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Old November 26th, 2016, 06:58 AM   #1
DS86
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Question Ringsend Bus Depot / South Dock Road

Does anybody know of any proposals either past or present for these two locations? I can see the need for a bus depot of course, but does it still have to be at this location with the way the Grand Canal Dock area has developed over the past 10-15 years? It seems to be a major stumbling block in achieving a continuous wall of buildings facing north of the Millennium Tower facing the water.

This area of the dock, particularly with the Reflector and Capital Dock in the works would look much better without this (at least from the perspective of the built up area around it) missing tooth in the urban fabric of this area. And surely it would not be a problem for Dublin Bus, they would be more than compensated given that this would have to be one of the most expensive pieces of property in the city centre.






The area around South Dock Road also seems to have potential, not least been just across the water from Capital Dock. Though it would seem a little awkward to develop in between the areas around the bodies of water where the ship is currently moored.



I feel as if Grand Canal Dock will never live up to it's full potential as an urban space with a waterfront bus depot and a derelict site. It would be interesting to know what could be in the works for these two central sites.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 11:06 AM   #2
Joe King
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I haven't heard anything about the bus depot and I agree it should be redeveloped in some way. Unlike some of Dublin Bus' other city centre locations, it may be possible to relocate this depot - nearer the port, say - without impacting on the efficiency of the bus service. I'd be surprised if they're not looking at this as that must be one of the most valuable sites in the city right now.

Regarding the other site at South Dock Road, I recall it was mooted that there would be a small residential tower (8-stories IIRC) and a community centre there. One of the issues there is that DCC and Waterways Ireland haven't yet come up with any concrete proposals for the two surviving graving docks. Reports have suggested that one will be fully restored with lock gates etc. as a sort of open air industrial museum (sort of similar to the way the Diving Bell has been preserved on SJR Quay) and the other turned into an outdoor event space for use in the summer. The development of that area will also entail repairing and restoring the lock gates that connect the canal to the mouth of the Dodder.

The third graving dock, which has been filled in, is used as a ramp for access to the canal by the Viking Splash tours, so presume they would have to be accommodated somehow in any development.

Last edited by Joe King; November 26th, 2016 at 12:56 PM.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 12:27 PM   #3
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I remember there was a comment from Dublin Bus management about the site saying it was an active bus depot and there were no plans to change that. Of course that was 2 or 3 years ago, the attitude may change if land prices continue to rise. It is a fantastic location. I think the SDZ only allows the usual 7-8 storey blocks unfortunately.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 11:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS86 View Post
This area of the dock, particularly with the Reflector and Capital Dock in the works would look much better without this (at least from the perspective of the built up area around it) missing tooth in the urban fabric of this area.
Maybe they are holding out until some sanity regarding allowed heights prevails and they can treble the value of the site?
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Old November 27th, 2016, 01:00 PM   #5
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Maybe they are holding out until some sanity regarding allowed heights prevails and they can treble the value of the site?
That's a good point. Maybe we should hope the site isn't sold and developed until the rest of the docklands are built out.

The remaining possible development sites like this one will then have a lot of pressures on them to go taller.

A tower here would have a good aspect too, casting a shadow only over the Grand Canal Basin.
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Old November 28th, 2016, 02:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Johnson View Post
I remember there was a comment from Dublin Bus management about the site saying it was an active bus depot and there were no plans to change that.
I've never understood why Dublin Bus retain Ringsend garage. Most of the routes operated by buses based there serve areas like Tallaght, Templeogue and Blessington. AFAIK only 2 of those routes actually pass the garage, so there a significant amount of positioning to get a bus from Ringsend to (say) Ballyknockan in Wicklow for morning journey into Dublin.
It would seem more efficient to have a garage further out in the SW suburbs and to sell the Ringsend site.
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Old December 6th, 2016, 12:28 PM   #7
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"Air Rights" this is something we could apply to a lot of state owned sites across the city, the Irishrail land leading into Dublin port huge site in great location, this could also apply to the bus Depot.

http://www.independent.ie/business/c...-35257310.html
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Old December 10th, 2016, 10:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmc8036 View Post
"Air Rights" this is something we could apply to a lot of state owned sites across the city, the Irishrail land leading into Dublin port huge site in great location, this could also apply to the bus Depot.

http://www.independent.ie/business/c...-35257310.html
Most of the CIE lands coming towards Dublin Port already have plans that involve a lot more than just air rights - although the Connolly ones are the next major one to have any chance of going ahead as they are moving the offices in the way. Tara already has a plan to build over the tracks. Pearse - as the oldest extant commuter railway station in the world - is unlikely to have such development allowed.

But yes, all the city bus depots could be considered for this. It is not complicated for the ground floor to be high enough for that use; and the street frontage is already a bus depot so its not like we're losing anything there. Was in Tallinn two weeks ago and the city bus station is under a shopping centre - but they use bendibuses instead so less height needed

DB need to retain some city depots but a higher number of buses could be stored overnight outside the city with micro-depots in suburbs - lockup yard and basic toilet/kitchen facilities; which would also reduce the number of odd short runs at each end of the day.
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Old December 11th, 2016, 11:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmc8036 View Post
"Air Rights" this is something we could apply to a lot of state owned sites across the city, the Irishrail land leading into Dublin port huge site in great location, this could also apply to the bus Depot.

http://www.independent.ie/business/c...-35257310.html
There is already an example of this in Dundrum where the "Balally" Luas stop has 7 story office and apartment blocks built over it.
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Old December 12th, 2016, 12:56 AM   #10
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There is already an example of this in Dundrum where the "Balally" Luas stop has 7 story office and apartment blocks built over it.
That's not quite true - the entire stop is in fact open to the air, even though it's below ground! It is surrounded by those blocks though, and the Park and Ride car park has them above it.
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Old December 13th, 2016, 03:10 AM   #11
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That's not quite true - the entire stop is in fact open to the air, even though it's below ground! It is surrounded by those blocks though, and the Park and Ride car park has them above it.
The lines into the stop from both directions (old Harcourt St railway line) and a portion of the actual stop are now under the new buildings - no real reason they couldn't have covered the bit in the middle.
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Old December 15th, 2016, 09:02 PM   #12
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Not sure whether to post this here on the main Docklands SDZ thread. Irish Times is reporting on a campaign for the preservation of the graving docks on the Grand Canal Dock.

Minister urged to save key piece of Grand Canal basin.

Quote:
The Inland Waterways Association of Ireland (IWAI) and the Docklands Business Forum have initiated a petition this week which asks Ms Humphreys to ensure the basin’s lock gates and graving docks for ships are “restored, preserved and reused” for community gain.
The two groups believes Waterways Ireland wants to sell the graving docks site for further high rise development on the Liffey mouth.
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Waterways Ireland said it could not comment on the petition, but stated recently that it was “currently developing options” for the area known as city block 19, including the graving docks, to meet strategic development zone requirements.
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Old December 15th, 2016, 10:02 PM   #13
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The two groups believes Waterways Ireland wants to sell the graving docks site for further high rise development on the Liffey mouth.
where is the existing high rise?
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Old December 16th, 2016, 12:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cian View Post
Most of the CIE lands coming towards Dublin Port already have plans that involve a lot more than just air rights - although the Connolly ones are the next major one to have any chance of going ahead as they are moving the offices in the way. Tara already has a plan to build over the tracks. Pearse - as the oldest extant commuter railway station in the world - is unlikely to have such development allowed.

But yes, all the city bus depots could be considered for this. It is not complicated for the ground floor to be high enough for that use; and the street frontage is already a bus depot so its not like we're losing anything there. Was in Tallinn two weeks ago and the city bus station is under a shopping centre - but they use bendibuses instead so less height needed

DB need to retain some city depots but a higher number of buses could be stored overnight outside the city with micro-depots in suburbs - lockup yard and basic toilet/kitchen facilities; which would also reduce the number of odd short runs at each end of the day.


I was referring to the areas highlighted in picture above, not aware of any plans for these sites, either which way there are loads of sites in excellent locations where "Air Rights" could apply.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 01:30 AM   #15
Joe King
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Originally Posted by mmc8036 View Post

I was referring to the areas highlighted in picture above, not aware of any plans for these sites, either which way there are loads of sites in excellent locations where "Air Rights" could apply.
Area on the left is reserved for the DART Underground tunnel (as is the old Spencer Dock station on North Wall Quay). If/when DU is completed, presumably the question of what could be built above these would be addressed then but not before.

I suspect a time is going to come very soon when Irish Rail will bite the bullet and get out of rail freight altogether. If so, the marshalling yard, which is in the area highlighted on the right would presumably be sold.

Area above the marshalling yard highlighted in green is part of the protected corridor for the eastern bypass.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 01:33 PM   #16
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Not sure whether to post this here on the main Docklands SDZ thread. Irish Times is reporting on a campaign for the preservation of the graving docks on the Grand Canal Dock.

Minister urged to save key piece of Grand Canal basin.
The picture included in the article shows that IWI also does not give half a shit about those Georgian graving docks...

There is no reason why historic things can't be preserved and highlighted in redevelopment plans.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 04:20 PM   #17
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Some of the area in red there is the old Rathbornes site and not CIE.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 07:53 PM   #18
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hopefully craggy island parochial house also gets leveled soon enough!
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