insignia I'm sure the building will be a wonderful testament to the resilience and determination of the Jewish community in Russia
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 02:39 PM   #1927
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National pride is understandable, but Polish nationalism seems narrow-viewed as well as reactionary.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 03:50 PM   #1928
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http://cyfrowe.mnw.art.pl/dmuseion/d...data?id=32700#
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 05:54 PM   #1929
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National pride is understandable, but Polish nationalism seems narrow-viewed as well as reactionary.
Yes, I agree, among those reactionary elements this is the result of 200 years of fighting to staying alive. Hopefully the day is coming when we can put away the nationalistic sabres. To be fair some of your comments smack of German superiority, maybe it's the medium and of course Germans are indeed very accomplished and should be proud, but you seem more aggressively so.

But also don't confuse the present political regime with the average Pole. They got into power and continue to be in power because of social welfare spending in a country where despite obvious improvements thanks in large part to the EU over the last 13 years, life for the average Pole has been a struggle.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 10:31 PM   #1930
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Posen has another german element apart from its german minority and its prussian time. The city with its regular shape and central market square is a result of granting german law (Magdeburg law). Which lead to a vast extention of the already existing polish settlement around the cathedral.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 11:01 PM   #1931
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an expanded version (including civil laws) of "settlement with German law" was adopted in the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth including Poznan. The form of urban planning adopted was based on the ancient Roman model for a military camp, the castra with a principia (square) in the middle bisected by a via principalis. Everyone borrows and builds on other ideas and no one can really take full credit.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 12:28 AM   #1932
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Königsberg









...



















Bildindex / DeutscheFotothek
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 01:16 AM   #1933
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Königsberg























Bildindex / DF
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 01:50 AM   #1934
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Szczecin



































Bildindex / DF
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 10:10 AM   #1935
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Quote:
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National pride is understandable, but Polish nationalism seems narrow-viewed as well as reactionary.
It's not pride nor nationalism - merely fidelity to historical truth. No one is questioning the presence of Germans in Polish cities and towns since the middle-ages, as much as i.e. Jews in German medieval cities or Greeks in Asia Minor etc. etc. In Middle-Ages nationality didn;t count that much - and those German city dwellers were usually loyal subjects of Polish dukes and kings, unless they rebelled like in Cracow in 1311 (rebellion of mayor Albert). In the end Albert was severely punished by the future king Władysław the Elbow-high - but even then his rebellion didn;t have any nationalistic background - mayor Albert just wanted to change allegiance from the Piast house to the Czech house of Luxembourgs.

So - to sum up - most Poles are neither nationalistic nor narrow-minded. To the contrary - in 16th and 17th Centuries Poland was part of multi-national and multi religious the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - and we are quite pride of its achievements. It's suffice to say that if the Commonwealth would not had been partitioned - the rise of German nationalism and militarism would never happened. Btw - the East Prussia, or rather the Ducal Prussia was created at Polish fiefdom.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 05:09 PM   #1936
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More about the reconstruction of the 'New Synagogue' in Kaliningrad if anyone is interested:

From what I can gather, they're not only reconstructing the synagogue, but also part of the old Jewish quarter that surrounded it.

A picture of the ensemble before the war:



A supposed section of the construction plan for the new quarter, from a close German affiliate group of the project organiser:



Now, the thing is, there appears to be some confusion somewhere. While this 'construction plan' says the final building will be 47m high (its original length), another person linked to the project says the new synagogue will only be 37 meters high because of building regulations imposed by the city council. This same person also said there were disputes about the Jewish orphanage (attached to the synagogue on the left side in the historical image), which survived the war and is a momunent. Apparently, despite the fact the two buildings were originally side by side, monument regulations won't allow the synagogue to be within a certain distance of the orphanage, and so a gap will exist.

[IMG]http://image.************.com/z/stock-photo-kaliningrad-russia-january-the-building-of-the-jewish-orphanage-in-the-evening-school-291263660.jpg[/IMG]

The Jewish orphanage today. Evidently its original roof was blown off, but the construction plan shows it with restored roof, so again some uncertainty with what is happening here. Other alterations (whether purposeful or in the restoration process) are righted as well – such as the alignment and shape of certain windows.

The issue is both of these sources are relatively recent, and I'm unable to find information that proves one over the other.

We'll have to wait and see.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 05:10 PM   #1937
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Poles are not afraid to uncover the German influences in our past in places like Wroclaw and elsewhere nor are we troubled by German influences today.



thanks MHL
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 08:29 PM   #1938
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Prussians in Poznan (similarly to what Austrians did in Krakow) decided to destroy all the city's defensive walls and towers. The wall was 1725 meters long, 7 meters high and in some areas as much as 11 meters deep.

Very little was left after that destruction but the Germans again destroyed any remains in WWII !



Small part of it was rebuilt few years ago.

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Old June 4th, 2017, 12:43 AM   #1939
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So? Many cities decided to demolish all or most parts of their traditional city defence in the 19th century because the became useless and hindered the expanding cities. But in fact, the Prussians made Posen to one of their most important modern fortresses.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 02:13 AM   #1940
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So? Many cities decided to demolish all or most parts of their traditional city defence in the 19th century because the became useless and hindered the expanding cities. But in fact, the Prussians made Posen to one of their most important modern fortresses.
Yes, this is true. There's a reason so few cities have old city walls anymore. These were usually converted to the inner-city Rings we see today.

I don't really see how the demolition of the old city walls (before WWII) could be construed to be a spiteful jab at polish heritage.

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